Why I don't use Jolly Logic Chute Release anymore

[billdz]

Something I found to work with the JLCR is to swap the standard rubber band with a silicone band like the kind you can use for cooking. It doesn’t melt or bind on parachute material and gives a smoother release.

Had not heard of this but sounds like a good idea, has anyone else tried silicone bands?

Another idea I had was to wrap a strip of paper between the chute and the band to prevent sticking, have not tried this yet.

I did recently not get a full release because the edge of the round ring that connects the band to the pin got stuck in the chute. Need to ensure that the edge is covered by the band or a small piece of tape.

 

[H-MINUS]

I always secured the chute protector to the shock cord near the mouth of the body tube. Burrito wrap the chute and JLCR and S- fold the remaining line and secure the shock cord with blue painters tape on my larger rockets. On deployment the chute is immediately pulled clear of the chute protector giving about 10’ of clearance from my chute and nomex. Never had an issue with mid-power or high-power flights.

They’re are a lot of people with more experience than me here, but I want nothing in the airstream near the JLRC secured chute when it releases.

 

[John Beans]

I think everyone assumes everyone has read all the posts on Chute Release, but that's impossible, right?

There have been discussions about blankets staying wrapped, loose bundles where bands get caught, etc.

Stuff can still happen. Chute Release requires its own set of techniques and experience. Places like this where people share experiences are priceless.

Chute Release (or any product, for that matter) can't be perfect for every rocket / every rocketeer.

I remember the first time I got up to talk about Chute Release at NARCON in Santa Clara (a couple of years before it came out), and I noted that "It's hard to beat black powder for cost, and light weight, and price."

That having been said, it's pretty cool you can just walk up and add Chute Release to just about any rocket, no?

 

[rcktnut]

I think everyone assumes everyone has read all the posts on Chute Release, but that's impossible, right?

There have been discussions about blankets staying wrapped, loose bundles where bands get caught, etc.

Stuff can still happen. Chute Release requires its own set of techniques and experience. Places like this where people share experiences are priceless.

Chute Release (or any product, for that matter) can't be perfect for every rocket / every rocketeer.

I remember the first time I got up to talk about Chute Release at NARCON in Santa Clara (a couple of years before it came out), and I noted that "It's hard to beat black powder for cost, and light weight, and price."

That having been said, it's pretty cool you can just walk up and add Chute Release to just about any rocket, no?

I love my JLCR, can put some bigger motors in the rockets of mine that are not DD. I've never had a problem yet. A person has to take a little time and experiment with the unit, packing chute right, etc. After that a little thought on where to place everything on the recovery harness is all that is needed.

 

[manixFan]

To me the chute release is neither more or less reliable than other techniques. As John says, it requires its own set of techniques and won't be a good fit for everyone. But I do like how I can add dual deploy to nearly any rocket and end up flying more due to shorter recovery times. My biggest gripe is the cost, I would love to have 2 or 3 so I could prep several rockets for flight and then recover them all at once. While I could spend the money and buy a second or third CR, it's hard to justify for mid-power rockets when a good dual deploy altimeter is $50 and can be prepped well in advance.

Still, now that I am used to flying with one, if it ever breaks or is lost I'll very likely get a replacement. To me it's a trade off between flying or walking, and I'll take flying every time, even if it does cost me some money.


Tony

 

[RainierWolfcastle]

I’ve found it’s the same as any deployment, ground tests are essential. I like to put long motors in little rockets, current best effort is a LOC 5.5” V2 that can take a 54mm 6xl case. Flown to 10k with the main wrapped up with a JLCR and went perfectly. I also use it with an Eggfinder mini in a Pterodactyl Jnr on CTI Is and Js with motor deploy for quick easy flights. It takes a little time to work out everything so that the tether isn’t under tension, the chute has a clear path up on release and the band has the right amount of tension to release and not get bound up. But given a ground test only takes a few button presses and can be done on a table it’s easy to practice till it is right.

It’s not the cheapest solution and obviously has its limits, but to me it’s incredibly easy to use and a great way to add dual deploy to rockets with out either electronics or the room to do so.

 

[Bruiser]

Just got to ask. What "good dual deploy altimeter" is 50 bucks?

-Bob

 

[tim cubbedge]

Just got to ask. What "good dual deploy altimeter" is 50 bucks?

-Bob

Missile Works RRC2 is $44
Perfect Flite SLC is $49

 

[heada]

Just got to ask. What "good dual deploy altimeter" is 50 bucks?

-Bob

I'll add Eggtimer Quantum ($40) and Quark ($20)

 

[WoShuGui]

As chute release methods go, the JL is about as good as anything I have used. My experience is limited to wrapping the release around the outside of the blanket. The fundamental problem of getting the burrito to unwrap may be somewhat mitigated because the JL can be positioned further out on the shock cord in the airstream. This is in contrast to the cable cutter method which is limited by the length of the wires extending from the AV bay. The anxious seconds for burrito unwrapping illustrated in this video...

led me to develop a way to have a drogue pull the main out of the burrito as shown in the video below.

The drogue pull method, or a steamer if you like, is a little more complicated, but could add a margin of safety to the JL release. It also might make it a little easier to see the rocket descending before release; something I have struggled with on my JLCR flights.

 

[jadebox]

As with anything in life, it comes down to comfort level, I think. At least for me. I prefer using BP and e-matches; I just feel more confident that way. And I think Nathan said there was nothing wrong with the product. It just didn't click with him.

The Jolly Logic Chute release was designed provide access to dual deployment for people who can't or don't desire to use BP and e-matches. We are pushing it beyond its designed purpose when we use it for larger rockets.

That it works well for many using it in large rockets shows that it is well engineered. I have used it a couple of times in a 5.5" diameter upscale Mosquito and it worked both times. (One time, however, the wind dragged the rocket across the field sort of defeating the point of dual deployment. Fortunately, I found someone younger to fetch the rocket for me.)

 

[Buckeye]

To me the chute release is neither more or less reliable than other techniques. As John says, it requires its own set of techniques and won't be a good fit for everyone. But I do like how I can add dual deploy to nearly any rocket and end up flying more due to shorter recovery times. My biggest gripe is the cost, I would love to have 2 or 3 so I could prep several rockets for flight and then recover them all at once. While I could spend the money and buy a second or third CR, it's hard to justify for mid-power rockets when a good dual deploy altimeter is $50 and can be prepped well in advance.

I will disagree slightly. I think the concept of a bundle, burrito, tether, hot-wire cutter, or chute release is inherently less reliable than blowing a chute out of a tube. By less reliable, I mean a greater chance of non-inflation or tangling. I am not referring to any electronic errors. My data leads me to this conclusion.

Though I prefer a dual deploy altimeter as well, it is time consuming to prep the ebay, batteries, and charges. Sometimes it is damn nice to simply wrap a JLCR around a chute and fly it.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

You have to use what you are comfortable with.

For myself, I was much more comfortable using an out-of-the-box, ready-to-go JLCR with consumer-friendly controls for setting the altitude, than a flight computer that comes as a loaded (or unloaded) circuit board that you need to set up on a sled, may involve soldering, uses little dip switches and audible beeps for an interface, and requires e-matches and black powder charges. I don't have a lot of experience with those kinds of things, so I was more comfortable with the JLCR. I like it a lot, and I haven’t had any mishaps.

That said, I’m starting to get into more traditional DD as we speak. In fact, my assembled Eggtimer Quantums should arrive today! The main reason I’m starting to explore it is for things the flight computer can handle that the JLCR cannot, like airstarts and deploying payloads.

 

[mikec]

The anxious seconds for burrito unwrapping illustrated in this video...

Great video, very illuminating.

When I've used the Archetype cable cutter I usually compress the burrito as much as possible with the tie wrap so the bundled chute springs out a little more energetically, but that's hard to control. One should allow extra time for inflation for sure.

 

[mikec]

I think the concept of a bundle, burrito, tether, hot-wire cutter, or chute release is inherently less reliable than blowing a chute out of a tube.

I agree 100%, but at least with the JLCR you don't have to worry about the leads to the ematch tangling the chute or coming loose during descent, which is the source of most of my failures with the Archetype cable cutter.

 

[Bat-mite]

Of people who really like and do well with JLCR, it would be interesting to see stats on who was already proficient with traditional DD.

Seems like we might have two camps:

1. "Never done DD, never will; but JLCR saved the day!"
2. "Been doing DD a long time and didn't see how JLCR improved my success ratio."

 

[jadebox]

Of people who really like and do well with JLCR, it would be interesting to see stats on who was already proficient with traditional DD.

Seems like we might have two camps:

1. "Never done DD, never will; but JLCR saved the day!"
2. "Been doing DD a long time and didn't see how JLCR improved my success ratio."

I have been using traditional DD for a while. I chose the JLCR for a couple of flights because the rocket was not designed for DD. Using the Chute Release allowed me to fly the rocket using a larger motor than I normally would have based on the size of the field and the winds.

 

[markg]

Of people who really like and do well with JLCR, it would be interesting to see stats on who was already proficient with traditional DD.

I fall into the DD & JLCR camp. I love the JLCR for single deploy MPR rockets. It makes flying Estes PS2 sized rockets much more enjoyable.

I run traditional DD with BP on HPR rockets. I've also taken to using the JLCR in a redundant configuration on some HPR flights. On my 2 stage Nike->Apache I used dual JLCRs on the 5.5" booster. I've flown it twice and both flights were successful.

Not all of my JLCR flights have been problem free. I've had a few where the JLCR did not release for whatever reason. That's why I would only run it redundant on large birds. On the smaller MPR flights, even if the JLCR doesn't release the rockets have recovered okay, just a little too fast From what I can recall, I've never had a chute fail to open if the JLCR releases.

cheers - mark

 

[Buckeye]

How does redundant JLCR work? Do you want redundancy for the chute to open or to stay closed?

 

[John Kemker]

You have to use what you are comfortable with.

For myself, I was much more comfortable using an out-of-the-box, ready-to-go JLCR with consumer-friendly controls for setting the altitude, than a flight computer that comes as a loaded (or unloaded) circuit board that you need to set up on a sled, may involve soldering, uses little dip switches and audible beeps for an interface, and requires e-matches and black powder charges. I don't have a lot of experience with those kinds of things, so I was more comfortable with the JLCR. I like it a lot, and I haven’t had any mishaps.

That said, I’m starting to get into more traditional DD as we speak. In fact, my assembled Eggtimer Quantums should arrive today! The main reason I’m starting to explore it is for things the flight computer can handle that the JLCR cannot, like airstarts and deploying payloads.

Thirsty, one of the reasons I chose the Eggtimer series was because I got to play with a soldering iron!

I've been a ham radio operator for almost 25 years. Before that, I used to build Heathkits and Radio Shack P-Box kits as a kid. There's something about being able to say, "I built that and it works!"

Building an Avionics Bay is an opportunity to put more than just an altimeter in it. If there's room, I can also put some sort of tracking device (not just a GPS, but a 2m or 70cm beacon pounding out my callsign), maybe ATV transmitter, so I can watch the video live on the ground, redundant ejection systems, etc.

That last part is where I have questions about the JLCR package: How do you provide secondary or tertiary backup systems for deployment with it? I was L3 certified a long time ago. (Lapse in TRA membership requires I re-cert.) I'll not fly anything above a K without redundancy in deployment systems. Heck, my L3 flight had two altimeters and a 70cm data transceiver that was rigged to pop a BP charge if I keyed up on its frequency and sent a 3-digit DTMF code. I'm not saying the JLCR can't be setup as a secondary, but I'd like to know how to do it.

73 de W5NNH

 

[Bat-mite]

How does redundant JLCR work? Do you want redundancy for the chute to open or to stay closed?

To open. Use two in series, so that if one fails to open, the other still does.

 

[SDramstad]

One mistake I see people make is having the nomex blanket attached to the same spot on the shock cord as the parachute is. If the rocket deploys the bundle correctly it has a chance to stabilize on the way down. It the blanket is attached where the chute is there may not be enough turbulence to pull the blanket away from the chute bundle. With the nomex shielding the chute bundle from the wind when the chute release opens nothing happens. If the nomex is attached even as little as a foot away from the chute the bundle and nomex separate during the free fall and when the JLCR lets go nothing stops the chute from opening.

 

[manixFan]

I always place the Nomex blanket far away from the chute, typically just above the body tube, regardless of JLCR or regular ejection. I place the chute 1/3 of the way from the nose cone. So when the 'burrito' is ejected, the nosecone helps pull the chute out of the Nomex or as the whole thing unravels the two will be separated from each other just due to the distance on the shock cord. I've never had a chute fail to inflate when doing this.

I would never wrap the Nomex with a cord cutter or a JLCR. The chute needs to be in the free airstream when released, otherwise you get exactly what happened in that video. In the case of the cord cutter, I would rig things opposite, the chute stays close to the body tube and the nomex goes near the nose cone.


Tony

 

[Wallace]

If Ya'll think they were easy enough to lose already just wait for the even smaller and still black version...I hate losing things, even more so when they cost this much.

 

[JoeTekcor]

Being relatively new to HPR the JLCR has allowed me to focus on the basics until I’m ready to jump into DD. I have had 2 failures with my jolly logic chute releases. Completely my fault and I’ve learned from each error.
Next I’ll venture into DD probably starting with just altimeter deployment and my chute release.

 

[Tyler P]

What is a "Benjamin?"

LOL! I'm Canadian and even I got that reference! If someone said the same thing about who is on our $100, couldn't tell you. The only one I know off the top of my head is our $5 bill. It's Sir Wilfred Laurier. Look up Spock $5, LOL!

 

[Tyler P]

I have yet to fly mine. I haven't even launched this season, which I'm pretty crusty about. I've tested it on the ground a bunch of times, trying different folding techniques and it has always released as advertised. I can't speak to whether it tangles or not, though, having not flight tested it.

 

[RainierWolfcastle]

If Ya'll think they were easy enough to lose already just wait for the even smaller and still black version...I hate losing things, even more so when they cost this much.

Dino chute make protectors in nice bright colours, added insulation from hot ejection gas and easier to see it too.

 

[dhbarr]

Dino chute make protectors in nice bright colours, added insulation from hot ejection gas and easier to see it too.

As an added benefit, they force you to be careful about how you assemble the bundle.

 

[WoShuGui]

Tony[/QUOTE]

I always place the Nomex blanket far away from the chute, typically just above the body tube, regardless of JLCR or regular ejection. I place the chute 1/3 of the way from the nose cone. So when the 'burrito' is ejected, the nosecone helps pull the chute out of the Nomex or as the whole thing unravels the two will be separated from each other just due to the distance on the shock cord. I've never had a chute fail to inflate when doing this.

I would never wrap the Nomex with a cord cutter or a JLCR. The chute needs to be in the free airstream when released, otherwise you get exactly what happened in that video. In the case of the cord cutter, I would rig things opposite, the chute stays close to the body tube and the nomex goes near the nose cone.

That makes a lot of sense. Can you share your technique for how you wrap with the JLCR and cable cutter? I am trying to picture how this would work and it seems there would have to be a specific way to pack the shroud lines or perhaps the parachute would be wrapped against the shock cord. In the case of a cable cutter, is there something you do to prevent powder burns on the parachute?