Wildman two stage

[Performance nut]

Anyone build and fly one of these? I downloaded the RockSim file and did some simulations. This sucker gets way up there according to the simulation on a K and L engine. I'm wondering if the simulations are close and if anyone has gotten their rocket back after one of this super high flights.

 

[JDcluster]

Which size rocket are we talking; 2,3, or 4" diameter?
Check the lift off weights. I find that 99% of the time, most files created are grossly underweight.
I made a Rocksim file of a 6.0" FG rocket and it was off by almost 10lbs before motor.
Adjust accordingly and you will get a better idea of the true performance.

JD

 

[Performance nut]

Which size rocket are we talking; 2,3, or 4" diameter?
Check the lift off weights. I find that 99% of the time, most files created are grossly underweight.
I made a Rocksim file of a 6.0" FG rocket and it was off by almost 10lbs before motor.
Adjust accordingly and you will get a better idea of the true performance.

JD

3" rocket. The RockSim file shows it weighing in a 13lbs 13.85 oz without motor. I was wondering if the numbers were because the weight is off which is why I thought I would ask. Also wondering if anyone actually launches these miles in the air.

 

[JDcluster]

Crazy Jim has flown his a couple times.
With the right motor combo; you can get at least 2 miles.
Everything will have to be about perfect to do it though.
I have flown a 3" Loc parts 2 stage to just shy of 5k on I motors.
I've done a 2 stage 4" on four I motors to just over 5,000ft.


JD

3" rocket. The RockSim file shows it weighing in a 13lbs 13.85 oz without motor. I was wondering if the numbers were because the weight is off which is why I thought I would ask. Also wondering if anyone actually launches these miles in the air.

 

[Performance nut]

Crazy Jim has flown his a couple times.
With the right motor combo; you can get at least 2 miles.
Everything will have to be about perfect to do it though.
I have flown a 3" Loc parts 2 stage to just shy of 5k on I motors.
I've done a 2 stage 4" on four I motors to just over 5,000ft.


JD

Who is Crazy Jim? Like to ask him about his rocket.

 

[Mad Bomber F/X]

I have flown my 3" Wildman 2 stage about a dozen times in the last year. You could expect 5,000' to 10,000' on K motor combo's. 10,000' to 15'000' on the right K to L combo and 20,000'+ on the right L to L combo. I'll get some flight data tonight and post some exact numbers tomorrow.

 

[Performance nut]

I have flown my 3" Wildman 2 stage about a dozen times in the last year. You could expect 5,000' to 10,000' on K motor combo's. 10,000' to 15'000' on the right K to L combo and 20,000'+ on the right L to L combo. I'll get some flight data tonight and post some exact numbers tomorrow.

Mad bomber, you are awesome!!!! Exactly what I'm looking for. Thank you.

 

[Performance nut]

Bump for more info

 

[jpummil]

So, regarding electronics for 2 Stage setups, are most modern altimeters designed with "attitude sensing" to ensure the rocket is "pointed up" before firing the sustainer motor?

I was looking at the KloudBusters Rules for Staging which I totally agree with, but it also brought about a tech question or two :wink:

 

[JimJarvis50]

So, regarding electronics for 2 Stage setups, are most modern altimeters designed with "attitude sensing" to ensure the rocket is "pointed up" before firing the sustainer motor?

I was looking at the KloudBusters Rules for Staging which I totally agree with, but it also brought about a tech question or two :wink:

There are a few altimeters that can do this. I don't have a list and I'm sure I would guess wrong anyway, but it is certainly not "most" altimeters.

The one that I am familiar with is the Raven. You can either ignite the sustainer based on a timer with an altitude check, or you can ignite the sustainer at a certain velocity based on an altitude and/or time check. The first is simpler, but requires reasonable confidence in your simulation. The second allows more control over the flight profile.

I'd be interested in hearing a similar description of the options with other altimeters.

Jim

 

[CarVac]

It looks like there is an indentation issue on the Rules for Staging; the line after (B) should be aligned farther left, since it applies to all K+ staged flights whether using altimeters that fulfill either (A) or (B).

 

[agrippo]

Hi Folks,

I'm currently building a 3" Wildman 2 stage and was wondering where the electronics are set up to light the sustainer. In a previous 2 stage I built I have a zipperless coupler in the fin section of the sustainer and did a head end ignition. It worked great but the Wildman isn't set up like that. The directions show using a brake liner tube running down the side of the motor mount to do a typical aft end ignition so that indicates to me the intention is to light the motor from the ebay containing the sustainer deployment charges. If I do that the ignition wire will probably prevent the drogue from deploying properly unless I make it 30' long which doesn't seem right.

If I light the sustainer from the interstage coupler then what is the point of the brake line running along the sustainer motor mount? I also don't like doing this as I want to utilize a separation charge at booster motor burn out to get that section off as quick as possible.

Re: the question about AirFest electronics, I utilized a Raven and set the altitude and velocity controls Jim described. It met the rules of the field and worked well.

Thanks for the help,

Andrew Grippo

 

[JimJarvis50]

Andrew, I don't know how the Wildman is configured (i.e., is it zipperless or not, and where are the tube breaks). With that said, I use a breakwire approach in all of my two-stagers. Typically, the igniter wire comes up through a tube (or up geckowire/taperwire) along the motor. The wires terminate at the top of the zipperless coupler. Then, the wires from the electronics bay come down through the drogue section. I have a few feet of slack so that the parts are not restricted from coming apart. Then, I just make a breakwire connection at the top of the zipperless coupler. I've never had this wire mess with the drogue deployment. The most important thing with this setup is to make sure that both wires are firmly attached (at the zipperless coupler and at the bay, respectively).

Jim

 

[agrippo]

Hi Jim,

I looked long and hard at your design several years ago and again at black rock last summer and it's an excellent solution.

The stock kit doesn't utilize a zipperless design but I will be adding it. On my 4" 2 stage I used the zipperless coupler as my ebay to light the sustainer with head end ignition. I mount the coupler with screws to hold it securely in place and it still performs recovery duties for the lower section. The biggest drawback to the design is the increased length and weight but that's zipperless...

I'm going to set the wildman up the same way, I was just curious how other folks were doing their kit.

Andrew

 

[Citizen Baslim]

Andrew,
It's been a couple of years, do you have any lessons learned on building your WM 2 Stage? Do you have any photos of your build?
I just bought the WM2S upgrade and am looking for the best way to build it.

 

[agrippo]

For the most part I built the rocket stock except for the interstage coupler. I didn't use the one with the kit, I used a coupler with the top half open to slip over the motor and the bottom half sealed to contain the booster electronics for the separation charge and recovery chute. I also did tip to top fiberglassing on both sets of fins. The rocket has flown about 5 times and every flight has been straight as an arrow. It's a great kit that I liked so much I built the 4" version as a 2 stage as well.

 

[Citizen Baslim]

This is very helpful and that's a good idea to utilize the coupler as you've described. If it's not too much trouble, would you be able to send pictures of your coupler. I'm looking at using the Altus Telemega as it has an onboard tilt detection that can cancel the sustainer ignition if necessary. It has enough programmable events that can still fire the booster ejection as a back up. I'm still diagramming all of this out.

 

[blackjack2564]

you would want sustainer ignition in the sustainer.

 

[agrippo]

Jim is correct, light the sustainer from the sustainer ebay. I've taken pictures of the booster and sustainer put together plus the ebay. I"ve also included the ebay at the top of the sustainer to show how that could be done.