# Why Is Everything Wrong With Bathroom Construction.

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#### TopRamen

##### SA-5
I'm not going to argue about it, I'm already going my own route anyhow with my bathroom remodel, but what I fail to understand is whay all the available pieces parts are made of garbage like Porcelain and Concrete?

I had to insulate the tank of the toilet to make it not sweat, which was okay by me, as I got to make many tiny foam tiles and glue them in with lifetime guaranteed silicone, then squirt 3x expanding foam into the side channels I left where the contour was too great and varied to just use my tile solution. A good time was had, and my respirator likely wasted a lot of the usefulness of it's current set of cartridges, as I had to be right over the tank while mounting everything and even with fans going and having it next to an open door, it was just a ridiculous process in my opinion.
What I was left with is great and all, but it is still heavy and fragile on the outside. To make matters worse, I thought that leaving a slight build up of silicone on the holes in the bottom would be a "Good Idea".
The innards of the tank are meant to be mounted to the bare porcelain, so today saw a complete disassembly and clean-up of my mistake. That also ruined a washer, which meant a trip back to the hardware store for what is now a one piece assembly called a supply line. Thanks to my employee discount I still get from doing 6 years there, an 8" braided stainless steel model only ran me $1.96. Anyhow, I got everything put back together, then realized I can make the entire tank sweat free from the get go out of fiberglass and foamboard templates reinforced with window screen and expanding foam, and it will caost about$25-30 per tank at the most, and that's including the magnets to hold the lid secure.
Why the thing is made from China baffles me!!!
It got me thinking, so I started to design my own sink, since the old one won't work anymore now that I demolished the wooden piece of crap that held it's worthless 50 pound heft in place, so I started looking for DIY Sinks, and even DIY folks are still using CONCRETE!!!!

My bathroom sunk because of poor construction of the floor and subfloor, and extremely poor DIY by previous owners of this camp. It also sunk because there were 400lbs. of stuff just there that did not need to weigh that much in the first place.

It's a world gone absolutely mad!

I realized that the idea behind it must be to keep plumbers and general contractors in business. There is no other explanation of the construction methods employed.

I have had friends that do these jobs, and so I mean no harm to them, but my fiberglass tank and sink are going to be not only badass and since I will be using metal screen as reinforcement, they simply won't break in the first place.
The tank can wait, as I'm really proud of the porcelain model I have on display now, but I'm beginning my templates for the sink mold tomorrow. The concrete versions cost upwards of $1300!!!:surprised: They have limited re-bar reinforcement if any at all, depending on the builder, and might be cheap knock offs depending on where you purchase them. Mine will last until the epoxies begin to deteriorate, but if properly maintained, that can be quite long seeing as how I have learned to use additives and been researching adding things like milled fibers to epoxy. It will cost me nothing but time and the price of epoxies and cloths. Were I a business, I would rather handle this as a product, as it could ship via Amazon Prime, and it fits right in with today's "Single Serve" Consumerism and "Change for the sake of Change" mentality. A search for fiberglass toilet tanks only reveals thing to repair porcelain tanks that contain fiberglass. WHY? Last edited: #### dhbarr ##### Amateur Professional I know very little about either composites or plumbing, but at a guess the ceramic sticks around because it is abrasion resistant and easy to sanitize. #### TopRamen ##### SA-5 That is a valid point, but in today sanitary society, we are all immunized for the most part, and our cleaners and detergents are formulated to be safe for use on composites in some cases. Yes, if my entire bathroom was made of porcelain, I could just douse it with blaech every day, but I don't even get sick more than once every five to ten years, not even a cold. when it does happen it is brutal because I'm so not used to it, but it so rare that I don't feel threatened. My bathroom is not open to the public, nor is my house, so my risk of exposure to viruses and non-native bacteria is only affected by my teenage Son, so I clean the house in an appropriate fashion, and that's plenty good enough. I have to say, you explanation does make the most sense. I only use CLR and a scrub brush on my bathroom surfaces about once a year, and yeah, they may look pretty scummy to an outsider, but now that they are all new, I want to keep them looking that way, so maybe I should do them in concrete??? It's not like I'm going to get sick from germs, but I do hope to sell this place and get a real house, so maybe my fiberglass idea is not so hot?? Hmm... You've definitely given me something to think about. That said, the largest fixture in the room is the shower/bath, and that is made of fiberglass. Even though I took a weekend "Firstime Home-buyers Class" I guess I was pretty dumb to have bought this place in the first place, but I really needed it and the location at the time. I don't want to screw the future owner/owners the way I got screwed. The bathroom in it's current state of rebuild is nicer than the day I bought it, and I took out the closet, so it feels more spacious. Closets belong in large rooms, not other closets. I'm taking the closet out of my laundry room next. This old house is a real piece of crap, built by a real moron. #### dave carver ##### ....what hump? On youtube there are videos of people making their bathroom sinks from boulders. What they do is use a concrete blade in a saw and plunge cut across a centerline until it looks like a big *. They then snap the sections off and grind until there's a hollow place that acts as the bowl. These free form sinks are pretty cool https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sink+from+boulder This search takes you to the page where there are many examples of this making, hope it's something you like #### DavidMcCann ##### Well-Known Member can always just go back to this: Just bought a house. Two bathrooms to totally renovate. Shoot me. #### TopRamen ##### SA-5 On youtube there are videos of people making their bathroom sinks from boulders. What they do is use a concrete blade in a saw and plunge cut across a centerline until it looks like a big *. They then snap the sections off and grind until there's a hollow place that acts as the bowl. These free form sinks are pretty cool https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sink+from+boulder This search takes you to the page where there are many examples of this making, hope it's something you like I've been eyeballing a Foam Gun. I could create a new home with screen templates, then just fill with foam, but it would still require me to learn to use and then be able to afford to rent or buy the equipment. If I ever come across a free excavator, I'll likely just bore into the Earth and never be seen or heard from again, until the age of the Morloks or the Arachnid beings of Earth farthest surviving era. #### dave carver ##### ....what hump? I've been eyeballing a Foam Gun. I could create a new home with screen templates, then just fill with foam, but it would still require me to learn to use and then be able to afford to rent or buy the equipment. If I ever come across a free excavator, I'll likely just bore into the Earth and never be seen or heard from again, until the age of the Morloks or the Arachnid beings of Earth farthest surviving era. Lot's of old SAC base missile silos that can be moved into with tremendous amounts of space and tons of brass and aluminum to be salvaged to pay for it all....just a thought... #### mkadams001 ##### Well-Known Member install a travel trailer bathroom. I think you need to hire a contractor and be done with it. The remodel stress must be getting to you. #### TopRamen ##### SA-5 install a travel trailer bathroom. I think you need to hire a contractor and be done with it. The remodel stress must be getting to you. Getting to me? It is degrading me in every aspect of my being!!! I'm broke. There will be no contracting unless I win the lottery, which I can't afford to play. I have tried to contact some of the imaginary "We Help Disabled Veterans" things like "Wounded Warrior", but it turns out they only ask for donation to fund their blanket making operation, and they hire paid actors to be on their commercials. I hate asking for any kind of help anyway, as every time I have, someone has answered from their perspective and tried to make me feel little, and I never feel little, as I know what I used to be capable of when I was physically capable of doing my job. Were I suicidal or homicidal, I'de get all the help I need, but I'll never be those things, and thusly cancel myself out from being someones profitable poster boy. I'll create my own poster! Harboring spite toward others or self pity don't even exist in my world, I just get to the point where I am defeated, and carry on through it like I did back in the day, so i'm left with nothing but upward momentum, no matter how slow and painful that quest has become. Last edited: #### H_Rocket ##### Death by Powerpoint Sanitary fixtures are made from vitreous china as mentioned above as they provide a easy to clean surface that is nearly impervious to contamination. Sinks are made from darn near everything. I have an epoxy composite sink in my shop that was a leftover from my kitchen remodel. I did find that it was not chemically durable. Probably not an issue in your bathroom. By the way, are you aware that what is the mot common bathroom vanity tops are neither concrete nor porcelain. It is a fake marble that is a molded composite of resin and stone dust. You can get an entire top for about$75 at one of the big box hardware stores. Of course, if the craftsmanship part appeals to you...resin on.

If you go through this exercise in rejiggering your fixtures, think long term. You indicate you want to sell and buy something different at some point. Keep in mind that what you think is creative and forward thinking will potentially be considered ugly and reduce resale value. Also if you muck with anything that handles sewage, make sure you do not violate any building codes. That can stop a sale like a jersey barricade.

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#### stealth6

##### insert witty tagline here
.....why all the available pieces parts are made of garbage like Porcelain and Concrete?

WHY?
You could always blame Obama....or perhaps Hillary.

ssix

#### michigander

##### Well-Known Member
can always just go back to this:

Just bought a house. Two bathrooms to totally renovate. Shoot me.

That is nice the mint in bloom is air freshener too

#### ksaves2

##### Lifetime Supporter
TRF Lifetime Supporter
can always just go back to this:

Just bought a house. Two bathrooms to totally renovate. Shoot me.
In my state, nope you can't unless it was there when you bought the place and then you can maintain it. You might be able to get away with it if you claim "Amishness".

#### neil_w

##### Good at some things
TRF Supporter
If you go through this exercise in rejiggering your fixtures, think long term. You indicate you want to sell and buy something different at some point. Keep in mind that what you think is creative and forward thinking will potentially be considered ugly and reduce resale value. Also if you muck with anything that handles sewage, make sure you do not violate any building codes. That can stop a sale like a jersey barricade.
+1 on this. One man's proud DIY achievement is another's "Oh my God that's the first thing that's gotta go". Bathrooms are not an area I would be too interested in seeing highly, ah, "innovative" installations when house shopping.

On the other hand, if you're expecting to be there for a while and/or don't really care about this aspect too much, then go for it, just be aware of the possible consequences.

#### tmacklin

##### Well-Known Member
I wonder what Ted did when he felt a pantload in progress?

#### crossfire

##### Lifetime Supporter
TRF Lifetime Supporter
A strange thing from the 1960s my Parents house had toilets that were filled with part warm water. The toilets never sweat the 50 years she lived there.

#### dixontj93060

##### Well-Known Member
A strange thing from the 1960s my Parents house had toilets that were filled with part warm water. The toilets never sweat the 50 years she lived there.
I have lived in 20+ places and have never seen a toilet sweat.

#### H_Rocket

##### Death by Powerpoint
Not even after you took some cantankerous clients to the all you can eat Thai-Mexican fusion joint?

#### bobkrech

##### Well-Known Member
If you have well water from a deep well, the water temperature can be cold, below 50F much of the year. If you have humid weather and do not have air conditioning to remove the humidity for the interior of your house, the cold water in the toilet tank will dehumidify the air in the bathroom by condensing the moisture our of the air. When I was young in the dark ages, we had a fabric toilet tank cover that prevented condensation on the toilet tank in the summer time.

They are still available today.......

#### TopRamen

##### SA-5
There is really little to no zoning or code regulation in my town, so I can be like the farmer down the road that just burns all his trash right in his front yard if I wanted to, but I'm slightly more civilized.
It turns out my "House" is actually a "Camp" anyhow, so I should not have been able to buy it using my VA Guarantee Home Loan Certificate anyhow, but I just found that out when I tried to get a USDA Rural Development Re-fi to cover repairs and improvements, and I'll have to save up for a lawyer to sue the crap out of the realtor and home inspector that said this is a "house" and thereby eligible for me to purchase wusing my VA crap. I've been getting taxed as a "House" so perhaps I'm due a refund there too.
In the meanwhile, I have to live here, so I just want to do so comfortably. My Homeowners insurance will not renew me past November, due to the things that are wrong. I thought to call them first about the problems when I first realized how messed up the "Camp" was becoming. They sent out a couple of guys and then another more professional guy, then they just sent me a letter saying we won't insure you after this term. My Mortgage holder, U.S. Bank will pick up there, but it will raise my monthly payment. Thusly, I have to fix all this crap myself and check my self pity at the door, lest the dwelling simply collapse into dust. As painful as it is, once I resigned myself to it, and finished the toilet, I found I feel a real sense of accomplishment and pride in getting it done. I'm maintaining a positive attitude, and I WILL prevail if I keep working every day from dusk til' dawn.
You don't need building permits in my town, and only pay tax on square footage dwellings without wheels, so some folks upgrade their existing homes by mounting trailers to the sides, or building silly unsafe and wretched things just because they can. One town over, you can't even pour a concrete floor in your existing garage without the inspector and a permit.

On the toilet tank, I like the job I did on the insulation. It certainly works as intended.

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#### TopRamen

##### SA-5
Today, I started stripping the old paint and calking from above the shower/bath, and it is just crumbly old drywall beneath the paint. this is obviously as unacceptable as the particle board floor and sub-floor I just burned, so tomorrow that comes out, and I'll replace it with 1/2" plywood that I will paint or fiberglass first, then install, then fiberglass again to seal it to the wall of the shower thing.
Thankfully, I got the plywood for free, as I always have a keen eye for free scraps and stuffs when traveling about. The trim and molding I'm doing in the bathroom is all from the free Dollhouse Factory score. I have a shed full of that stuff. 4 Yukon XL hauls worth, and definitely over 1 ton of wood.
I just added a Foam Dispensing Gun to my wishlist after not only researching them, but today I took my Mom to the Library where they were doing construction, and I got to see one in action!!! I spotted a worker fitting a can to a model of common aspect, so I hopped right out of my vehicle and walked right over to watch him use it for a minute or so, taking care not to alert him to my presence my my speed or gait. I was simply going from here to there, but stopped to stare when I "Happened to notice" the foam gun. I stayed quiet, as I know how annoying it can be to be disturbed while working, and after observing a few beads of what was a sealing foam, I continued into the library, to tell my Mom how I had just got to see one of those foam guns in use for real. Jeez, the kinds of things that really make my day!
A decent one with good reviews can be had for under \$50, and I'm getting tired of the disposable cans that cannot really be re-used or used with precision. For the toilet tank, I had to make an extension for the dinky little tube supplied with the can, and while it worked as I wanted, it was not ideal.
The lack of moisture in the tiny Basement has caused the ceiling in the loft above the bathroom to collapse,(It too was made of "Dry-Wall") so I have just closed the entrance with hardware cloth and a bed sheet to prevent fiberglass insulation and dust from coming down into the living area. If I sealed it completely with plastic sheeting, it would mold from no ventilation. That what the insurance guy said when I asked him if I could just seal it up since I don't go up there for anything.
What a mess!

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#### Steven

##### Lifetime Supporter
TRF Lifetime Supporter
I have lived in 20+ places and have never seen a toilet sweat.
They do that when they get the runs.

#### cavecentral

##### Well-Known Member
Home cleanouts are a mess. I think I mentioned replacing the rotten floor in the addition at my folks. I think the carpet was the only think keeping people from stepping through the floor there.

I was going to remove some molding on my bedrooms only to find it covered the drywall job that looked like it was cut by a blind child with a hatchet. So I decided the molding can stay.

#### cavecentral

##### Well-Known Member
I have lived in 20+ places and have never seen a toilet sweat.
I seen some people that I bet can make a toilet sweat . . .

#### TopRamen

##### SA-5
Oh, and yeah, I have well water, like just about everyone around here, so tank insulation is the norm, but the stuff that was in my tank was a really poor DIY job where someone used that white Styrofoam, so it had deteriorated.
Youtube has some good ideas, but some folks has trouble with matching the contours of the tank, or they get a poor seal. I thought about expanding foam, and one of the videos had it, but they just squirted it directly onto the porcelain with nothing to hold it. I thought about how the tiles on the Space Shuttle are made to match a contoured surface, and I could get away with larger sections in some areas, so I just did it up.
I'll bet if I refined the method, it would be worth doing a Youtube video for, but I don't even have time for that garbage.
Anyhow, I had plenty of foamboard, foam and silicone on hand, so it worked out perfect. There is some fiberglass wall repair tape in there too but it only spans the inner circumference of the tank at two levels to help the foam flow evenly and set up rigidly to the tank wall.

#### TopRamen

##### SA-5
This guy rocks the fiberglass, but forgot his respirator and nitrile gloves, so he won't rock it for much longer.
I do appreciate his tips and techniques, and have been using FG from Thayercraft that is made for building boats, so if I can spare the rest of my nice heavy cloth for things like tool making I'll use the matting tape this guy uses. I've never used matting because it is not for structural composition, but my one foot by 9 feet of area that brings the shower to the ceiling of the bathroom is not ever going to break mach or be put through any torsional stress until someone can afford to do this house right and demolish it, so I may just seal the area off after removing the rotted drywall with dropcloth, then wait til' i get my disability and buy these products at the place I used to work at where I still get a discount.
It will mean continued low-temp showers with care taken to only clean minimally, but I lived in Iraq for a little over a year, and for the first six months or so we did not even have anything resembling a real shower. Short showers with cooler water to prevent moisture getting in the house for a little while is fine by me.
The products this guy is using look lioke what I'm trying to achieve with the stuff I have on hand, but I'de really like to save the nice stuff I have on hand and just use the batting or matting if it is only going to be a waterproof layer. I don't even want to talk about how much of my resources I normally use for rocketry that I have used in larger quantities foolishly to glass things. I know that it was foolish, so I don't need to be told by anyone else. Had I discovered this video first, I'de have saved some money, but the best way to learn things for good is to make mistakes, so I am proud of my error, and others may learn from it.
Use bathroom fiberglass and bathroom adhesive on bathroom, save rocket fg and epoxy for rockets. I was about to waste a whole lot more til' I saw this video.

[video=youtube;FOI3gFzRb_A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOI3gFzRb_A[/video]

#### shreadvector

##### Well-Known Member
[video=youtube;Twn3aqq9H-8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twn3aqq9H-8[/video]

#### TopRamen

##### SA-5
[video=youtube;Twn3aqq9H-8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Twn3aqq9H-8[/video]
That looks really sweet!

It's too bad the home owner stood around inhaling all those fumes just to get a you tube video. He could have worn a respirator during the filming then just added narration afterwards. At one point he remarks, "That smells nice."

#### TopRamen

##### SA-5
I'm about to go get back at it.
Yesterday, upon taking the drywall down above the shower, I revealed some scuzzy insulation that I will replace, that had debris from a wasp nest and a mouse in it, as well as just how improperly the wall heater was installed for all these years, and so I decided that ALL the drywall has to go. The stuff is garbage, and I can make serviceable plywood paneling from my stockpile in the shed, as well as I found another free sheet of 1/2" plywood yesterday. I have a keen eye for free stuff on the side of the road or near dumpsters behind businesses that would make my Grandpa proud.
Whoever created this pathetic excuse of a dwelling had the drywall resting on the inner ledge of the shower with no shower and tub surround adhesive or plastic to separate the two, just a line of caulking on the inside where the spray from the shower hits it directly.

The heater did not work, but was hooked up to live wires, so I had to watch a few videos, then read some stuff in my Ortho Basic Electrical Work book. Took me all of three minutes to remove, but since electricity was involved, I had to do it safely, and I'm a newb to this kind of work.

I'm thinking that this fan/style of fan may work in my lathe to suck away debris while lathing foam if ducted properly, so this hot mess will go out in the shed for future disassembly/research and possible re-purposing. The other parts may be serviceable for other uses too, but no time for that now.

My Aspirin is finally kicking in, so I'de better get to work.