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LW Bercini

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Person A believes X
Person B believes Y

Both feel their point of view is correct and can find info that corroborates their view.
Each person can point to these sources that backs their position.
Each person believes the other is wrong and biased for not accepting their source of info
Who is right? Unknown....
But we'll have lots of posts trying to justify X or Y and why B or A are wrong...…...
"It's pronounced, 'CAY-to' dude"
 

manixFan

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Here's a good comparison, case rate per million (divide by 10 for per 100,000). Unfortunately for the EU, they got lax and have caught up to the US, but our rate is also on the rise, so hard to know where it goes from here. Because this is a new confirmed case chart (although an average as noted), think of it as a thrust curve and sum the area under the curve as a mental exercise.

Tony

(population of EU: roughly 448,000,000; population of US: 3330,000,000)
IMG_0512.JPG
 
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PatD

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This will be my last comment on this thread. Edit: sorry, posted this before I saw post #63. Additionally you will note that I have not included politics e.g. D vs R in this post.

Mike claims that Trump's national response is working, but you claim he can't have one because each state can go its own way.
That is not what I said. Either you do not understand the operation of a constitutional republic, although I briefly explained it, or you are being deliberately obtuse to support your point. The 'national response' includes, in small part, the recommendations to the states from the CDC, NIH et.al. Because we don't live in a totalitarian country we abide by the constitution so the states decide whether to follow the federal recommendations or not. I quoted the bill of rights where it states that.

As is typical in these 'debates', you cherry-picked the wrong chart. Your chart is is the 'observed case-fatality ratio', (snip) The more commonly used measure of how well an entire population is managed is death rate per 100,000. When you look at that chart: the only western county that does worse than the US is Spain.
An extremely interesting comment. If you actually look at what I posted you will note that I posted BOTH charts from the John Hopkins page. The concept of "commonly used measure" being the only point in this discussion is at best naive. Additional information from a reliable source should not be suppressed. In fact from other sources scientists are using 'excess deaths' during this period in an attempt to better understand the actual death rate from covid. Although it is obvious from your own words, I will point it out. Your statement that the U.S. has the worst record of all western countries is false on its face, Spain is worse. If you look at the chart of interest to those that actually have the disease, the deaths per case, it is more encouraging.

It is time to move along here, it's clear your mind is made up that Trump and company are doing a good job, while I believe the physical evidence plainly proves otherwise. It's unlikely either of us is going to change our thinking.
I have never stated that I believe the federal government has done a good job of this. I am of the belief that with the culture in the U.S., consensus and cooperation isn't going to happen regardless of leadership. As scientists are still trying to fully understand the Spanish Flu from a hundred years ago, the only thing that is going to calm the situation is an effective vaccine.

Have a good day. Stay safe.
 

kuririn

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It has been mentioned that the Feds must defer to the state governments in policy making and mandates per the Constitution.
While it is generally true that the federal government usually defers to the states, there have been examples when this is not the case, especially during wartime and national emergencies.
And if ever there was a national emergency, this is it folks.
 
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MikeT

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kuririn

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So who are we to believe?
Read Pat D's explanation about the definition of novel above.
I would be concerned if the recommendations DIDN'T change with new information.
So if a thousand doctors tell you that you have a tumor and need surgery you're going to tell them no because doctors once recommended blood letting as a therapy?
Follow the science. A thousand officers seems kind of irrefutable to me (and most people).
BTW the two most recent retractions by the CDC have to do with politicization rather than science.
Blame the white house for the change in recommendations, not the science.
Did you read the full article? here's an excerpt:

"Douglas Hamilton, a member of the EIS Class of 1991, said he signed the letter because he was concerned about protecting the CDC’s scientific credibility. “We’ve seen massive spinning or even rewriting of CDC recommendations,” said Dr. Hamilton, who retired from the CDC earlier this year."
 
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MikeT

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Read Pat D's explanation about the definition of novel above.
I would be concerned if the recommendations DIDN'T change with new information.
So if a thousand doctors tell you that you have a tumor and need surgery you're going to tell them no because doctors once recommended blood letting as a therapy?
Follow the science. A thousand officers seems kind of irrefutable to me (and most people).
BTW the two most recent retractions by the CDC have to do with politicization rather than science.
Blame the white house for the change in recommendations, not the science.
Did you read the full article? here's an excerpt:

"Douglas Hamilton, a member of the EIS Class of 1991, said he signed the letter because he was concerned about protecting the CDC’s scientific credibility. “We’ve seen massive spinning or even rewriting of CDC recommendations,” said Dr. Hamilton, who retired from the CDC earlier this year."
"Trust has eroded in the agency, a recent poll showed." Well at least they got that part right. The rest reads like "we need to be the "center" of this mess. So just who's fault is it that they are not trusted? I blame them.
Mike
 

kuririn

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No problem.
I'm OK with people believing what they want to believe.
Peace.
 

manixFan

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Nevermind, gotta climb back on that wagon!


Tony
 
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