Who is Kosdon?

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ghost

ghost

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I saw it on the NAR motor list, but never heard of 'em...
 
PLEASE

Let's keep the "political" commentary to a low roar here. Based on the information that I've heard/read, this could get willy-nilly in a hurry - because I have some opinions, and from what I've witnessed, anything about motors and/or propellants and/or manufacurers of motors brings out lots of opinions.

But to boil it WAAAY down with no extra-curricular words, Frank Kosdon basically developed the formulation for the propellants that we all know and love and drool over as Animal Motor Works (formerly Kosdon West? or Kosdon East? whatever....)

Someone correct me. I just know that Kosdon's name alone can evoke some controversial posts, and let's just steer clear of that.


By the way: If I've got it wrong above, please, don't shoot me. Just correct me. Thanks.
 
ghost said:
I saw it on the NAR motor list, but never heard of 'em...
Click to expand...

Its my understanding that motors by Kosdon are now under AT/RCS as a "brand name".

Your best bet for information pro and con on Kosdon is to search RMR with groups.google.com

terry dean
nar 16158
 
The tone of the thread became counter productive so I cleaned it up. 'Nuff said, please keep it nice and directly on-topic.
 
This thread will become one of legends as long as the Mods don't close it down in the next few days...

LDRS is going to be great!
Tom
 
Fore Check said:
By the way: If I've got it wrong above, please, don't shoot me. Just correct me. Thanks.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to say, with all due respect, you're wrong.

The Kosdon brand name and the Kosdon propellant formulas were licenced to Aerotech. "Kosdon by Aerotech" is the brand for these propellants for use in old Kosdon casings.

Paul Robinson licensed the general Kosdon design for snap-ring style motors and formed "Kosdon East". They developed their own formulas and became Animal Motor Works. They also redesigned the Kosdon casings with new closures, improved nozzles, and liners. The "technology exchanged" survives today only in the general casing ID/OD.

Other companies use similar style casings, such as Ellis Mountain, Loki, and now Gorilla Motors. There are also hybrid motors that use snapring closures. There is no patent on the Kosdon approach, considering that snapring closures had been used for years in rocketry. Aerotech and Cesaroni have patents on their designs.
 
So those Kosdon motors are really AMW?
I didn't mean to start a debate - I just wanted to know if there is a motor vendor I have not yet heard of :)
 
darkhelmet said:
I'm sorry to say, with all due respect, you're wrong.

The Kosdon brand name and the Kosdon propellant formulas were licenced to Aerotech. "Kosdon by Aerotech" is the brand for these propellants for use in old Kosdon casings.

Paul Robinson licensed the general Kosdon design for snap-ring style motors and formed "Kosdon East". They developed their own formulas and became Animal Motor Works. They also redesigned the Kosdon casings with new closures, improved nozzles, and liners. The "technology exchanged" survives today only in the general casing ID/OD.

Other companies use similar style casings, such as Ellis Mountain, Loki, and now Gorilla Motors. There are also hybrid motors that use snapring closures. There is no patent on the Kosdon approach, considering that snapring closures had been used for years in rocketry. Aerotech and Cesaroni have patents on their designs.
Click to expand...

Great post with good information and a polite correction, too. Thanks!
 
ghost said:
I saw it on the NAR motor list, but never heard of 'em...
Click to expand...

He's one of the motor pioneers, more active in the late 80's early 90's.
His propellant/motor formulations were generally fairly sledge-hammer style compared to Aerotech's more consumer-friendly stuff (maybe you could call'em "Warp 4 or 5" ;) )

He also had a different design for reload casings (don't know if he was the originator: Synerjet had similar snap-ring construction).
He had some health problems and some legal entanglements with Jerry Irvine.

He's considered to be quite a character. There's some video made by Irvine of Frank at a launch maybe 10 years ago floating around out on the web somewhere.
 
I had the good fortune of meeting Frank Kosdon several years ago at an LDRS in Amarillo, TX. Indeed, he is a colorful individual ;) A group of rocketeers stood around one evening talking with Frank, and some of the stories he told us were absolute gems!

I wish I knew half the stuff that he's forgotten about propellant!

Best Regards
 
Frankr.JPG


Yeah, that nosecone is graphite
 
Aerotech just uploaded their new catalog and it has the Kosdon motors listed in there now.
 
eastvolt said:
Aerotech just uploaded their new catalog and it has the Kosdon motors listed in there now.
Click to expand...

And they also have down on the next page that they are officially coming out w/ the green propellant soon!
 
darkhelmet said:
I'm sorry to say, with all due respect, you're wrong.

The Kosdon brand name and the Kosdon propellant formulas were licenced to Aerotech. "Kosdon by Aerotech" is the brand for these propellants for use in old Kosdon casings.

Paul Robinson licensed the general Kosdon design for snap-ring style motors and formed "Kosdon East". They developed their own formulas and became Animal Motor Works. They also redesigned the Kosdon casings with new closures, improved nozzles, and liners. The "technology exchanged" survives today only in the general casing ID/OD.

Other companies use similar style casings, such as Ellis Mountain, Loki, and now Gorilla Motors. There are also hybrid motors that use snapring closures. There is no patent on the Kosdon approach, considering that snapring closures had been used for years in rocketry. Aerotech and Cesaroni have patents on their designs.
Click to expand...

Wow, I'm impressed...(really):))

Someone that has actually gotten most of the facts correct..

I won't get into any of the legal issues, agreements, that have now been violated.(that's not for any forum) Please don't ask..
What I will say..

Like it's been noted on some of the other threads, there WILL definately be a warrantee issue, with any hardware AMW makes, that brand A makes a load for, or any other non licensed manfg.

I am sorry, I couldn't be at LDRS, but I felt my time was better served developing final plans for new products, and integrating to a new Manf. location.
Had a very productive meeting in Sarasota Florida, Friday:))

Down time should be less than 3 months, asuming the governing authorities drag their butts.
Now if we get lucky, it might be sooner.
New designs are already being drawn, paperwork is in process for ERD &DOT approval

What I can say, is that you will see new types of propellant.And some new process.(well most won't ever get to actually see the process:)))

Can you spell Plastic Extrusions. Like High performance, easy to make, and JUST GREAT for the Hobby Line market!! (No they are not hybrids)Though the high speed extrusion tooling& equipment was rather expensive.

Don't worry, we will be continuing all our regular stuff, as well as many NEW product bases..

Most all will be available to all markets(US, Canada, Europe, maybe even on the planet Krypton:))Oh yea and Kalafornia...

Sorry that's about all I can say at this time, but I did want to give a update..

Paul
 
rrocket said:
Wow, I'm impressed...(really):))


I am sorry, I couldn't be at LDRS, but I felt my time was better served developing final plans for new products, and integrating to a new Manf. location.
Had a very productive meeting in Sarasota Florida, Friday:))

Paul
Click to expand...

Paul,

I'm offended, If you were in the Sarasota area you should have called. I told you lunch was on me next time.

Anthony J. Cesaroni
President/CEO
Cesaroni Technology/Cesaroni Aerospace
https://www.cesaronitech.com/
(941) 360-3100 x101 Sarasota
(905) 887-2370 x222 Toronto
 
Sorry Anthony.

I just assumed you were finally going to attend LDRS...

I know Celeon Dion took a month off:-((
Otherwise it would have been worth the trip just to see her..
Paul
 
Yea Paul.....I completely re-did Gone Bananas [complete with green, powered by ''Kryptonite'' stickers] in anticipation of your showing up at LDRS . But it is a mute point, now as you well know, due to the fact it was incinerated in the trailer! I will still be waiting for your introduction of the new improved Kryptonite green when you get back up to speed. Maybe I'll re-do the rocket as a Green Banana !
 
Dr. Kosdon, is a good friend and Rocketeer, I have flown his motors (N) in my scud1 El Dorado dry lake springfest 2000 although the aircraft had issues the motor performed flawlessly. I was grrstful to the Dr. For the advice And help to fly this. This motor was one of the original of the Doctors creations,.

If your reading this thanks for everything
PS the scrap burn was awesome that night.
 
ghost said:
So those Kosdon motors are really AMW?
I didn't mean to start a debate - I just wanted to know if there is a motor vendor I have not yet heard of :)
Click to expand...
There is a list of current and past commercial manufacturers on ThrustCurve.org:
https://www.thrustcurve.org/mfrsearch.jsp

If any marked "active" have gone out of business since last I checked, please let me know and I'll update the motors and manufacturer records.
 

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