Would You Sign Your Name to This?

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

GregGleason

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2009
Messages
4,674
Reaction score
45
In Congress, July 4, 1776.
A Declaration
By the Representatives of the
United states of America,
In general Congress assembled.


When in the course of human Events, it becomes necessary for one People to dissolve the Political Bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent Respect to the Opinions of Mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the Separation.
We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness—-That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient Causes; and accordingly all Experience hath shewn, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while Evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the Forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long Train of Abuses and Usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a Design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security. Such has been the patient Sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the Necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The History of the Present King of Great-Britain is a History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid World.
He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public Good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing Importance, unless suspended in their Operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the Accommodation of large Districts of People; unless those People would relinquish the Right of Representation in the Legislature, a Right inestimable to them, and formidable to Tyrants only.
He has called together Legislative Bodies at Places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the Depository of their public Records, for the sole Purpose of fatiguing them into Compliance with his Measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly Firmness his Invasions on the Rights of the People.
He has refused for a long Time, after such Dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the Dangers of Invasion from without, and Convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the Population of these States; for that Purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their Migrations hither, and raising the Conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the Tenure of their Offices, and Amount and Payment of their Salaries.
He has erected a Multitude of new Offices, and sent hither Swarms of Officers to harass our People, and eat out their Substance.
He has kept among us, in Times of Peace, Standing Armies, without the consent of our Legislature.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a Jurisdiction foreign to our Constitution, and unacknowledged by our Laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For quartering large Bodies of Armed Troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from Punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all Parts of the World:
For imposing taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us, in many Cases, of the Benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended Offences:
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an arbitrary Government, and enlarging its Boundaries, so as to render it at once an Example and fit Instrument for introducing the same absolute Rule in these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with Powers to legislate for us in all Cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our Seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our Towns, and destroyed the Lives of our People.
He is, at this Time, transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the Works of Death, Desolation, and Tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty and Perfidy, scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous Ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized Nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the Executioners of their Friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic Insurrections among us, and has endeavoured to bring on the Inhabitants of our Frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known Rule of Warfare, is an undistinguished Destruction, of all Ages, Sexes and Conditions.
In every stage of these Oppressions we have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble Terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated Injury. A Prince, whose Character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the Ruler of a free People.
Nor have we been wanting in Attentions to our British Brethren. We have warned them from Time to Time of Attempts by their Legislature to extend an unwarrantable Jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the Circumstances of our Emigration and Settlement here. We have appealed to their native Justice and Magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the Ties of our common Kindred to disavow these Usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our Connections and Correspondence. They too have been deaf to the Voice of Justice and of Consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the Necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of Mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace, Friends.
We, therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the World for the Rectitude of our Intentions, do, in the Name, and by the Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly Publish and Declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be, Free and Independent States; that they are absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political Connection between them and the State of Great-Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm Reliance on the Protection of the divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.


Signed by Order and in Behalf of the Congress,
John Hancock, President.
Attest.
Charles Thomson, Secretary.


https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence


Let Freedom Ring.


Greg
 
Most of it seems to be a list of grievances against a particular monarch so that a group of powerful men can maintain their own privileges, rather than any enlightened view of the nature of democracy.
So, no. Not without some Amendments, anyway.
 
As has many, I've done more than just be willing to sign [the Declaration of Independence], I've sworn to support and defend the Constitution, even if it means my life; against all enemies, here and abroad. I took that obligation with all loyalty and integrity imaginable to this country and I will do it to the very best of my abilities.... SO HELP ME GOD.

Here is the actual text:

I, (Full Name) having been appointed a (Rank) in the United States Air Force, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter, SO HELP ME GOD.
 
Last edited:
Hell Yes!!!

Most of it seems to be a list of grievances against a particular monarch so that a group of powerful men can maintain their own privileges, rather than any enlightened view of the nature of democracy.
So, no. Not without some Amendments, anyway.
And therefore you still live under a Constitutional Monarchy where you
are prevented from exercising the right to defend yourself and your family
against criminals and aggressive forces. And if you do you yourself become
a criminal.

And we are a Republic, with that and many other rights at our disposal.

BTW, the Amendments came later, better know as the Bill of Rights.

As has many, I've done more than just be willing to sign, I've sworn to support and defend it, even if it means my life; against all enemies, here and abroad. I took that obligation with all loyalty and integrity imaginable to this country and I will do it to the very best of my abilities.... SO HELP ME GOD.

Here is the actual text:

I, (Full Name) having been appointed a (Rank) in the United States Air Force, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter, SO HELP ME GOD.

Amen, brother, amen.

Six years USN!!! Oooh Rah!!!
 
As has many, I've done more than just be willing to sign, I've sworn to support and defend it, even if it means my life; against all enemies, here and abroad. I took that obligation with all loyalty and integrity imaginable to this country and I will do it to the very best of my abilities.... SO HELP ME GOD.

Um, this is the Declaration of Independence. :eyepop:
 
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an arbitrary Government, and enlarging its Boundaries, so as to render it at once an Example and fit Instrument for introducing the same absolute Rule in these Colonies:

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with Powers to legislate for us in all Cases whatsoever.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the Accommodation of large Districts of People; unless those People would relinquish the Right of Representation in the Legislature, a Right inestimable to them,

Yeah, that thing about an attitude of, "so, screw the laws" would really get on my nerves.
Laws (assuming they are not unjust) on record are there to counter the apparent tendency of people, individual or in group, to be selfish and vindictive.
Once people with power start saying, 'Oh I'm too special for the law to apply to me' there will be some not good things coming down the pike.
(and sometimes involving the pike literally in the 1600s and 1700s)

We know what history reports and the various spins on it, but I, thankfully, have no understanding of what it is to live under the kind of situation that was going on then.

Somewhere out there I'd bet is information on how many other nations have used our Constitution as a template for their own. Would be interesting to find out.
 
Last edited:
So which of the Amendments in the Bill of Rights acknowledges our right to marry, our right to form a business, our right to traverse these United States without Federal documentation, etc., and our right to engage in the pursuit of hobbies, including sport rocketry?
 
Hey Jerry, didn't we take the oath towards the Constitution - versus the Declaration of Independence? ;)

Also, it's interesting to note that at the time of this writing, the authors of this declaration were considered to be liberal - while those that defended the King were considered conservative.

Also, as a follow-up to my wife's comment from last 4th of July - she's taking her test towards citizenship this upcoming Friday afternoon. Good on ya, babe!
 
As has many, I've done more than just be willing to sign, I've sworn to support and defend it, even if it means my life; against all enemies, here and abroad. I took that obligation with all loyalty and integrity imaginable to this country and I will do it to the very best of my abilities.... SO HELP ME GOD.

Here is the actual text:

I, (Full Name) having been appointed a (Rank) in the United States Air Force, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter, SO HELP ME GOD.

Been there, done that for twenty years. Have the Tee-shirt & DD Form 214 to prove it.
 
Also, it's interesting to note that at the time of this writing, the authors of this declaration were considered to be liberal - while those that defended the King were considered conservative.

Well, revolution in general seems to be a leftist/progressive/liberal type of tendency, while supporting the status quo would be kind of the definition of "conservative", no?
 
I would sign it only if they changed "unalienable" back to Jefferson's original "inalienable" - but that's just me being a pain
 
Well, if no one else is going to say, I will:

I'd put my John Hancock on that document. :lol:

CMASS celebrated the Fourth today by doing a demo launch at a block party in an area town. All very nice.
 
I'd put my John Hancock on that document. :lol:


John Hancock and everyone else commited an act of treason when they signed that document. Treason is an act still punishable by death.

Think of all the years them fellas had to have eyes in the back of thier heads to stay alive.
 
Um, this is the Declaration of Independence. :eyepop:

Ahhh yes...but what it led to ....


I (we military types) swore and oath to the Constitution. Without the Declaration of Independence, there would not be one. Perhaps I should have been more clear. That was/is my intent.
 
All of the men that signed did not know for sure how it would all turn out. It was a huge risk to sign the document, and once signed there was no turning back. Here are some comments from Paul Harvey:

[YOUTUBE]3In5LZwG9Io[/YOUTUBE]

Freedom and individual liberty are precious. Tyranny and oppression have been the norm for many in the world.

Statesmen seek to lead citizens.

Tyrants seek to rule subjects.

Have a Happy (and grateful) Independence Day!

Greg
 
Most of it seems to be a list of grievances against a particular monarch so that a group of powerful men can maintain their own privileges, rather than any enlightened view of the nature of democracy.
So, no. Not without some Amendments, anyway.

Of course. Because it's the declaration of INDEPENDENCE. Not a framework for a government. The so called powerful men (elected by their colony's people) pledged their lives and fortune to the cause of separating from a tyrant who did not care about the legitimate grievances the colony's had.

The real enlightened view of democracy came in 1787, when the U.S. Constitution was created.

And yes I WOULD proudly sign my name to this document, and I HAVE taken an oath to support the Constitution.
 
Most of it seems to be a list of grievances against a particular monarch so that a group of powerful men can maintain their own privileges, rather than any enlightened view of the nature of democracy.
So, no. Not without some Amendments, anyway.

Based on the location of the individual who's posting is quoted, I would expect no other retort. :eyeroll: Blessed be this American experiment and God save the Queen.
 
Of the people who would sign this, a lot of service men jump up and say I DO.
And theres just something about service men that understands it.... I am not a service man, but i come from a line of them, and its not something that stops in thier "work" duties.... this thing they have spills over to everyone they come in contact with. It's definately left an impression on my life.

But, at the same time people say yes.....
how may say:

Where was fema!
where is my healthcare!
who is going to keep me safe!
Who is going to keep (those guys over there) from hurting me!

Who else, is going to do for me, because ---- I can't....

I think more people in this nation that teaches personal dependancy, needs to sign this document on a personal level. So that our nation can mirror the independant views it had back in 1774.

to look at this document and say, these guys were rebel outlaws is easy...
to look at this document and say these guys were doctors, lawyers, proffessionals, who were trying to survive is much harder.

Look at why it was written...
https://www.ushistory.org/declaration/related/intolerable.htm
 
i have spent most of my adult life (21 years)defending my country. both as a soldier and a civilan/citizen. so yes i would sign it. even now with the state of disrepair our country is currently in it is still the best democracy on earth.
 
"Most of it seems to be a list of grievances against a particular monarch so that a group of powerful men can maintain their own privileges, rather than any enlightened view of the nature of democracy.
So, no. Not without some Amendments, anyway.
Reply With Quote


It was just a bunch of rebels who wanted local economic and political control and who were engaging in too much liberal and dangerous enlightenment thinking. The more important publication of 1776 was The Wealth of Nations by the pragmatic Adam Smith, now there is a good piece of conservative Redcoat logic and the foundation document of our beloved capitalism. The Rebels may have been signing their death warrant but they did have something to gain; freedom from being treated like the second class colonists they were. They just did not want to pay their share for the Empire’s expenses while being treated like a colony. No respect for the crown. They did not even have the support of the majority of the population who would have stayed with the crown and avoided conflict, man they were taking a risk. How on earth did they win! It helped to drive the poor King mad!

With all the glamor of the recent Royal wedding I would hate to think it but the majority of television viewers in the US might just now renounce that nasty letter dated July 4, 1776 so that we could have the monarchy back, especially if Princess Di were still around to be our Queen. Since we threw them out in 1783 Americans have been searching for and wanting a royal family. George Washington would have none of it, and we did have the Kennedy’s Camelot for a few precious years, but we have not been able to find a really good substitute for 235 years. So I guess we just have to continue to adopt the ongoing intrigue of the royal family we kicked out so long ago. Maybe Kate will be the ticket.

All that good enlightenment stuff in the July letter took a long time to come into effect and the process is still on going. But that is all way too complicated and I for one just want to build some rockets and let the rest of the country read the tabloids and watch the tele. It all worked out in the end because the founding fathers created a system that was stable for business and what is good for big business is good for America. God Bless America and God Save the Queen! History has come full circle and now all we really have to decide is how to spell colour programme.
 
Last edited:
I thought I remembered this from college . . .

. . . someone else also read, and wanted to sign-up their country up to this document.

Reading of Declaration of Independence

If only Truman could've identified this country and provided a response - history may have been different.
 
i have spent most of my adult life (21 years)defending my country. both as a soldier and a civilan/citizen. so yes i would sign it. even now with the state of disrepair our country is currently in it is still the best democracy on earth.
Not to be too picky but it is a Republic not a Democracy.

It was just a bunch of rebels who wanted local economic and political control and who were engaging in too much liberal and dangerous enlightenment thinking.
The term Liberal is misapplied 99.9% of the time when discussing politics. It
is often used to describe leftist positions, which is not accurate. A liberal is
a person open to discuss or review all ideas, debate and discuss as needed.
Mark Levin's term Statist is by far a much more accurate name for the left
in this country. Conservative also is not an accurate term, Constitutionalist
or Constructionist would be more accurate term for the right in this country
but then most Politicians abhor accuracy and like the world in vagaries and
tones of gray. It is far easier to lead the sheeple around that way.
 
Last edited:
Not to be too picky but it is a Republic not a Democracy.


i was refering to the state of our political process. which is democratic in nature. yet blind to anything but preserving their own skin so to speak. when thousands of citizens show up at a capital for weeks to protest a bill and even one elected official says very clearly i dont care im voting to pass it. then they have lost sight of why they are there.
 
i was refering to the state of our political process. which is democratic in nature. yet blind to anything but preserving their own skin so to speak. when thousands of citizens show up at a capital for weeks to protest a bill and even one elected official says very clearly i dont care im voting to pass it. then they have lost sight of why they are there.

Unfortunately, you would be correct with that statement.
 
Not to be too picky but it is a Republic not a Democracy.


The term Liberal is misapplied 99.9% of the time when discussing politics. It
is often used to describe leftist positions, which is not accurate. A liberal is
a person open to discuss or review all ideas, debate and discuss as needed.
Mark Levin's term Statist is by far a much more accurate name for the left
in this country. Conservative also is not an accurate term, Constitutionalist
or Constructionist would be more accurate term for the right in this country
but then most Politicians abhor accuracy and like the world in vagaries and
tones of gray. It is far easier to lead the sheeple around that way.

A very simple generalization: A Liberal wants change. A Conservative wants things to stay the same. During those turbulent times going too far either way could prove to be very dangerous, depending on which mob was at the front door. Since then it has been a balancing act between these two great documents from 1776, the degrees of personal freedom vs. the stability needed to maintain order in the State. It is harder to balance than my Spaceship One kit bash into a P-40, you never quite know where the relationship between the CP and CG are.

All I can say is that I am a Rocket Rebel. I want the freedom to launch without Big Brother watching over me. Give me AP or give me death. Launch free or die. Where is the Declaration of Rocketry against the Central Government's regulation? I will sign my name in big bold letters right at the top so if we lose those guys in the dark blue jackets with the yellow letters on their backs will have no trouble in singling me out for the gallows. The label on my next batch of home brew will be a picture of me holding up a high power casing with "Brewer, Launcher, Patriot" scrolled underneath.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top