Why I don't use Jolly Logic Chute Release anymore

Discussion in 'Recovery' started by Nathan, Sep 30, 2019.

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  1. Sep 30, 2019 #1

    Nathan

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    Since the JLCR came out several years ago I have bought four of them and have two left. But I don't plan to use them anymore because I have had two crashes caused by JLCR related deployment failures. In both cases it was on my single-deploy 15 lb Upscale Onyx using a 48 inch FruityChute burrito wrapped in a chute protector, and the JLCR set to release at 500 ft.

    In one case the JCLR and rubber band were wrapped around the outside of the chute protector. It appeared that the JLCR didn't release and the rocket landed hard, cracking a fin joint. When we recovered the rocket we found that the JLCR had released but the chute was still in the chute protector, not entangled at all. It was not clear whether the JLCR opened late or if the chute just didn't open for some undetermined reason.

    After that failure I tried instead wrapping the rubber band around the chute inside of the chute protector. The idea was that it would allow the chute protector more time to unwrap from the chute during freefall before the JLCR releases. But in that case the chute became untangled when the JLCR released. When we recovered the rocket the chute was entangled in both the tether and recovery harness. Was not able to determine what happened first because there was spinning during the tangled descent so everything got all twisted together.

    I was not able to determine the exact cause of either of these failures. But my failure rate with the JLCR has been higher than with traditional dual deploy. In my experience, traditional dual-deploy is much more reliable than the JLCR, especially with redundant dual-deploy. I have since repaired my Upscale Onyx but I have now bought a new nose cone and converted it to head-end dual deploy. I might still use a JLCR to release a drogue at 1000 ft but I will no longer be using the JLCR to deploy a main chute.

    For the two JLCRs that I lost, one was a flight in which the tether broke. That was determined to be because it was packed in such a way that at deployment there was tension on the tether before there was tension on the recovery harness, causing the thin tether to break. The other JLCR was lost along with the rocket when it landed in a pond.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
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  2. Sep 30, 2019 #2

    Bat-mite

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    I feel your pain. I bought one for specific rockets that were single deploy, and I crashed often, too. Probably my fault, but I wasn't in love with the idea. So mine has sat in a box for a couple of years. I may offer it up to my kids, if they want to fly high at the sod farm on breezy days, but I just don't have enough confidence in my ability to use the thing as directed, or how to avoid entanglement.

    Not bashing the product at all. I just can't seem to get it right.
     
  3. Sep 30, 2019 #3

    roytyson

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    From my experience, this is caused by the installer pulling/stretching the rubber band as they wrap it around the chute. As the tension of the band is released, the rubber will bite like little teeth as it takes up the slack. Then when the release ejects the pin, the rubber band will tension itself against the chute preventing it from deploying. A simple solution is to only stretch the band only as much needed to latch it. Also rubbing the band with baby powder before each flight goes a long way.

    I don't think John ever recommends wrapping the band around the protector. Always around the chute, buritto roll it all up. I have hundreds of flights and the only issue was the first paragraph as I just mentioned. Once I have followed my own advice, I have not had any issues.

    Not sure why you might have pain with hooking the tether up wrong or losing it in a pond. I hope those two flights are not part of your decision.

    And as always, every single time, do a test deploy to make sure it is all going to separate as you like before stuffing it in the tube.
     
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  4. Oct 1, 2019 #4

    Nathan

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    Sounds similar to my experience. I don't doubt that my JCLR problems are due to something I'm not doing right, but I have had about 50 dual deploy flights since my last hard landing (remember "Uncrashable"?) so that's what I'm going to stick with.

    My Upscale Onyx was designed specifically to fly with a JLCR. It goes over 5000 ft on the biggest motor that will fit (4 grain 54mm) so apogee deployment is not an option. This will be my first attempt at head-end dual deploy so I'm looking forward to flying it this season.


    My decision not to use a JLCR is based only on the two crashes caused by deployment failures.
     
  5. Oct 1, 2019 #5

    dhbarr

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    On a related note, Anybody wants to trade a JLCR for a Benjamin, PM me :)
     
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  6. Oct 1, 2019 #6

    Bat-mite

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    What is a "Benjamin?"
     
  7. Oct 1, 2019 #7

    timbucktoo

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    Seriously? He was a founding father.
     
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  8. Oct 1, 2019 #8

    kuririn

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    I had to scratch my head for a while too. Bat-mite he's talking about a C note.
     
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  9. Oct 1, 2019 #9

    samb

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    Yeah but before that he was "Bad Boy" Ben from the hood. That's why his picture is on the C note.
     
  10. Oct 1, 2019 #10

    Bat-mite

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    Well, now I feel dumb. :oops:
     
  11. Oct 1, 2019 #11

    heada

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    I'll take a Cleveland.
     
  12. Oct 1, 2019 #12

    kuririn

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    Go big or go home. I'll take a Wilson
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Oct 1, 2019 #13

    heada

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    That's a gold certificate. Not sure its considered legal tender any more. I have an actual silver certificate at home. It's only $1 but still very cool.
     
  14. Oct 1, 2019 #14

    Bat-mite

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    That would be a Grover.
     
  15. Oct 1, 2019 #15

    Bat-mite

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    That would be a Woodrow.
     
  16. Oct 1, 2019 #16

    heada

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    SMRmdbPX_400x400.jpg
     

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  17. Oct 1, 2019 #17

    Nathan

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    I declare thread hijack.
     
  18. Oct 1, 2019 #18

    heada

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    I have one of the original chute releases, the one based on melting fishing line from about 10 years ago. It's still sitting in a box unused. Every time I thought I had a use for it, I either had enough room to do a normal dual deployment or the rocket was small enough that single deployment wasn't an issue. I like the idea of them but not sure they're right for me.
     
  19. Oct 1, 2019 #19

    AfterBurners

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    <---------C-Notes
     
  20. Oct 1, 2019 #20

    AfterBurners

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    How does it work with a streamer. Maybe using a streamer or smaller chute might resolve it. I thought you could use it with plastic chutes? Maybe that's why it wasn't working and releasing it properly because it got tangled. My chutes sometimes get tangle so I end up having to cut the shroud lines and throwing them away. I've gone through so many chutes I just decided to switch back to plastic and sometimes make my own out of old tshirts.
     
  21. Oct 1, 2019 #21

    crossfire

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    I think the JLCR is a great product. How many times have I seen standard DD fail? At most launches one will fail also. Nothing is 100% perfect.
     
  22. Oct 1, 2019 #22

    crossfire

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    Nathan why the sudden hate of the JLCR? I will give you $40 for the 2 you have left.
     
  23. Oct 1, 2019 #23

    timbucktoo

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    I think dhbarr has a much better offer! And Nathan's post #1 pretty much stated his "why"
     
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  24. Oct 1, 2019 #24

    Bat-mite

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    As with anything in life, it comes down to comfort level, I think. At least for me. I prefer using BP and e-matches; I just feel more confident that way. And I think Nathan said there was nothing wrong with the product. It just didn't click with him.
     
  25. Oct 2, 2019 #25

    Nathan

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    Exactly. In my opinion, by the time you get to HPR level 3 there is no room for error and no excuse for crashing rockets due to chute deployment problems. Deployment has to work right 100% of the time. I am very confident with traditional dual deploy. I like the JLCR but I dont have 100% confidence in my ability to make it work right every time.
     
  26. Oct 2, 2019 #26

    mikebpd221

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    Something I found to work with the JLCR is to swap the standard rubber band with a silicone band like the kind you can use for cooking. It doesn’t melt or bind on parachute material and gives a smoother release. I haven’t had any issues in testing or flight using that modification.
     
  27. Oct 2, 2019 #27

    llickteig1

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    You have stated this well. Stick you what you know.

    There are products i would never, ever use in rocketry because i don't have confidence in them or my ability to use them.
     
  28. Oct 2, 2019 #28

    BryRocket

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    Not sure if the rocket in question uses swivels but I’ve had much better luck with the JLCR around the chute and then that wrapped in the nomex with swivels at the attachment to the booster section and another one at the chute. I also prefer a higher altitude like 700’ on normal flights or 1000’ on bigger ones for the release to open. But I understand where you’re coming from. Two altimeters and dual deploy is pretty reliable. I mainly use the JLCR on a smaller rocket that is motor deploy and on the booster of a two-stage rocket where chute deploy happens at apogee via altimeter.
     
  29. Oct 2, 2019 #29

    billdz

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    Redundant dual deploy is the ultimate in safety, I always use it with my most valuable rockets. Redundant JLCR also works, just put two in series with each other.
     
  30. Oct 2, 2019 #30

    Bat-mite

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    That is a very expensive solution!
     

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