# Would you purchase an "X" type Rip-Stop Nylon parachute?

## What Are You For V Day?

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##### Well-Known Member
I have had several e-mails in the past about carrying "X" type chutes. What do you guys think if the cost was comparble to regular chutes...and what size?

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#### rbeckey

##### Well-Known Member
I understand that they drift less than rounders. How much faster is the descent rate? I'd be willing to experiment to see something a little different floating back.

#### Ryan S.

##### Well-Known Member
it depends on what size rocket I am going to use if for so I cant really answer this one....

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Ryan S.
it depends on what size rocket I am going to use if for so I cant really answer this one....
I guess I'm trying to get a feel if there is any interest to warrant production.

#### Johnnie

##### Well-Known Member
They have the "cool" effect on their side, but they also have the advantage of less drift.

Should you carry them, it would be good to keep a chart to help a person pick the correct chute. I picked the 30" chute, because I needed a 24" chute etc. My understanding is, if you need a certain size chute, you pick the next size up for an X-form.

#### OKTurbo

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
John,

I'd be interested in the X-chutes. Just looking for the "cool" effect.

I've been thinking about trying some "novelty" parachutes myself. Not sure if they would work or not....just some crazy ideas I have. For example....A rocket that looks like a tall paper milk carton using a parachute with a white/black spots like a milk cow....or just something crazy like a parachute with two spill holes that looks like your favorite pair of whitey tighteys (BVD's or Fruit of the Looms... ) Maybe a wind-sock kinda chute that looks like a pair of jeans.....There are many in the "Laundry" theme.

These would of course need some R&D. I'm not even sure if these would function properly and actually recover a rocket. Like I said, just some crazy ideas.

John

#### el chubbo

##### Well-Known Member
Our elementary school rocket club tested (4) 12" octoganal chutes with s. holes vs. (4) x-style of a slightly larger size...

Although this was only a drop from a 24 foot roof we all noticed that the x-style drifted down in a more STABLE manner....

Our hypothesis is that stability = less drift. We are scheduling a run of test launches to study the same question... I'll provide the data when we have it... has anyone tried the same experiment?

On the "style" question...Most of our club has opted to design x-style chute for the cool factor...

#### Micromeister

##### Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Supporter
X form chute are about 1/2 the resistance of a standard flat circular parasheet and nearly a 1/3 of the volumn of a true hemi parachute. They have a tendency to spin on their way down, which some folks seem to like as a "cool Factor". In truth the spin also increased the risk of fin damage on touchdown. I've noticed the smaller one's 15" and below have a little trouble opening. 18" and up seem to do a good low drift, higher sink rate job, allowing for the increase in potential spin landing damage.
Since thay are way easier to make and much more effiect as far as material is concerned. I'd say an X form shouldn't be priced anywhere near even a Flat nylon chutes, maybe 2/3rds their price??
I make all my own X, flat and Hemispherial chutes and streamers, hopefully these observations may be of some help.

#### AndyC

##### Well-Known Member
Just my thoughts: if you do go down the route of making these x-types, how about fitting 12, rather than 8 shroudlines (ie. 3 per side).
A bit more work on the sewing machine, but this really improves the chute's efficiency, by forming a more hemispherical shape. I agree with micromisters observations that the smallest (<18") chutes can be a bit erratic.

Also, using 2 contrasting colours for the two 3:1 rectangular panels aids tracking, especially when combined with the chutes rotation.

They should be a lot cheaper to produce than circular canopies, and I agree that they do have the 'cool' factor.

cheers

Andy.

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by el chubbo
Our elementary school rocket club tested (4) 12" octoganal chutes with s. holes vs. (4) x-style of a slightly larger size...

Although this was only a drop from a 24 foot roof we all noticed that the x-style drifted down in a more STABLE manner....

Our hypothesis is that stability = less drift. We are scheduling a run of test launches to study the same question... I'll provide the data when we have it... has anyone tried the same experiment?

On the "style" question...Most of our club has opted to design x-style chute for the cool factor...
Granted, I don't have an engineering degree, but my guess is that a regular canopy style chute has the tendancy, if not the ability, to fly. That is to say the canopy is shaped like an airfoil and hence can at some point create lift. The X style, seems to be a less effective airfoil yet ,still creates enoguh drag so that whatever it's lowering doesn't completly fall out of the sky!

##### Well-Known Member
Thanks again for all the great feedback. I'll try making some orange, yellow and orange/yellow 15,18, and 24 inch to start and see how it goes.

Thanks again!

#### rbeckey

##### Well-Known Member
John,
I know I'd like at least one 36 inch. It is possible the ocsilation of a regular chute is one of the reasons my Super Vega is busting landing gear.

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by rbeckey
John,
I know I'd like at least one 36 inch. It is possible the ocsilation of a regular chute is one of the reasons my Super Vega is busting landing gear.

Bob, What is the color of the Vega?
JR

#### rbeckey

##### Well-Known Member
White and red. Basic stock design. What colors would look good? Red/black? Red/purple? Red/yellow?

Prollly red/black.

#### Micromeister

##### Micro Craftman/ClusterNut
TRF Supporter
Bob:
I'd say it very well may be, I'm assuming that's at 36" flat chute, before I'd switch to an X form chute I'd try putting a 1" spill hole in your 36" flat chute. I'm flying a 24" nylon hemi in mine with a 3/4" spill, comes down nice and straight

##### Well-Known Member
Does anyone ave any good links on X type chute design? I'm trying to figure out the size of each panel depending on diameter. I want to get the right width...
Thanks

#### rbeckey

##### Well-Known Member
I believe that a commonly used ratio is 3:1, no matter what size. That way when the pieces are laying on each other, the sections are all equal squares.

#### rbeckey

##### Well-Known Member
It just occurred to me that my Outlander will require an X Form chute! I'll bet whoever builds X forms in a size appropriate to the Outlander will sell a few.

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by rbeckey
I believe that a commonly used ratio is 3:1, no matter what size. That way when the pieces are laying on each other, the sections are all equal squares.
So whatever the size, the panels are all 3 times as long as they are wide?

#### arthur dent

##### Well-Known Member
I only use x type chutes.They cut down the drift of my rockets and if you use a size bigger than you would use for a standard chute the landings are pretty good.

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by arthur dent
I only use x type chutes.They cut down the drift of my rockets and if you use a size bigger than you would use for a standard chute the landings are pretty good.
That's what figured. I will probably make the sizes 15", 20" and 24or 30". Then anything smaller or larger would be by order.

#### cbwho

##### Well-Known Member
Reading the posts,it appears that X parachutes may drift less (while not sinking faster) because:
1. Regular parachutes can form an air foil and actually generate lift. (I believe I've seen this!)
2. X form chutes spin.

The only drawback is that the lines can tangle.

Ak I getting this correct?

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
Reading the posts,it appears that X parachutes may drift less (while not sinking faster) because:
1. Regular parachutes can form an air foil and actually generate lift. (I believe I've seen this!)
2. X form chutes spin.

The only drawback is that the lines can tangle.

Ak I getting this correct?
Wow! A sixteen year thread necro, new record. As for x-form chutes depends on the configuration of the lines as to how tanglefree they are or aren't. Drifting is dependant on how the chute is sized to the rocket.

#### BABAR

##### Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Supporter
Wow! A sixteen year thread necro, new record. As for x-form chutes depends on the configuration of the lines as to how tanglefree they are or aren't. Drifting is dependant on how the chute is sized to the rocket.
yeah, I thought the same necro thing.

the larger X chutes REQUIRE a swivel. I was fortunate enough to learn this from someone ELSE‘S misfortune. Without the swivel, they will tangle up and become streamers.

@Onebadhawk has A great swivel for these, runs $7 and$3 shipping. The chute and swivel Worked perfectly on my interceptor E. It was a great recovery

#### AfterBurners

##### Well-Known Member
I noticed that TF now offers a 20" "X" Form chute. I like mixing up the neon colors. Pink and green, yellow and orange...well you get it. They are really visible!

#### cbwho

##### Well-Known Member
Why is is bad to restart an old thread? Doesn't it keep stuff more organized?

Ok a swivel is required.

What I am really wondering is the drift while keeping descent time constant. So given 2 appropriate sized chutes that descent at the same rate, which drifts less?

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
Why is is bad to restart an old thread? Doesn't it keep stuff more organized?

Ok a swivel is required.

What I am really wondering is the drift while keeping descent time constant. So given 2 appropriate sized chutes that descent at the same rate, which drifts less?
Its not really a bad thing to necro an old thread, many times though the original poster and some particpants are no longer here on TRF for various reasons.

#### Handeman

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Why is is bad to restart an old thread? Doesn't it keep stuff more organized?

Ok a swivel is required.

What I am really wondering is the drift while keeping descent time constant. So given 2 appropriate sized chutes that descent at the same rate, which drifts less?
If 2 chutes have the same decent time, they will both drift the same distance. Time in the air x air speed = distance of drift. Just like if you throw a big stick and a small stick in a river, they both move with at the speed of the water.

#### BABAR

##### Builds Rockets for NASA
TRF Supporter
Why is is bad to restart an old thread? Doesn't it keep stuff more organized?

Ok a swivel is required.

What I am really wondering is the drift while keeping descent time constant. So given 2 appropriate sized chutes that descent at the same rate, which drifts less?
Nothing wrong with bringing back an Old thread, so long as you have good questions or content to add.

as Rich noted, however both the original as well as many previous posters may no longer be active on the forum, which can de disappointing.

Short of coming up with a directional chute which will turn upwind (and I don’t know if one exists, although people are working on steerable chutes), I’m with those that say that two chutes with the same descent rate will have the same drift, regardless of configuration/style,