Thank you! and these will ignite small Aerotech F motors ok ?
Will 9V light a G80?
- Thread starter Foreyt
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I have two of these controllers. The one I use most has a 1250 mAh LiPoly in it, as I've noted before. The other runs on six Duracell C cells. I think but I'm not positive (it's been awhile) that a TARC team I loaned the C-cell-powered one to used it to fire a Copperhead or two. If you're new to LiPolys and how to use them, I'd try with good quality C cells first to see if that is "good enough".
Sorry about not filling in that gap. I've been using LiPolys since ~2002 in electric RC models, so I have a bunch of charging tools on hand and I forget that not everyone does.
Yes, a special charger is most definitely required. You want one that can balance the cells as it charges. If you have a 12V DC power supply or battery easily available, something as simple as this will work: https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy...html?queryID=c3e7bf573bb973a98acd8ccb958312f2 I have one of these and it is good enough if you're patient.
If you need it to be AC powered, things get complicated. HobbyKing doesn't have anything under $100. On Amazon there is a huge selection but none are ones I'm familiar with. I have two 12V power supplies in my hobby room and I run my DC chargers off of these, so I haven't tried many AC/DC chargers that can charge lithiums.
Added: Sonic Igniters were designed to light Aerotech single use motors that were relabeled with the Estes brand, firing them from the PSII controller with six C-cells in it. The relabeled motors included White Lightning, Blue Thunder and Fast Jack propellants. So, that combo should work OK - and more easily than using a Copperhead, whether you have the proper clip or do one of the tricks folks do to avoid using it. They don't have a huge amount of pyrogen on them, though, so if you're trying to light a White Lighting motor that is old enough to have come with a Copperhead, I think you're going to get frustrated.
jimzcatz
Boss, Carolina Rocket Mafia
In response to the original question, 9 volts will light a dozen G80s with the proper ematchs for ignitors.
To this and the original quesition by @Foreyt
I don't know whats recomended, or what is safe, but I do have a little expirience. I have used teh Pro Series 2 Launch controller with the suggested C batteries to launch several composite aerotech motors including a G80, and some F's. However, If I remember correctly, when I launched the G80 it took about 5 tries of rienserting the igniter and checking wires before it finnaly went. I don't know if this was related, or if I just didn't have proper continuty, but thats what happend. It takes a second, and you have to hold the button down a while, but it will eventually launch in my expirience. I have done this with F motors with similar results. It works, but I would prefer something stronger. All this was done with the included Aerotech igniters (don't know what they're called) that were with the motor. It sounds like the Sonic igniters are a much better way to go. Hope this helps.
This really do help, Thank You !
I modified a PSII controller to connect to an external 12v 7Ah SLA battery. It has no problem lighting AT G80s with First Fire Jrs.
I used 18AWG wire, with an inline 10A circuit breaker on the battery leads. The cable to the launch pad is 100' of 16/2 medium-duty extension cord.
FWIW, the JST connector inside the PSII uses 24AWG wiring, which makes it the weak link for connected batts in the stock controller. I bypassed the JST entirely, and soldered the 18AWG battery connection directly to the circuit board.
I used 18AWG wire, with an inline 10A circuit breaker on the battery leads. The cable to the launch pad is 100' of 16/2 medium-duty extension cord.
FWIW, the JST connector inside the PSII uses 24AWG wiring, which makes it the weak link for connected batts in the stock controller. I bypassed the JST entirely, and soldered the 18AWG battery connection directly to the circuit board.
I absolutely agree with this. The only way this setup gets away with it is that one generally is only pushing current through there for a fraction of a second at a time.
Yes this looks awesome, amazing mod. I need something small though just to fire small/medium engines rocket and some clusters with my 4 year old. Still can't decide either to get PSII or a GO BOX launch controller. I do not want to carry a heavy 12v battery though
Do not know what to dowaltr
Well-Known Member
A 1000 to 2000mA-Hr LiPo 3S battery is much smaller and lighter and will fire almost all igniters.
Example:
Spec.
Capacity: 1600mAh
Voltage: 3S1P / 3 Cell / 11.1V
Discharge: 25C Constant / 50C Burst
Weight: 143g (including wire, plug & case)
Dimensions: 120x34x18mm
Balance Plug: JST-XH
Discharge Plug: XT60
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy...D=30627&indexName=hbk_live_products_analytics
Example:
Spec.
Capacity: 1600mAh
Voltage: 3S1P / 3 Cell / 11.1V
Discharge: 25C Constant / 50C Burst
Weight: 143g (including wire, plug & case)
Dimensions: 120x34x18mm
Balance Plug: JST-XH
Discharge Plug: XT60
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy...D=30627&indexName=hbk_live_products_analytics
Go Box requires some kind of external battery.
Of course @waltr recommended something similar to what I did earlier in the thread…all of the same caveats (discharge plug adapter, charging considerations) apply there as well, though it might be easier to create something to go from the XT-60 on @waltr‘s recommendation (or the one I gave you) and the battery clip input on the Go Box rather than trying to get something to go to the little orange JST, and have it all fit inside the battery compartment of the PSII controller.
Of course @waltr recommended something similar to what I did earlier in the thread…all of the same caveats (discharge plug adapter, charging considerations) apply there as well, though it might be easier to create something to go from the XT-60 on @waltr‘s recommendation (or the one I gave you) and the battery clip input on the Go Box rather than trying to get something to go to the little orange JST, and have it all fit inside the battery compartment of the PSII controller.
@maxim and @Foreyt --
If you're going to use a PSII controller with either a LIPO or an external SLA (or any other type of batt), and you don't want to modify the internal wiring like I did, this is the male connector you'll need (JST-RCY) to plug into the PSII's internal female connector:
https://www.amazon.com/Silicone-Connector-SIM-NAT-Connectors/dp/B071XN7C43
If the connector on the LIPO isn't a JST-RCY type, cut it off and splice on the one from Amazon.
If you're going to use a PSII controller with either a LIPO or an external SLA (or any other type of batt), and you don't want to modify the internal wiring like I did, this is the male connector you'll need (JST-RCY) to plug into the PSII's internal female connector:
https://www.amazon.com/Silicone-Connector-SIM-NAT-Connectors/dp/B071XN7C43
If the connector on the LIPO isn't a JST-RCY type, cut it off and splice on the one from Amazon.
Thank you, this is starting to make sense to me now. So ideally I would need to buy a battery with JST connector correct? is any jst battery, will this one for example work?
https://www.batteryspecialist.ca/elk-1208j2-12v-0-8ah-replacement-battery-ub1208-w-jst-connector/
Spitfire222
I only lawn-darted once
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After a few years on this forum, it's become clear that rocketeers seemingly love to over-think and/or overcomplicate things. With the correct Lipo battery, there should be no reason to modify the Estes Pro Series II launch controller or a battery to fit properly. As mentioned, a small, high-discharge Lipo battery with a JST RCY connector (the small, red ones) like THIS one or THIS one will plug and play seamlessly and provide a good amount of current to light ignitors (I have not tried all of them). You will need a Lipo specific charger, but if this is your only Lipo battery, you don't need anything special, and a simple one like THIS will suffice.
Here's a photo of the battery/setup I use in my PSII launcher. It doesn't need to be more complicated than this.
Here's a photo of the battery/setup I use in my PSII launcher. It doesn't need to be more complicated than this.
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Every one of the Hobby King links posted in this thread (batteries and hardware) show as "backorder". Any other sources?
Hans.
Hans.
I usually just get batteries from Amazon. They carry a bunch of the same ones that Hobby King has but you don't have to worry about it only being in stock in Hong Kong or something.
Spitfire222
I only lawn-darted once
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I apologize, I didn't notice that when I searched for links. Truth be told, my battery was sourced from my collection of Lipos that I purchased 5-10 years ago for my RC planes. Still, there should be some avenues to search for and purchase these types of batteries elsewhere, like Antares mentioned.
waltr
Well-Known Member
The Hobby King LiPo I linked to is in stock.
They have many LiPos that will fit this launched. Any 3S LiPo from 500 to 3000mA-Hr and at least 3Amp output ( Multiple capacity times the C rating to get max output current) will work.
They have a parameter search to narrow which ones are shown.
Maybe the bigger task is finding one with a connector that matches the launch controller.
Of course, there is Amazon and ebay plus many other RC hobby suppliers that carry LiPos that will work.
They have many LiPos that will fit this launched. Any 3S LiPo from 500 to 3000mA-Hr and at least 3Amp output ( Multiple capacity times the C rating to get max output current) will work.
They have a parameter search to narrow which ones are shown.
Maybe the bigger task is finding one with a connector that matches the launch controller.
Of course, there is Amazon and ebay plus many other RC hobby suppliers that carry LiPos that will work.
No, that's not the battery you want, or the connector.
Before diving deeper into what I think you need, I have to ask what igniters you're using. The OP on this thread mentioned G80 motors, which means he's using First Fire Jrs (or equivalent) igniters. Those need 3 amps for reliable ignition. A LIPO will work, but not the .85Ah LIPO @Spitfire222 mentions in post #44 above. You'll be sitting on the launch button all day before a First Fire Jr lights up.
If you're using igniters for LPR motors (A-D), you can most likely get by with the nine 1.5v C batteries the PSII was designed for.
If you're using First Fire Minis or Jrs, you might want to go with more battery. If that's the case, read on.
Starting with the connector, the PSII requires this type of connector (JST-RCY):
https://www.amazon.com/Silicone-Connector-SIM-NAT-Connectors/dp/B071XN7C43
If you can find a LIPO that has that connector, great. Otherwise, you'll be splicing that connector onto whatever LIPO you end up with.
Keep in mind that there are 12 different JST connector types. The PSII needs a JST-RCY. Here's a chart for reference:
https://core-electronics.com.au/guides/Identify-Electrical-Connectors/#JST
Okay, that covers the connector. Now, the battery.
A lot of people on this forum like LIPOs. I'm not one of them. LIPOs are finicky when it comes to charging and storing. I prefer a sealed lead acid (SLA) battery because a) I can get all the amps I need, and b) charging is no more tedious than with a car battery.
This is what I use:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Mighty-Max...attery-for-Verizon-FiOS-PX12072-HG/1002408498
Yes, it's bigger than a LIPO. A lot bigger. And much heavier. It's a miniature car battery. Personally, I don't scrimp on size and capacity just to get something compact. I want amps. And the easiest way to get those is to go SLA.
If you go with an SLA with F1 or F2 terminals, you'll need disconnect-type wire connectors like these:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Gardner-Be...Female-Disconnect-0-25-in-Tab-15PK/5005437285
And butt connectors like these:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-100-Count-Butt-Splice-Wire-Connectors/999952958
Both of those need a wire crimper. If you don't have one, consider this:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Utilitech-Butt-Splice-Wire-Connectors/999953686
That's a crimper and both types of connectors.
After that, you'll need 18AWG red/black zip wire:
https://www.amazon.com/American-Gau...BCW/ref=d_pd_sbs_sccl_3_2/144-6574401-0120038
You'll only need 10 feet or so. Keep the rest around for when you decide to go farther than 30 feet from the controller to the launch pad.
Crimp the female disconnect connectors to one end of the 18AWG. The other end connects to the JST-RCY male plug with the butt connectors.
You should know that the JST-RCY is lightweight wire, much lighter than the 18AWG that you'll be joining. What I would do is strip 2" of insulation off the ends of the JST-RCY, twist the exposed wire, then fold it back on itself several times to build up the wire diameter. Then crimp.
That last thing you need to do if you're using an external battery with the PSII, is to cut a notch in the edge of the PSII battery cover for the JST-RCY wire to exit through.
All of that said, I need to reiterate that that's how I would do it if I wanted more battery than the stock PSII provides with the nine C batts. Is it complicated? Yes.
You really should ask yourself why someone would modify a PSII the way I did. I'm using First Fire Jr igniters, which are at the end of a 100' run to the launch rail—200' total length of 16/2 medium-duty extension cord.
Try that with your stock PSII, and a .85Ah LIPO. Let me know how it works.
That 850 mAh LiPoly pack will probably not do what you're trying to do at 100 feet away....though it might surprise you.
Actually for the OP and a FirstFire Jr. (which he did confirm he wanted to use in his second post....then he disappeared from this thread), that 850 mAh pack will probably do just fine. It's rated at 25C, so it should source 20A for at least a short time if asked to. Fortunately, rocket launching is a short duty cycle thing.
The JST-RCY connector and its wiring are the weak link in that chain, as has been noted a couple of times already in this thread. That said, I have a much older 1250 mAh 3s LiPoly in my PSII controller and have had no issues with any igniter I've tried, and this includes TARC teams using it to fire FF Jrs, and even a couple of the much-reviled Copperheads. I fly a lot and I need to charge this battery about once a year.
The real complication, as others have noted, is getting a pack connected to that little JST-RCY female in the PSII controller, and necessary charging infrastructure to support using a LiPoly battery, if it's not already to hand. Learning about balance charging and all that just to power a launch controller could be a daunting proposition.
Splicing a pigtail with the JST-RCY plug on it to the heavy wiring found on larger LiPoly packs for the RC vehicle market will be an interesting exercise in joining a tiny wire (what, ~24 gauge?) to a much larger one (~12-14 gauge). It can be done, but it won't be fun. That's where the discussion of adapters to go from XT-60 to JST-RCY came from.
Besides the old Electrifly 1250 mAh 3s pack I have in my PSII controller, I run my club's six-pad system off of a 3s 5AH battery from HobbyKing and my personal three-pad system off a 2700 mAh pack. I have also used an old Kokam 1250 mAh pack, one that is almost two decades old, on this system. My 3-pad system can fire all three pads at once (at ~30 feet) because I've used 16 gauge wiring from the controller on the table to the pads (though there are short lengths of smaller wire inside the control panel).
The club system uses an old 6-conductor communications cable....and THAT is the weak link with reapect to current there. The LiPoly battery delivers all the system can consume and is far easier to carry and store than the U1 lead acid battery the club was using on the system before.
But as I've also noted before in this thread, I came back to rocketry from flying electric RC airplanes since the early 1980s and have lots of chargers as the LiPoly revolution was well underway before rockets reclaimed my hobby life starting in 2009. That's also why I had the 1250 mAh 3s pack that's now in my most-used PSII controller already on hand when I got the controller.
Actually for the OP and a FirstFire Jr. (which he did confirm he wanted to use in his second post....then he disappeared from this thread), that 850 mAh pack will probably do just fine. It's rated at 25C, so it should source 20A for at least a short time if asked to. Fortunately, rocket launching is a short duty cycle thing.
The JST-RCY connector and its wiring are the weak link in that chain, as has been noted a couple of times already in this thread. That said, I have a much older 1250 mAh 3s LiPoly in my PSII controller and have had no issues with any igniter I've tried, and this includes TARC teams using it to fire FF Jrs, and even a couple of the much-reviled Copperheads. I fly a lot and I need to charge this battery about once a year.
The real complication, as others have noted, is getting a pack connected to that little JST-RCY female in the PSII controller, and necessary charging infrastructure to support using a LiPoly battery, if it's not already to hand. Learning about balance charging and all that just to power a launch controller could be a daunting proposition.
Splicing a pigtail with the JST-RCY plug on it to the heavy wiring found on larger LiPoly packs for the RC vehicle market will be an interesting exercise in joining a tiny wire (what, ~24 gauge?) to a much larger one (~12-14 gauge). It can be done, but it won't be fun. That's where the discussion of adapters to go from XT-60 to JST-RCY came from.
Besides the old Electrifly 1250 mAh 3s pack I have in my PSII controller, I run my club's six-pad system off of a 3s 5AH battery from HobbyKing and my personal three-pad system off a 2700 mAh pack. I have also used an old Kokam 1250 mAh pack, one that is almost two decades old, on this system. My 3-pad system can fire all three pads at once (at ~30 feet) because I've used 16 gauge wiring from the controller on the table to the pads (though there are short lengths of smaller wire inside the control panel).
The club system uses an old 6-conductor communications cable....and THAT is the weak link with reapect to current there. The LiPoly battery delivers all the system can consume and is far easier to carry and store than the U1 lead acid battery the club was using on the system before.
But as I've also noted before in this thread, I came back to rocketry from flying electric RC airplanes since the early 1980s and have lots of chargers as the LiPoly revolution was well underway before rockets reclaimed my hobby life starting in 2009. That's also why I had the 1250 mAh 3s pack that's now in my most-used PSII controller already on hand when I got the controller.
