Windows 7 Going Away

Discussion in 'The Watering Hole' started by aerostadt, Nov 10, 2019.

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  1. Nov 17, 2019 #31

    beeblebrox

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    The best thing I have found is Classic Shell. The original version: http://www.classicshell.net/ It is now being developed on GitHub at: https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu

    This gives you a start menu like older windows, works perfectly with Windows 10, Since it also works with Windows 7, you can install it and mess around with it to see what it does. You can chose to enable or disable whenever you like. I personally like the Classic menu... Image1.jpg Image2.jpg
     
  2. Nov 17, 2019 #32

    scadaman29325

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    Security is a delicate balance between keeping you safe and allowing you to work unhindered.

    Sometimes both are not possible, like carrying two bags of groceries into the house and having to open the door, or worse, having to unlock it first!
     
  3. Nov 18, 2019 #33

    Marc_G

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    I had some fun today. I took an unused/idle Intel NUC with an i5-4250 and installed both Win10 Pro and Linux Mint on it. It will be my play machine.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
  4. Nov 18, 2019 #34

    Brian H.

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    Are you saying I can upgrade to Win 10 using my Win 7 key without needing to purchase a Win 10 license?
     
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  5. Nov 18, 2019 #35

    cerving

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    The Windows 10 kernel is much better in almost every way than Windows 7, it's just too bad that Microsoft didn't give you the option to keep your UI preferences. I REALLY hate the stupid "one OS UI" that Microsoft foisted upon everyone... and it's even stupider now that they dropped Windows Phone, which was the main reason for doing it in the first place. At my day job, we just finished upgrading over 1,300 computers... a large majority of them laptops that needed complete replacement. It cost us over $1M in hardware, and untold costs in re-educating the users to do things that they already knew how to do with Windows 7.
     
  6. Nov 21, 2019 #36

    Tobor

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  7. Nov 22, 2019 #37

    n3tjm

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    As an IT Guy, I must say overall I really like Windows 10. There are several things I don't like about it, but its not enough to make me miss Windows 7. And It's UI is not to bad. MUCH better than Windows 8. I really HATE windows 8. Here is a lest of windows versions I have used in my lifetime in the order of favorite to least favorite from how I like the OS back during the time frame I used it.

    Windows 10
    Windows 7
    Windows XP
    Windows 98
    Windows 2000
    Windows 95
    Windows 3.11
    Windows CE
    Windows Vista
    Windows 8

    Seriously, I have said Windows 8 ALMOST made me want to buy a MAC. Not really, I still rather buy a Windows 8 PC and then buy a new Windows 7 license for it and "upgrade." LOL
     
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  8. Nov 22, 2019 #38

    RocketScientistAustralia

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    Since windows 10 came in I've gone to Linux Mint. The user interface is like windows. There is a learning curve but it's a lot less and easier than 10 pain.
    I got fed up with starting the computer and not being able to use it until windoze had finished it's updates, cortana the most insidious program ever had done it's thing. Almost impossible to get rid of voice recognition on 10. And the antivirus program had updated.
    Linux when you can see the icons they will work.... You don't see them until later than windoze shows them but your system actually works in a fraction of the boot time till practical use is available. And you do not need an antivirus program. And Ive only had to reboot once after an update. Ditch windows. Run while you can.
    And if you really need to you can run windows under linux.
     
  9. Nov 23, 2019 #39

    Greg Furtman

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    Yes you can. I've done it on several computers. :)
     
  10. Nov 23, 2019 #40

    beeblebrox

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    MY problem with windows 10 is all the bloatware "features" that no one cares about. My computer loses about half it's speed with every update, I am going to be forced to buy a new machine soon because of it. The folks at microsoft forgot how to write code 20 years ago, they just keep cutting/pasting the same buggy slow routines over and over. They need to take cues from Gibson research. https://www.grc.com/intro.htm Windows 2000 was excellent, it was fast and stable, but then they had to screw it up creating xp rather than just fixing the minor problems, I was only forced to upgrade to XP when some apps I required would not work anymore. Never since then have I been able to run my pc for almost a full year before needing a reboot...now Win 10 forces that crap right when I am in the middle of something. (It seems to know - lol) I still have (in a box) a Windows NT4 machine that is rock stable...it just can't do much anymore for obvious reasons...
     
  11. Nov 23, 2019 #41

    Wallace

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    Yup, currently have 3 machines running 7 and one on 10. Although I hate 10, it's currently the only option short of just scrapping all that crap and going Linux. "They" will continue to support 7....But...Only if you have some sort of ginormous corporate grandfathered account. Not available for us peons. Linux might just be a good chance to learn something new, right?
     
  12. Nov 23, 2019 #42

    Wallace

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    And my Galaxy Note4 was the best phone I've ever owned. Until I flat out wore the damn thing out. "Upgraded to a Note8 and It's orders of magnitude worse. I've been on the hunt for a new old stock Note4 for a while now. All I seem to be able to find are refurbs. Anyone have a link?
     
  13. Nov 23, 2019 #43

    n3tjm

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    One of things I love about windows 10 is how fast it is. I am not sure what you mean about bloatware slowing down your computer. It's not windows 7, where every update makes it slower. True, Windows 10's updates are a royal pain in a butt, but once the update is done, its fine. Any bloatware you have on your computer is something the manufacturer put on on it, or you accidentally installed it by downloading a free program, or install Adobe plugins and not unchecking the bundled bloatware (SHAME ON ADOBE!)

    Speaken of which, I just upgraded my two home office and work office PC to 1909, and I noticed boot-up is actually much faster. before it was fast, but now its just a few seconds. Doing a cold restart is still much faster than windows 7.

    Now, I am not sure if you are an IT person, but the first rule of owning a Windows PC is do a clean install of Windows as soon as you open the box and register the computer online (to activate the windows). This will get rid of all the bloatware every major Computer manufacture is paid to put on your computers. McAfee or Norton is the #1 app that slows down a PC and makes it unstable, and just about every computer I ever bought came with it installed. Simply uninstalling it won't fix the problem (in some cases it causes the computer to become more unstable. I have lots of experience with that). You also don't need the "Tools" that HP, Lenovo, and other brands put on your computer. They are just annoying, take up resources, and don't do anything for you that windows update doesn't already do.

    Create a USB installation disk (Download the tool from Microsoft). Installation is pretty quick and straight forward. Google how to get your computer to boot off a usb disk (every computer is different how to do so). You also may want to know what model number the PC is before starting. There are rare occasions where your computer may have something Windows 10 does not recognize and you will have to download the drivers from the manufacturers website. Always make sure you download the drivers from manufacturers website. Driver downloads is a great way to completely mess up your PC with malware, viruses, etc if you download it from somewhere else. And never ever ever ever download a program to "keep your drivers updated" Once again, bloatware at least, malware at most. And this is something Windows Update does for you anyway.

    Make sure you not on the internet when you do your reinstall or it forces you to use an Microsoft Account to log in (use a local account, and then tie in your Microsoft account later if you have one).

    Now that you removed McAfee or Norton, what antivirus should you use? Well, the built in Antivirus is adequate for most users, but if you want something out there that does a little more, Avast and Avg (same company) are excellent choices for both the free and the paid versions. Make sure you only use their antivirus programs. Their other "PC Performance" and "Driver Update" programs are undesirable.

    One other final Note, performance of your computer depends on several factors. Biggest one is CPU, followed by Storage, Followed by Memory.

    For CPU, you want at least a Intel i5 or Amd Ryzen. Celerons, Pentium, and i3 are pretty much junk imo. AMD A series is garbage performance wise).

    Second Critical Factor is Storage. Hard drives are SLOW, especially if its a 5400 rpm. 7200 rpm is what you need to have when using a conventional hard drive. SSD's are becoming a lot more popular, more reliable, and cheaper. A Sata SSD replacing a convention hard drive is like night and day, especially when you log in after a major update. If your mobo using a M2 pci express SSD is the faster choice. Make sure you BACKUP your data regularly. While this rule applies for conventional drives as well, usually when a SSD fails, it doesn't give you any warnings first.

    Finally Memory. The "sweet spot" of memory to have is 8 Gigs. You really don't need more than this unless you are doing heavy graphical work, gaming, or like to do virtualization. Also, make sure your computer uses at least 2 memory sticks. For example, 2 8GB sticks is faster than a single 16 GB stick of ram, since only 1 stick cant take advantage of dual channel memory.

    My Home office computer is a 3rd Gen i5 with 8 gigs of ram and a 480 GB sata SSD, and my Work Office PC I am sporting a 6th Gen i7 16 gigs of ram and a 1TB M2 SSD. Both computer's are lightning fast with Windows 10.
     
  14. Nov 23, 2019 #44

    beeblebrox

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    My Laptop is a 12 year old Dell Inspiron 15 w/6GB Ram, it only has a core i5 processor, I was stating from absolute fact that it has slowed down with Windows 10. The spring windows 10 major upgrade totally crippled the machine. It would not run for more than an hour without freezing up, had a utility from GRC monitoring Ram usage so I could see what was going on. This thing had Windows 8 when I purchased it, that was terrible... The 8.1 upgrade happened soon after. It was much better then. I also at that time installed as Dual boot, Ubuntu 14. that is now upgraded to 18. The linux OS boots up WAY faster than Win 10. Typical boot for the Ubuntu is about 2 minutes. Windows 10 takes about 9-12 minutes to boot. Upgrades were taking 3 hours to complete. up thru July this year, then they failed. 2 weeks ago, finally frustrated, I had to contact Microshaft Support. The update exe was corrupted, they had me do a complete re-install of windows 10, with preservation of my programs. Took all day, but at least I am back up and running the updates. Still have to do the 1809 which is really only (mostly) an activation of some items that were disabled in 1803. It would be nice if updates would fix problems and make the system more efficient rather than create more problems...

    I am just trying to muddle thru with this thing for now, I want a new faster PC but that is not in the current budget...

    I do not use those aftermarket things like Norton, McAfee etc... they are system resource hogs. I just wish that many of the apps I use constantly had a linux version. I have had poor luck trying to get Windows apps to work under linux (Tried Wine) it didn't work...
     
  15. Nov 23, 2019 #45

    Greg Furtman

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    I have an 8 year old Lenovo laptop that came with Win 7. It has an old i5 processor & 8 Gb of DRAMM. I put a solid state drive in it when I was running Win 7 and the boot time went from 90 seconds to 25 seconds. Huge difference! And you can get a decent brand 240 GB SSD now for less than $25. It is the best upgrade you can make.

    I am running Win 10 on 4 different machines and they are faster than when they had Win 7 on them. If you download the latest Win 10 image from MS, it does not contain all the bloatware that the original versions had. Abd there are pleanty of programs out there, many free, that allow one to customize how Win 10 looks & feels. (See previous messages)
     
  16. Nov 23, 2019 #46

    n3tjm

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    Well there is your problem right there... 12 year old computer. Since the i5 was introduced in 2009, either your computer is newer than 12 years, or you don't have an i5. Either way, windows 10 is not optimized for a computer that age. So the features that windows 10 takes advantage of are not present in that age of hardware.

    There is also the fact that computer do get slower as they age, especially if they operate on the warm side. Also, I would suspect hard drive issues. If you are on your original hard drive, it would be wise replacing it. The longest I ever seen a conventional hard drive last is about 8 years.

    I do have a computer I just retired. Bought it in August of 2010. It has a AMD Athlon 2 4 core processor. 16 GB of Ram. It sometimes took forever to get Windows 10 to boot up, but once it was booted, it ran fine. Since windows 10 has been stable for me, I rarely had to reboot it. now my current i5 computer is only 3 years newer. Just those three years difference and a better processor makes a huge difference in performance. And jumping to a SSD really makes the boot up faster.
     
  17. Nov 23, 2019 #47

    Marc_G

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    Ah! The Athlon Kuma series, probably. I had one of those as my Home Theater PC for a long time. Great value, it was. It's gathering dust now, but it was a good one!
     
  18. Nov 24, 2019 #48

    Wallace

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    So my Commodore64 is no longer going to be supported either?
     
  19. Nov 24, 2019 #49

    Wallace

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    What the H^%7 am I supposed to do with all these floppy disks?
     
  20. Nov 24, 2019 #50

    n3tjm

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    Lol. Nor the Commodore65, which is a computer my Dad help design (His name is on the motherboard)

    Floppy Disks? I remember the days of using cassette tapes :p.
     
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  21. Nov 24, 2019 #51

    n3tjm

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    Mine Still Runs :). Just recently replaced it with the i5 I was using in my work office until I re-purposed the i7 that was being used for our Quickbooks Server (moved that to a Hyper-V machine).
     
  22. Nov 24, 2019 #52

    John Kemker

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    9-12 minute bootup is SLOW?!?!?!

    I remember booting a VAXcluster and having to wait 45 minutes from typing "boot" at the console to being able to login at that same console.

    Of course, we had over 200 LAT devices (network serial ports going to terminal servers located around the hospital) configured for that cluster. Just establishing the LTAxxxx: devices took up most of the boot time.
     
  23. Nov 24, 2019 #53

    dhbarr

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    Cluster init still takes forever to enum. The hardware guys giveth and the software guys taketh away.
     
  24. Nov 24, 2019 #54

    Greg Furtman

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    I threw away my last box of 8" floppies last year. I kept them around as a conversation piece. My first computer was a Commodore 64. Then I graduated to the Amiga 2000. Now that machine was way ahead of its time. :D
     
  25. Nov 24, 2019 #55

    OverTheTop

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    I built my first computer back in '78, as a project for my Electronics subject in Year 11 at high school. 2650-based from a magazine article in Radio electronics. It ended up with a pair of 5" floppy (was originally cassette tape), S-100 expansion, prom programmer, speech synthesis. It had an editor/assembler, and also ran a nice BASIC.

    Later I had a System 80 (Tandy TRS80 clone) that was my workhorse until the PC came along in the mid '80s. I even managed to calculate pi to 10000 decimal places using integer compiled BASIC on that machine, just for fun :).
     
  26. Nov 24, 2019 #56

    Greg Furtman

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    I built my first PC, a 386SX. Although I had an Amiga 2000, most astronomy software was PC based. A friend gave me a Gateway 386 SX. No hard drive, no memory, just the case & mobo. So I learned about PCs. No internet. Just books & magazines. I got it up and running (Win 3.1) and later installed a coprocessor. For those times, it smoked. :)
     
  27. Nov 25, 2019 #57

    John Kemker

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    Maybe I wasn't very clear:

    45 minutes was for the boot node in the cluster to come online. The rest of the cluster took a bit longer, having to get their boot files over the network from the boot node. LAVc (Local Area VAXcluster) over 10Base5.

    We eventually upgraded to VMScluster on Alpha-AXP hardware with a Gigaswitch backbone. Boot times got a lot better, then.
     
  28. Nov 25, 2019 #58

    n3tjm

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    The first computer I got to play with was called the SnuggleBug 2000.... It was a computer my dad built from scratch. Literally. He designed the mother board, developed his own programming language, wrote his own OS. It had 3 5.25" Floppy Drives. #1 was the OS, #2 was the program you are running, #3 was for saving. It had a whopping 4K of ram and I forgot how much V-ram it had. the computer was dual monitored. Typically Monitor 1 was for the command prompt, and screen 2 was used for output (He wrote his own cad program which to circuit boards and mechanical designs, so the drawing was on screen 2. He still uses his CAD program, obviously ported over to modern computer. He prefers Linux over Windows). It could also use V-Ram for the second screen as system memory, which was cool because if you had the second monitor on, you get a bunch of stuff on the screen. My first computer I owned was a Tandy CoCo 3, using an Amiga Monitor. Then I got a Tandy 1000 HX, also using the same Amiga Monitor. (I used that monitor with my PS1 and PS2 also). I believe I briefly had a 286 but my dad put a 386 board in it. Windows 3.11. Nice. 4 MB of Ram! WOW. Then I got a Cyrix 586. 100 MHZ! I think at one time I had 16MB of ram in it. Then I built a AMD K6-2 at 350 MHz. That was a nice computer until I upgraded to an AMD Athlon 1.1 GHz processor. Used that until I got my AMD Athlon II 4 core, which I recently retired when brought my i5 my brother gave me home. Now laptops, I've own several sporting intel and AMD chips. First was a 486, most recent Win10 is an 5th or 6th Gen i7, but that computer was a $600 i7 so it has a plastic body, which lasted about 3.5 years before falling apart. So I am currently waiting on funds for a new all metal i7 (need about $1150 for the model I want). For now I am using a 2015 mac book air i bought from a friend for $300 which is nice but I can't do everything I need to do with it. I can remote into one of my Win10 boxes, but that still limits me because "right click" is a bit tricky using a Mac. Using a Mac is also interesting, because as an IT person, I know all the flaws that model has and how they are designed to fail.. thats why I would never pay full price for a MAC. $300 is like a cheap throwaway laptop, where if I buy an HP for $300 I am surprised if it lasts over 2 years.
     

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