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dr wogz

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Just got a call rom the wife. our PC at home is broken.. can't restart it, can't do nothing. just looked thru the I-net for news on this update. Seems it's crashed many a system, and users seem to have to restore to the last known "good" version of Windows. It seems it's also affecting users with certain graphics cards..

Guess what I'm doing tonight!!
 

GregGleason

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I have Win 10, but it was purchased preinstalled. Was your home system an upgrade?

Greg
 

dixontj93060

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You know--WHY?

I've taken Mac's through eight generations of OS upgrades spanning a decade--Tiger to El Capitan. Never an issue, not even one hiccup!!!
 

o1d_dude

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There is a known solution to the Win10 anniversary edition's Fail-To-Boot problem.

As I recall the problem only occurs if you installed the update via the Windows internal install utility. People who downloaded the update and installed via a boot disk have no issues. I believe the fix requires you to download the file, create a self-booting install disk, and install that way. I don't guarantee this fix and suggest you google it.
 

dr wogz

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that's the problem though. auto update is turned on. I left this morning with it "applying updates".. wife called when she got home.. grrr...
 

o1d_dude

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that's the problem though. auto update is turned on. I left this morning with it "applying updates".. wife called when she got home.. grrr...
Yep. This has been a massive PR disaster for Microsoft. Thousands of PCs have crashed and burned...no restore points found due to disk partitions being wiped out...dual-boot systems trashed...
 

SaturnV

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"good" version of Windows
There is no such version. This "product" should be boycotted as ineffectual, dumb and witless. Constant updates, wait a minute, a complete tragedy. Same happened with Skype since in sinister hands of Microsoft.
P.S. Otherwise I know what is restore point, I hope you have luck to go with it only.
 

mpitfield

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You know--WHY?

I've taken Mac's through eight generations of OS upgrades spanning a decade--Tiger to El Capitan. Never an issue, not even one hiccup!!!
While your experience my be true, it is simply a myth that Macs are not susceptible to upgrade issues, viruses, bugs, performance issues, hardware failures, etc.
 

dixontj93060

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While your experience my be true, it is simply a myth that Macs are not susceptible to upgrade issues, viruses, bugs, performance issues, hardware failures, etc.
Sure, but it has never happened in a decade with 4 Mac platforms. My 5 or 6 PC's? Well that's a completely different story!
 

SaturnV

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While your experience my be true, it is simply a myth that Macs are not susceptible to upgrade issues, viruses, bugs, performance issues, hardware failures, etc.
I work I deal with 40 windows based machines and 2 servers with Novell Linux. Servers work seamlessly for years. Every day something happens to one windows station. Realistically these stations are used for Internet-based applications and office documents.All these possibilities are there and a Linux-based station. The difference with windows is that they never break! Who does not use any special Windows based programs, but Internet mail and office- immediately removed windows and put Linux.No matter what distribution, Ubuntu, Debian, etc.The base of Linux is the best operating system ever times UNIX. The basis of windows is a swamp.For this only bathe it as torn underpants!
 
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FredA

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Sure, but it has never happened in a decade with 4 Mac platforms. My 5 or 6 PC's? Well that's a completely different story!

The fact that you own more PC's than Mac's speaks volumes....if I wanted a machine that only did what Steve did, then it would be expected to be more stable....if I wanted a universal platform, I would expect more capability and vulnerability.....
 

Tonimus

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I'll contribute to the Mac vs PC thread-jacking. Macs I've owned: Apple Classic II, IIci, IIsi, Powerbook Duos 230 and 270c with desktop dock, Bondi Blue iMac, Blueberry Clamshell iBook, iBook G3, iBook G4, PowerMac G4, MacBook C2D, and a MacBook Pro C2D. Mac OSes: Max OS 7.1 and every minor update through OSX 10.2, then every major update until 10.11. Windows based machines I've owned: Acer Aspire One netbook, Acer Revo, and most recently a Panasonic Toughbook CF-29. Windows OSes I've owned: XP, 7, 10. Experience with: '95 through 10. I've built a number of PC systems over the years.

Reason of retirement:
Classic II: Replaced by IIci.
IIci: Replaced by PBD with dock.
IIsi: Replaced by PBD with dock.
Powerbook Duo 230 w/ dock: Replaced by Color 270c
Duo 270c: End of 68K days. Replaced with iMac.
iMac: Replaced by Blueberry iBook.
Blueberry iBook: Replaced by G3 iBook. Sold to roommate and run until 2013 when hardware finally failed.
G3 iBook: Overclocked and cooked. My failure. Replaced by G4 iBook.
G4 iBook: Replaced by MacBook. Sold to roommate and run until hardware was no longer supported (even retroactively) in 2015, end of PPC days.
MacBook: Battery issue caused case cracking. Case replaced by Apple. Replaced by MacBook Pro. Sold to roommate and still running.
MacBook Pro: Still in use. Had a hard drive cable fail, was replaced by me.

Acer Aspire One: Hardware failure.
Acer Revo: 8 months old. Still in use.
Toughbook CF-29: Numerous upgrade issues. Now running Windows 7 without touchscreen driver, which will just not work.


I use my Macs to recover data from jacked Windows drives for friends when they brick their machines. There's few things that my Mac won't do that a Windows machine will. There's many more that a Mac will that a Windows machine won't. When it comes to stability, Mac wins. When it comes to 3rd party software, Windows wins. If you want the best of both worlds, dual boot your Mac with Windows. That being said, I've had to reinstall OSes in both kinds of machines, but I've never had an update or an install brick a Mac, whether mine or one I've worked on. Windows machines that were bricked could usually be repaired by getting back into the BIOS, but I've seen maybe two cases in twenty years where even that wouldn't work.
 

Rex R

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I tried installing the 1608 upgrade, it got to 97% hiccupped, started to restart...then nothing but a cursor(dos type). wound up reimaging the box and having to reset the boot device(in bios). only just got caught up.
Rex
 

mpitfield

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I work I deal with 40 windows based machines and 2 servers with Novell Linux. Servers work seamlessly for years. Every day something happens to one windows station. Realistically these stations are used for Internet-based applications and office documents.All these possibilities are there and a Linux-based station. The difference with windows is that they never break! Who does not use any special Windows based programs, but Internet mail and office- immediately removed windows and put Linux.No matter what distribution, Ubuntu, Debian, etc.The base of Linux is the best operating system ever times UNIX. The basis of windows is a swamp.For this only bathe it as torn underpants!
I currently support over 1000 Windows machines from XP to Windows 10, including over 50 Macs, over 150 Windows servers from 2003 to 2012R2, at 120 different locations for over 70 clients. That is what I currently support daily. I started off in the Novell world working for one of the first Novell shops in Canada working with the product from it's beginnings up to about 1999. I worked with some of the Linux distros, mainly the fedora core project evaluating that as an alternative to Windows. Finally I have been doing this for over 25 years now and have literally consulted on and dealt with thousands of different environments in all sectors from manufacturing to Healthcare and financial.

My statement to dixontj93060 is 100% factual, not an opinion, simply do a google search and step outside the limited experience you have of supporting 40 machines or a half dozen Macs you owned. I am not discounting or arguing that your experience is what it is, but it is hardly enough to have a complete picture, but you have an opinion and I get it. I am not Mac bashing or favouring the Windows O/S, I am simply stating that they are not as infallible as some of the Mac users believe, and this is systemic in the Mac culture. I should say I am typing this reply on a 2013 MacBook Air which I love and my wife and kids all have Macs as well as other Apple products, oh and I do not like Windows 10 or recommend anyone "upgrades" to it.

One thing people do not take into consideration when comparing Mac to a Windows based machine is that Apple sell a complete solution and Microsoft makes an O/S that is "compatible" with a wide range of hardware. The biggest problem I see is that consumers do not know enough about electronics manufacturing to properly evaluate a deal vs. crap quality, so they put price as the top consideration and buy crap. My guess is that if consumers who purchased Windows computers purchased something in the same price range as the Mac then there would be less problems reported on Windows machines; likely not less than Apple but certainly less.

As someone who regularly audits networks I can also tell you that competence plays a large role in issues. I started off in this industry working in the Enterprise and pubic sector however our focus is the SMB (Small Medium Business) market and sadly this sector is rich with incompetent IT people.

I can tell you from a technicians perspective working on a Mac vs. Widows hardware is a pain, I have an iMac on my bench that likely has a bad HD and if you have every replaced a HD in a Windows machine you know it's 5 maybe 10 min from start to finish, not so on an iMac. So in my opinion serviceability is one of the biggest drawbacks on some Apple products but beyond that in a corporate environment manageability is also an issue.
 

samb

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I currently support over 1000 Windows machines from XP to Windows 10, including over 50 Macs, over 150 Windows servers from 2003 to 2012R2, at 120 different locations for over 70 clients. That is what I currently support daily. I started off in the Novell world working for one of the first Novell shops in Canada working with the product from it's beginnings up to about 1999. I worked with some of the Linux distros, mainly the fedora core project evaluating that as an alternative to Windows. Finally I have been doing this for over 25 years now and have literally consulted on and dealt with thousands of different environments in all sectors from manufacturing to Healthcare and financial.

My statement to dixontj93060 is 100% factual, not an opinion, simply do a google search and step outside the limited experience you have of supporting 40 machines or a half dozen Macs you owned. I am not discounting or arguing that your experience is what it is, but it is hardly enough to have a complete picture, but you have an opinion and I get it. I am not Mac bashing or favouring the Windows O/S, I am simply stating that they are not as infallible as some of the Mac users believe, and this is systemic in the Mac culture. I should say I am typing this reply on a 2013 MacBook Air which I love and my wife and kids all have Macs as well as other Apple products, oh and I do not like Windows 10 or recommend anyone "upgrades" to it.

One thing people do not take into consideration when comparing Mac to a Windows based machine is that Apple sell a complete solution and Microsoft makes an O/S that is "compatible" with a wide range of hardware. The biggest problem I see is that consumers do not know enough about electronics manufacturing to properly evaluate a deal vs. crap quality, so they put price as the top consideration and buy crap. My guess is that if consumers who purchased Windows computers purchased something in the same price range as the Mac then there would be less problems reported on Windows machines; likely not less than Apple but certainly less.

As someone who regularly audits networks I can also tell you that competence plays a large role in issues. I started off in this industry working in the Enterprise and pubic sector however our focus is the SMB (Small Medium Business) market and sadly this sector is rich with incompetent IT people.

I can tell you from a technicians perspective working on a Mac vs. Widows hardware is a pain, I have an iMac on my bench that likely has a bad HD and if you have every replaced a HD in a Windows machine you know it's 5 maybe 10 min from start to finish, not so on an iMac. So in my opinion serviceability is one of the biggest drawbacks on some Apple products but beyond that in a corporate environment manageability is also an issue.
Um... ok. Can you lay your hands on Dr Wogz' machine and unbrick it then ? :wink:

FWIW I have "just said no" to the Win10 upgrade on my 5 year old ASUS box. Chuggin' along fine with Win7. Not a MAC guy but my understanding is that as a "closed" system hardware upgrades by mere mortals are more difficult by design.
 
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dr wogz

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Good news... Wel, better news.

Turns out the updates just stalled.. turned off the machine, turned it back on, and they resumed, only to stall again. But all seems to be up & running. SO, no major loss or pain.

But sadly, this shouldn't have happened in the first place. An update should stall when the screen saver kicks in, or a packet gets lost during download or server back-log.. And again, it seems a lot of the update is really for a few "features" (and I use that term lightly!!) to be better competitive with Mac & Google; Cortana, M$ shop, cloud storage, and 'voice recognition' to name a few others. Quite frankly, none of these I really need, want, or expect to use.

And the fact that this new update / new windows kinda forces the purchase of a new machine for many. That's what really galls me, having a machine just at the 5 year mark, but is considered obsolete. Or, expected to upgrade every 1 or 2 years at the least..
 

AlfaBrewer

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The guy we bought my wife's laptop from (small local shop) has told all of his clients to not go to Windows 10.
 

Flyfalcons

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I haven't had issues with 10 yet (aside from my touchpad gestures going wonky until I updated the driver), but I still wish I had just kept 8.1 with Classic Shell.
 

mpitfield

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Um... ok. Can you lay your hands on Dr Wogz' machine and unbrick it then ? :wink:

FWIW I have "just said no" to the Win10 upgrade on my 5 year old ASUS box. Chuggin' along fine with Win7. Not a MAC guy but my understanding is that as a "closed" system hardware upgrades by mere mortals are more difficult by design.
Glad to hear you opted out of Windows 10.

Truthfully I have fairly limited experience on Windows 10 at this stage.

My issues with W10 have been around Cortana, Microsoft's insistence on managing updates and Microsoft's EULA. The first two we have the tools to control, although it irritates me to no end on how arrogant and aggressive Microsoft has become about getting as close to the end user as possible. I do have concerns about the security of how a user authenticates to the MS account, which is now required. The issue is that it is easily subject to a brute force attack as their password policy allows unlimited attempts and does not have a lockout policy, I suspect MS will address this shortly if not already.

From a corporate perspective we have privacy concerns with the EULA and there is currently no way around this, that is unless the EULA is determined to be in contravention of privacy laws. This just happened in France but in Canada at least we continue to do nothing about it, something I would like to see more noise on the subject.
 

dr wogz

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Bing sucks.. Why would / should Cortana be any better? (Than Bing or their competition, namely Siri?!?)
 

dixontj93060

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I currently support over 1000 Windows machines from XP to Windows 10, including over 50 Macs, over 150 Windows servers from 2003 to 2012R2, at 120 different locations for over 70 clients. That is what I currently support daily. I started off in the Novell world working for one of the first Novell shops in Canada working with the product from it's beginnings up to about 1999. I worked with some of the Linux distros, mainly the fedora core project evaluating that as an alternative to Windows. Finally I have been doing this for over 25 years now and have literally consulted on and dealt with thousands of different environments in all sectors from manufacturing to Healthcare and financial.

My statement to dixontj93060 is 100% factual, not an opinion, simply do a google search and step outside the limited experience you have of supporting 40 machines or a half dozen Macs you owned. I am not discounting or arguing that your experience is what it is, but it is hardly enough to have a complete picture, but you have an opinion and I get it. I am not Mac bashing or favouring the Windows O/S, I am simply stating that they are not as infallible as some of the Mac users believe, and this is systemic in the Mac culture. I should say I am typing this reply on a 2013 MacBook Air which I love and my wife and kids all have Macs as well as other Apple products, oh and I do not like Windows 10 or recommend anyone "upgrades" to it.

One thing people do not take into consideration when comparing Mac to a Windows based machine is that Apple sell a complete solution and Microsoft makes an O/S that is "compatible" with a wide range of hardware. The biggest problem I see is that consumers do not know enough about electronics manufacturing to properly evaluate a deal vs. crap quality, so they put price as the top consideration and buy crap. My guess is that if consumers who purchased Windows computers purchased something in the same price range as the Mac then there would be less problems reported on Windows machines; likely not less than Apple but certainly less.

As someone who regularly audits networks I can also tell you that competence plays a large role in issues. I started off in this industry working in the Enterprise and pubic sector however our focus is the SMB (Small Medium Business) market and sadly this sector is rich with incompetent IT people.

I can tell you from a technicians perspective working on a Mac vs. Widows hardware is a pain, I have an iMac on my bench that likely has a bad HD and if you have every replaced a HD in a Windows machine you know it's 5 maybe 10 min from start to finish, not so on an iMac. So in my opinion serviceability is one of the biggest drawbacks on some Apple products but beyond that in a corporate environment manageability is also an issue.
Actually I get all this. Extremely familiar with software/hardware platforms up through large switching systems like the big Cisco ASR routers. Saying that, as a CEO of a small business (not part of the 6 or 7 personal computers I have), it becomes a odds / probability thing. Less attacks on Macs/UNIX platforms and subsequently less issues. Closed platform, again less issues. Do we use Windows computers, absolutely; probably 3:1 vs Mac. We don't designate one or the other and with our cloud based "everything", we don't care what hardware/software is on the desk as long as it has adequate virus/malware protection (although we firewall this also at the cloud level), but I can say that the Windows users have many more headaches and lost productivity than the Mac users.
 
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dhbarr

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OpenBSD on the perimeter, FreeBSD for storage, Windows for the domain controller, appropriate desktops, laptops, or chrome devices for each Dept as necessary. Too controversial?
 

Tonimus

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I can tell you from a technicians perspective working on a Mac vs. Widows hardware is a pain, I have an iMac on my bench that likely has a bad HD and if you have every replaced a HD in a Windows machine you know it's 5 maybe 10 min from start to finish, not so on an iMac. So in my opinion serviceability is one of the biggest drawbacks on some Apple products but beyond that in a corporate environment manageability is also an issue.
^Truth with the all-in-ones. And I've made a fair amount of money/trade servicing them because of the difficulty. They have gotten better about HDD and RAM upgrades than they were for a while. Just about everything after the color changeover (Bondi Blue iMac) required some serious disassembly. The iBooks in particular, you had to pop the main case open, at the risk of cracking it, to do a swap. Thankfully on the newer generation MacBooks, it is much simpler.
 

dixontj93060

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Got some time to look at my laptops. This whole thread was confusing from the start because it is labeled (1067) Anniversary edition and I had thought the Win10 versioning was way past that, and it is, mine is 1511. Then realized the Anniversary update is 1607.
 

H_Rocket

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Curious

Are most people here using the Home, Pro, or other editions when they report these problems? I see none of them with Pro and Enterprise - Of course I have access to these and many don't.
 

timbucktoo

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I am using WIN10 Home. Have had zero problems since I upgraded earlier this year.
 

Rex R

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was reading this thread when, I got a request from macrohard to rate and comment on MH edge browser...my reply a lot more likely to recommend their browser than version 1607(which I have not been offered yet, thus can't speak from experience). thought the timing was amusing.
Rex
 

markkoelsch

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Curious

Are most people here using the Home, Pro, or other editions when they report these problems? I see none of them with Pro and Enterprise - Of course I have access to these and many don't.
I find it interesting too, Al. I am running Enterprise on my 7 year old home desktop, and it runs Win 10 well ( better than I anticipated). I did replace a couple of the drivers with manufacturer provided ( video card mostly). I have a first gen i7 laptop, and I am running Win 10 pro on it well. I needed a couple hardware specific drivers there too.

Overall, as an IT veteran of 23 years I think it is a pretty solid OS. Perfect no, but I think some of that is likely due to folks running on older hardware.

There are no perfect operating systems. OSX, being around as long as it's many iterations have been, still has occasional issue binding, or staying bound, to a Microsoft domain. They very tightly control what goes into their ecosystem in terms of hardware and software. That brings stability and inflexibility. It works, but I still like Windows better.

I do like Ubuntu.
 

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