Wildman's MACH 2 rocket

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Zeke Johnson said:
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If possible, can you post more detailed, close up pictures of your eBay? Or maybe add detailed info in the AV Bay thread (LOTS of good info here):

"The Avionics Bay Thread...Post your Photos!"

This is another example of keeping relevant info in a long running thread.

Your AV Bay is unique, and I believe a semi-detailed write up with close up photos would fit nicely in the AV Bay thread.

Zeke
Click to expand...
Both my avionics bay and I are flattered! I will definitely write up a detailed report on how I built and use it. One of the reasons why I love md rockets, specifically 54mm and under, is it forces you to come up with new creative ideas and thinking outside the box is required haha.
 
Okay so the Eggfinder mini gps is back in stock, happened a while ago but forgot to check lol, so I got the Bluetooth dongle starter set with a longer range antenna and connector for the receiver as well as the Eggtimer Quantum flight computer. I ordered a longer av bay with fiberglass bulkplates instead of the aluminum ones because I was scared the signal could get messed up somehow. The new av bay sled has been printed and is not as unique as the og version but is overall better looking and more functional imo. Also if anyone has recommendations on camera view holes or what ever you would call that it would be appreciated. I am split between using a cesaroni K261 or an aerotech K270 but I am leaning towards cesaroni because the cost is lower which means I could use a md mr enabling a low altitude test flight so I could verify everything works. I hope to launch this on memorial day weekend at the San Luis valley rocketeers launch in Alamosa, Co. Unfortunately my mentor who helped me through high power rocketry and got me inspired to do more, Brian H, has some health concerns right now so send good wishes his way. You may know him as being the genius behind Arc Ignition technologies and the inventor of the lightning bug altimeter. He is probably one of if not the smartest people I've met and he has helped me out so much with my jr l1 cert as well as rocketry as a whole. If you want to support him or you just want a super nice altimeter that will save you a lot of money I would highly recommend you purchase the lightning bug altimeter from apogee rocket components or directly from his site. Anyways, he might have a doctor's appointment the day of the launch and even if he doesn't he has a lot on his plate right now so I was wondering if anyone who is Tripoli l2 will be at the launch and is willing to observe me taking the test and inspect the mach 2 before flight.
 
Nice build Rocketmandan! I'm a bit behind on your part of the thread, and should be no worries revisiting something that was posted even years ago. Really, if someone started a new thread every time they started a project, there would be a lot more threads.

I suggest the FeatherWeight over Eggfinder (I use both) for anything over 10K'. I still need to test the Eggfinder HAM version, and Cris says it should have twice the range. Still, you will probably get cleaner track points using the FW. I use both and create tracks using GoogleEarth.
Use care with some of the proprietary LiPo battery connectors. The red JST connectors are reliable, but I've seen others that are not as secure. I replace them with JST's for charging and use.
Aluminum bulkheads and the all-thread should be no problem. However, installation of the GPS inside the nose is best if the nose material is OK for RF.
For the FW, if you don't have an iPhone, I suggest a refurbished/used iPad. The iPad would be a lot more useful for other things.

I understand completely if you don't want to do this, but I always suggest flying a new GPS on a test flight when you can still visually track the rocket. The most important thing with any GPS is to gain experience using it (in the same configuration & rocket) before the "big" flight.
 
Thanks Richard! I was thinking about using the featherweight gps but I emailed Chris about the range of the mini gps and the better receiver antenna and he said he had people, including himself, track rockets past 40k easily. I know the featherweight can practically track to the other end of the milky way but I thought it was a little pricey for me and I like how the Eggtimers work. I can use my phone, LCD and phone, or gps LCD. As for the battery situation I am going to use tiny whoop drone batteries. These batteries have an excellent form factor as well as decent specs 4.1 hv and 330 mAh. I know one these batteries per unit is not enough so that's why I am using 4. I got everything wired in series with a small form factor and the av bay is looking good. And I am definitely going to do a 'warm up' flight on a AT I115w so I can make sure the tracker works.
 
Got to hand it to you and all the others that do minimum diameter stuff. The closest I get to that is 54mm in a 3" airframe.
I have not experienced the success that Cris and others had with the Eggfinder, but I'm still trying! Btw, I tried a panel antenna for the receiver and it didn't seem to work any better.
Previously, I used a CommSpec for back up to GPS. Now, I run two different GPS units and will be using the FW with the Eggfinder HAM. I'll compare and post the tracks somewhere on TRF.
Sandwiching batteries works great; they have very little room to go anywhere. Here's a photo of a Marsa with the tilt module and batteries between the G-10 sides. The Eggfinder Proton/PF Minitimer on the table also has the battery compartment on the sled. If you are in a cold climate, I bet the extra insulation would also help keep the batteries warm. LiPo's work best around 50C.

Recently I was wondering about having the GPS transmitting antenna next to the aluminum all-thread. So, I did some testing with the 900 MHz Eggfinder including spinning the electronics bay up to 3 Hz (180 rpm), and found no problems with the reception of the signal.
 

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Thank you for testing to see if the all thread rod would effect the range of the gps transmitters. I have been wondering about how the all thread could mess up the signal so that gives me some relief. I will be testing it on a line of sight flight just to be sure though. That's a bummer that you haven't been getting good range on the eggfinders. Were you using the standard tx or the mini because I heard the mini antenna works a lot better. Also I don't think I am using a panel antenna I think it is something else. I was also thinking the same thing about insulating the lipos (temperature at 26,000' msl isn't like the Bahamas lol). I like the av bay design you chose btw. It has a very clean design to it. I will report back here on everything is built and ground tested.
 
I was using the standard TX/LCD RX combo and antennas, except for the flight using the panel antenna. I don't want to suggest that the result was unacceptable, just that I've never got a packet during HP ascent, and lost the signal at about 2 miles during recovery on one flight. Still, have not lost a rocket, and continue to use the Eggfinder!

So, the subject of temperature effect at high alt is interesting. While the ambient temperature at altitude is well known, its affect on the internal bay temperature and batteries is not. Although altimeters such as the PerfectFlite do record the temperature, I haven't seen any posts on this. From what I have seen, the bay temperature is stable or actually goes up.
This would be a great subject on TRF; internal bay temperature and affect on LiPo batteries during high-alt flight. I consider high-alt to be 50K' and more, but it's still plenty cold at 20K'. Great Arduino based project with some temperature and voltage readings and a data logger.
 
Richard Dierking said:
I was using the standard TX/LCD RX combo and antennas, except for the flight using the panel antenna. I don't want to suggest that the result was unacceptable, just that I've never got a packet during HP ascent, and lost the signal at about 2 miles during recovery on one flight. Still, have not lost a rocket, and continue to use the Eggfinder!

So, the subject of temperature effect at high alt is interesting. While the ambient temperature at altitude is well known, its affect on the internal bay temperature and batteries is not. Although altimeters such as the PerfectFlite do record the temperature, I haven't seen any posts on this. From what I have seen, the bay temperature is stable or actually goes up.
This would be a great subject on TRF; internal bay temperature and affect on LiPo batteries during high-alt flight. I consider high-alt to be 50K' and more, but it's still plenty cold at 20K'. Great Arduino based project with some temperature and voltage readings and a data logger.
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That would be a pretty interesting experiment. I have been wondering the same thing during transitions through mach.
 
Rocketman_dan said:
I thought I read somewhere that I needed two witnesses for the test but maybe that was just for the rso inspection before flight.
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For a Tripoli L2 Certification, the test is given by a single Prefect, TAP, or Director. The flight must be witnessed by one of those as well. Two witnesses are not needed for any Tripoli certification flight, but two TAPs must sign off for L3 design and construction.
NAR has requirements for two witnesses under certain circumstances.
 
Steve Shannon said:
For a Tripoli L2 Certification, the test is given by a single Prefect, TAP, or Director. The flight must be witnessed by one of those as well. Two witnesses are not needed for any Tripoli certification flight, but two TAPs must sign off for L3 design and construction.
NAR has requirements for two witnesses under certain circumstances.
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This is for the Tripoli mentorship program test not l2 as I am 16 right now. I tried to talk with NAR and they aren't budging on an early l2 even though I am turning 17 soon. Still no reply from Tripoli yet. Also, does anyone know if having a jr l1 cert from NAR transfer over to Tripoli so I wouldn't have to take the test. Tripoli is being very slow with getting back to me so I am wondering if anyone else knows.
 
Richard Dierking said:
I was using the standard TX/LCD RX combo and antennas, except for the flight using the panel antenna. I don't want to suggest that the result was unacceptable, just that I've never got a packet during HP ascent, and lost the signal at about 2 miles during recovery on one flight. Still, have not lost a rocket, and continue to use the Eggfinder!

So, the subject of temperature effect at high alt is interesting. While the ambient temperature at altitude is well known, its affect on the internal bay temperature and batteries is not. Although altimeters such as the PerfectFlite do record the temperature, I haven't seen any posts on this. From what I have seen, the bay temperature is stable or actually goes up.
This would be a great subject on TRF; internal bay temperature and affect on LiPo batteries during high-alt flight. I consider high-alt to be 50K' and more, but it's still plenty cold at 20K'. Great Arduino based project with some temperature and voltage readings and a data logger.
Click to expand...
Your rocket simply isn’t at that altitude long enough for temperature to have an adverse effect. Relatively warm air is venting out of the av-bay on the way up which reduces convective heat loss. Conductive heat loss isn’t really a factor since your electronics and batteries are usually anchored near thermal masses of plywood or G10, and the loss via radiation is relatively slow given the time at those lower ambient temperatures.
On the way back down, cooler air is drawn into the av-bay, but again, I doubt that the time spent at that altitude is sufficient to cause problems. Even in space the problem is frequently that excess heat needs to be shed rather than loss of heat.
 
Rocketman_dan said:
This is for the Tripoli mentorship program test not l2 as I am 16 right now. I tried to talk with NAR and they aren't budging on an early l2 even though I am turning 17 soon. Still no reply from Tripoli yet. Also, does anyone know if having a jr l1 cert from NAR transfer over to Tripoli so I wouldn't have to take the test. Tripoli is being very slow with getting back to me so I am wondering if anyone else knows.
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1. The witness requirements for TMT are exactly the same as for L1 and L2: one Prefect, TAP, or Director.
2. Why work so hard avoiding the test? The TMT study guide has all the answers. If you have taken the NAR Jr. L1 test and passed your Jr. L1 flight for NAR then your Jr. L1 transfers. NAR now gives a test also so that we can recognize each other’s junior level programs.
3. Neither organization can certify someone under 18. That’s the law wherever NFPA 1127 has been adopted, which is most places and everywhere CPSC is effective, which is the United States.
 
Steve Shannon said:
1. The witness requirements for TMT are exactly the same as for L1 and L2: one Prefect, TAP, or Director.
2. Why work so hard avoiding the test? The TMT study guide has all the answers. If you have taken the NAR Jr. L1 test and passed your Jr. L1 flight for NAR then your Jr. L1 transfers. NAR now gives a test also so that we can recognize each other’s junior level programs.
3. Neither organization can certify someone under 18. That’s the law wherever NFPA 1127 has been adopted, which is most places and everywhere CPSC is effective, which is the United States.
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Thanks for the info and I am not working hard to avoid the test. I have been studying for it and I believe I am prepared. I was just wondering if the jr certifications were transferable.
 
Rocketman_dan said:
Okay thanks. I was just wondering how that would work if they were transferable but I am still going to take the test so I guess it doesn't really matter.
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We worked with NAR to make the requirements similar so we could recognize each other’s junior programs. We knew there would be a few people who would transfer in from the NAR even though they didn’t take the test, but it’s a small number so we didn’t sweat that detail. I like to convince people to take the test anyway because it helps to understand the rules we have to follow.
Welcome to Tripoli!
 
Steve Shannon said:
We worked with NAR to make the requirements similar so we could recognize each other’s junior programs. We knew there would be a few people who would transfer in from the NAR even though they didn’t take the test, but it’s a small number so we didn’t sweat that detail. I like to convince people to take the test anyway because it helps to understand the rules we have to follow.
Welcome to Tripoli!
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Thank you! I will still take the test because that would have been a waste of studying. Definitely glad Tripoli gives me the ability to fly bigger motors! Sorry for another question but when I was on the study page for the test I saw two different sources. One stating that I can purchase the motor and one stating I can't. Is it possible to buy my own propellant or does my mentor have to do it?
 
Rocketman_dan said:
Thank you! I will still take the test because that would have been a waste of studying. Definitely glad Tripoli gives me the ability to fly bigger motors! Sorry for another question but when I was on the study page for the test I saw two different sources. One stating that I can purchase the motor and one stating I can't. Is it possible to buy my own propellant or does my mentor have to do it?
Click to expand...
It’s illegal to sell a high power motor to someone under 18, so your mentor or another certified adult would have to buy it. Please let me know which wording on the study page was incorrect and we’ll get it fixed.
 
Steve Shannon said:
It’s illegal to sell a high power motor to someone under 18, so your mentor or another certified adult would have to buy it. Please let me know which wording on the study page was incorrect and we’ll get it fixed.
Click to expand...
That was my bad I read it incorrectly. I was reading the rules for the TMP and didn't read the part about purchasing motors correctly. Sorry about that.:facepalm:
 
Just finished soldering the Eggtimer Quantum and Eggfinder mini. They work great and it was not nearly as hard as I thought it would be to build these. I still need to ground test but I am still undecided on what to use to hold the BP for the drogue charge. I was going to use a test tube with a tiny bit of masking tape over the lid but since this rocket is going to reach around 26k' msl I am worried the BP won't burn all the way. I have seen threads where people used a rubber tube with glue on either side so it expands a little allowing the BP to burn all the way. If anyone has any suggestions let me know. Also there is very little space between the md retainer and the aft end of the e bay so I don't think it will take that much force to separate.
 
Right now I am leaning towards using vinyl tubing with hot glue on one end and the igniter and electrical tape on the other. I think if I make the tube long enough that should help with all the BP burning.
 
The Mach 2 finally took flight at NSL this weekend after 6 hours of waiting and talking with TAPs about the mentorship program and if I was allowed to fly. The apogee according to the gps was 20,480ft and the quantum said it was 20,226 ft. I think I forgot to reset the gps altitude in the rocket locator app so that was where the difference in apogee was. It flew on a cti K261 and I loved the long burn that seemed to never end. The slow acceleration to mach 1.4 was stable and the rocket looked like it didn't even roll. The gps maintained a stable connection the whole flight and it was a lengthy but easy recovery 2.07 miles away (my highest flight before this was 3k so I was not used to walking a while for a rocket!). Sadly, the onboard video file was corrupted because I was so excited when I got to the rocket that I didn't stop the camera from recording. Basically, it deleted the video file of the launch. Lesson learned lol. Thanks Will for being an awesome mentor and turning on the electronics and stuff because I wasn't allowed to (strange rule). Also thanks to Eggtimer rocketry for making an awesome gps tracker and altimeter kit! The mini tx antenna was exactly where it wasn't supposed to be in the av bay, but it still brought me right to the rocket 2 miles away and maintained connection at 20K! After I repaint the fin can I will fly this guy again on the same motor but with some fly away rail guides so I don't take the finish off again.
 

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Time to add some stuff to the check list for next time.
20K'+ is impressive. Nicely done.

I suggest using MapSphere with the Eggfinder to record/save the GPS log and put it on GoogleEarth. Or, get yourself a FW GPS! Makes it much easier to save and use the GPS flight log.
Glad to see events like NSL happening again!
 
Richard Dierking said:
Time to add some stuff to the check list for next time.
20K'+ is impressive. Nicely done.

I suggest using MapSphere with the Eggfinder to record/save the GPS log and put it on GoogleEarth. Or, get yourself a FW GPS! Makes it much easier to save and use the GPS flight log.
Glad to see events like NSL happening again!
Click to expand...
Thanks! I was going to use those but the GPS rocket locator got updated so you can now use google maps with it and record flight paths. I had the flight path recording off by accident but I still got the apogee altitude.
Also, the google maps feature gives you names of all the roads and shows you where to go to get your rocket the fastest.
 

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