Quantcast

X-15 coming soon

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

Apogee Components

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2020
Messages
56
Reaction score
74
We have the materials in to make more, and are working hard on it as we speak. We will be posting more inventory tonight or first thing tomorrow.
 

kuririn

BARGeezer
TRF Supporter
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
5,460
Reaction score
3,052
Location
Hawaii
More observations:
Rear fins and wings are tacked on with thick CA per instructions.
Upper rudder is tacked on with wood glue.
Lower rudder and launch lugs to follow.
Fillets will be wood glue for the rudders and launch lugs, epoxy for the wings and rear fin joints with the fairings.
I wish there was a way to do internal fillets for the fin tang root chords where they connect to the airframe.
Seems like a weak point to me, buttering the tang root with thick CA strikes me as hit or miss.
1111200509[1].jpg

Laters.
 

neil_w

Marginally Stable
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 14, 2015
Messages
10,670
Reaction score
3,660
Location
Northern NJ
More observations:
Rear fins and wings are tacked on with thick CA per instructions.
Upper rudder is tacked on with wood glue.
Lower rudder and launch lugs to follow.
Fillets will be wood glue for the rudders and launch lugs, epoxy for the wings and rear fin joints with the fairings.
I wish there was a way to do internal fillets for the fin tang root chords where they connect to the airframe.
Seems like a weak point to me, buttering the tang root with thick CA strikes me as hit or miss.
View attachment 437962
Laters.
What about medium CA fillets on the outside? That's what I did on my Accur8 Ragnarok; it flowed in and seemed to seal up the joints pretty nicely. Different situation on this rocket but maybe still would work.
 

kuririn

BARGeezer
TRF Supporter
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
5,460
Reaction score
3,052
Location
Hawaii
What about medium CA fillets on the outside? That's what I did on my Accur8 Ragnarok; it flowed in and seemed to seal up the joints pretty nicely. Different situation on this rocket but maybe still would work.
Might work if I had cut the slots wider, but they are cut narrow and tight.
Don't think the glue would flow in there.
We shall see.
BTW the Tamiya putty came in a few days ago.
Used it to smooth the fairing seams.
Creamy, spreads easily, sands well, longer working time than Squadron putty.
Great stuff.
 

neil_w

Marginally Stable
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 14, 2015
Messages
10,670
Reaction score
3,660
Location
Northern NJ
BTW the Tamiya putty came in a few days ago.
Used it to smooth the fairing seams.
Creamy, spreads easily, sands well, longer working time than Squadron putty.
Great stuff.
Which variety? I have a tube of the white and find it hard to work with.
 

kuririn

BARGeezer
TRF Supporter
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
5,460
Reaction score
3,052
Location
Hawaii
I also have the white.
Maybe yours is dried out a bit?
Mines is smooth and creamy.
I notice my Squadron green started creamy but became harder in the tube over time.
Now I have to get the contouring tools.
Been using my finger.
Heh.
 

neil_w

Marginally Stable
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jul 14, 2015
Messages
10,670
Reaction score
3,660
Location
Northern NJ
I find it marshmellowy and sticky, hard to control. And super-smelly. Maybe I just need to practice with it more.
 

afadeev

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Sep 21, 2017
Messages
1,500
Reaction score
722
I'm putting this together now, but no build thread since Apogee has their series of build videos ongoing for this.
Please don't shy away from doing a build thread, or at least sharing building notes in this one.
That's a useful feedback loop for the manufacturer to learn about fabrication variances that creep-up during the production cycle!
Also useful for other folks to hear about improvements on the baseline build instructions.

I find it marshmellowy and sticky, hard to control. And super-smelly. Maybe I just need to practice with it more.
Mine had the consistency of tooth paste, and was super easy to spread evenly with a finger, as long as you wet the finger first.
Admittedly, that was with a brand new tube, and the last time I used it was about 9 months ago. It may dry-up, over time.
My tube of 3M 907 glazing putty did just that (cheaper to use in scale, but smellier), and I threw the old one (1/3 full) out and ordered a new one just yesterday.
 

JLP1

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Feb 1, 2019
Messages
100
Reaction score
100
Looks Good Kuririn, great info Thanks I'm taking notes haven't started mine yet.
 

ghostfather

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Mar 28, 2018
Messages
151
Reaction score
81
Saw the back in stock mail this morning. Got one !
 

markschnell

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
299
Reaction score
144
Location
Marion, Indiana
8. The plastic on the back end of the fairings is very thin and splits easily. Use short strokes to trim as per the video.

Great observations @kuririn I totally agree with you on #8. Not only was mine super thin too, but one of them was a bit smooshed. Not bad enough to contact Apogee for a replacement, since it would still be too thin even if they sent me another one. I think I'll cut a piece of the extra plastic from the vacuum formed sheet and glue it to the inside of the fairing where it is so thin. I'm afraid it will keep getting more crinkled over time if I don't do something to fix it.

I also agree with your concern about the CA to glue up the parts inside the fairings. That does seem to be a very weak point, especially for such a heavy model. The epoxy fillet they call for between the fairing and the balsa might be a strong one, but a solid bonk on the wings or fins at landing could break the fairing and fin/wing loose from the body tube.

I know they have some brilliant people at Apogee, but there has to be a better way to do this than trusting CA with that much.
 
Last edited:

kuririn

BARGeezer
TRF Supporter
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
5,460
Reaction score
3,052
Location
Hawaii
I'm out of town so I don't have the model in front of me to check this, but would the jig help me to get the wings and tail pieces in the right spot without the fairing being there?
Short answer, it could but how would you get the fairings on if you glue the wings and rear fins on first?
Also the depth of the tangs will need to be adjusted (sanded) so that the wing/fin and fairing surfaces are flush. Need to do that with the fairings on.
In hindsight, perhaps a mini syringe and epoxy could be used to lay down a bead on the glue line through the fairing slot. However the rear fins are canted at an angle so the glue line is not perpendicular to the slot, complicating things.
Another idea I had was opening the rear of the fairing where the thin plastic is and running internal epoxy fillets. Would be difficult, limited space and you would need a long extension. Would also add weight.
Or just locking everything together with expanding foam glue.. Again adds weight.
And I'm probably overthinking this and it's overkill. :dontknow:
Laters.
 
Last edited:

markschnell

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
299
Reaction score
144
Location
Marion, Indiana
Short answer, it could but how would you get the fairings on if you glue the wings and rear fins on first?
Duh, like I said I'm out of town and made the post without thinking that through. I think I'll edit that part of my earlier post. Still, there has to be a better way.
 

SkyFire

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2020
Messages
405
Reaction score
951
Location
Tucson, AZ
A good way to strengthen plastic parts is with thin fiberglass cloth. Lay the cloth on the inside of the part and brush it with a paint brush. Static created causes it to stick. Then apply thin CA all over cloth. Very light weight and strong.
 

kuririn

BARGeezer
TRF Supporter
Joined
Oct 3, 2016
Messages
5,460
Reaction score
3,052
Location
Hawaii
Whatever you do (or not) keep the weight penalty in mind.
Remember Tim advises not to even add a motor retainer, it will shift the CG too far back.
 

Antares JS

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2020
Messages
591
Reaction score
483
Location
Eastern Shore, VA
I don't have my kit yet, but I have read the instructions Apogee posted and have the same concerns about the fairings and fins/wings being held on with only CA. The best thing I have been able to come up with so far is to put a thin bead of wood glue instead of CA on the fin/wing root tabs, where it bonds to the body tube. You won't be able to fillet it, but I would trust the wood glue more than CA to hold up for a few flights. I had a few other ideas, but they all add weight and seem too risky due to the precarious CG/CP. As was previously mentioned, the fairings are not structural and I'm not too concerned with them being CA-only.
 

Apogee Components

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2020
Messages
56
Reaction score
74
So prior to the release, and specifically because the CG/CP situation, we made and flew several of these (I think 5 in total during design / optimization). Though we had some failures (and changes were made accordingly), none of them failed due to adhesive choices or even fin damage.

Maybe that eases your concerns? Maybe not. Regardless, I see no harm in using some wood glue in place of CA should your heart desire.
 

Apogee Components

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2020
Messages
56
Reaction score
74
Due to the overwhelming demand of the Apogee X-15, we have sold out of all our 30" parachutes. These are acquired in large bulk, as they do take some time. Unfortunately, that means we have no parachutes for our X-15's for the next few weeks.

As such, our next batch of X-15's are on sale at a reduced price, but does not include a parachute.
 

AfterBurners

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
7,680
Reaction score
399
Location
Dallas Texas
Due to the overwhelming demand of the Apogee X-15, we have sold out of all our 30" parachutes. These are acquired in large bulk, as they do take some time. Unfortunately, that means we have no parachutes for our X-15's for the next few weeks.

As such, our next batch of X-15's are on sale at a reduced price, but does not include a parachute.
thats a good approach because I don't about anyone else but I always have extra chutes laying around, in fact I hardly have just one per rocket. I do a lot interchanging.
 

Saluki

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
346
Reaction score
70
I think it's time to release ALL the video instruction for the Apogee X-15. I have read the instruction more than once but watching the video can be much more helpful. Nothing like seeing how it is done properly.

What's the holdup?
 

Apogee Components

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2020
Messages
56
Reaction score
74
No particular holdup, just more of a general one. It's a busy time of year, and by releasing these for our advanced construction videos it frees up a decent bit of Tim's (and our teams) time to handle some more pressing things that occur during this season.

That said, I get where you are coming from. I've put this on the docket for our next marketing meeting, I'll argue the case, and we will see where the chips land.
 

Saluki

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
346
Reaction score
70
I understand. Thank you Apogee Components. Very much appreciated.
 
Top