Which Mfr for Casings?

[Tomflysrc]

I am hoping for help in deciding on which way to lean in regards to AT or CSI, or LOKI when it comes to 29mm and 38mm motors.
I can’t believe the price on some of these casings, especially being just aluminum tubes!
So, with that said, I’m trying to get the category focused for myself in order to not “re-spend” money uselessly.
Aero tech, or CSI. Or Loki?
I have currently a CSI 29mm 3-grain casing (with 2 spacers) and also an AT 29/40-120 casing.
I am interested in stepping up to 38mm for my Mach1 rockets.
Your opinions please!

 

[tim cubbedge]

A lot of your decision should be based on what motors your local vendor carries. Also smallest Loki makes these days are 38mm so take that into account. Me personally I have all three manufacturers. Variety is the spice in life.

 

[conman13]

Depending on how large of motors you’re going to fly you can buy Loki reloads up to the 38-480 case with non-Haz-Mat shipping. Scott also has some killer motors and they’re very simple to assemble.

 

[Eric]

We dont get Loki out here. So I fly AT and CTI. My local vendor carries both. There is no way I could have picked just one.

A lot of my hardware was purchased used off of the forum when a great deal pops up. Or when online vendors have an amazing annual sale.

CTI are super fast to assemble, and ALL ship HAZ. There are also a lot of different motor types.

AT requires more attention to build up, and I love taking my time and assembling a motor. You can also get some "H, I, and J" motor shipped no hazmat.

I cant pick a favorite, and wouldn't want too. I prefer to EOAPF. (Equal Opportunity Ammonium Proclorate Flyer).

Good luck on your choice. I would not want to be in your shoes. Lol. I would see what your local vendor sells, and keep an eye out for a good deal on hardware.

 

[DavidMcCann]

Personally, I use Aerotech for 29mm, If you're looking to spend as little as possible, get the 29/240 It has the widest variety of loads, and is a great size I find. I love the 360 case too, but it only has a red and a white load. They're awesome loads, but If I could only have one, it'd be the 240.

For 38, It's going to depend on how you want to fly. You mentioned you want to go fast, So we're talking CTI 6XL, Aerotech 38/1320, and Loki 38/1200.

These loads run about 90-120 a pop. They're worth every penny, but you have to ask if that's something you're likely to do once a month or more.

Loki is the clear cut king in 38mm.

K1127 has a total impulse of 1285Ns
K627 has a Total impulse: 1519.0Ns
(there are a total of five loads for the case, white, blue, sparky, red, and cocktail, but those two are the stars.)

Aerotech's J510 is no slouch, but it's the only load in the case and it's fun, but doesn't touch the Loki loads.
Total impulse: 1162.0Ns

CTI's largest in the 38 6 XL case is the J530, coming in at a total impulse of 1115Ns I've never flown them, and dislike CTI 38's. So take my advice on them with a grain of salt.


If you're looking for something to fly more often, but not balls to the wall, the Loki 38/480 case, 38/740 case, or the aerotech 38/360 or 720 may be better choices. Depends how big of a rocket you wish to fly, and how high and fast.

For what it's worth, I had full sets of 29 and 38 in both aerotech, and CTI, and Loki.
I sold all my CTI cases, sold all the aerotech 38's, and only kept my AT 29/40-120 180,240 and 360 (pairs of each to cluster). Still have my Loki 38 120/480/740 and 1200. Everything 54 and 76 is loki for me, though I regret selling my AT 54/1706. that case rocks.

 

[afadeev]

I am hoping for help in deciding on which way to lean in regards to AT or CSI, or LOKI when it comes to 29mm and 38mm motors.

Loki does not have 29mm motors. At all.

Aero tech, or CSI. Or Loki?

What are your priorities/concerns?
Reload price?
Ease of assembly?
Shipping/Hazmat costs?
Availability (local or mail order)?
Maximum impulse available (what is your club's waiver)?

Since you did not clarify, I would vote for one of each!

I can’t believe the price on some of these casings, especially being just aluminum tubes!
So, with that said, I’m trying to get the category focused for myself in order to not “re-spend” money uselessly.

So it sounds like price is your major concern.
In that case, net of typical discounts, costs are as follows: AT < CTI < Loki.

Don't worry about hardware prices, as your major expense items will be the reload$/motor$ that you will be burning with regularity. You can always sell the used motor hardware for ~80% of cost down the road.

I have currently a CSI 29mm 3-grain casing (with 2 spacers) and also an AT 29/40-120 casing.
I am interested in stepping up to 38mm for my Mach1 rockets.
Your opinions please!

OK, so which 29mm reloads did you burn more frequently: AT or CTI (Cesaroni Technology Incorporated is traditionally abbreviated as CTI)?
And why?

All else being equal, the same will likely hold true for 38mm motors.

A lot of your decision should be based on what motors your local vendor carries. Also smallest Loki makes these days are 38mm so take that into account. Me personally I have all three manufacturers. Variety is the spice in life.

Most local clubs do NOT have a local vendor, so while interesting, the above consideration is not usually significant.

Other points - agreed.

a

 

[grouch]

Flip a coin and find what your local motor pimp sells. Understand this is a start of a long journey that will eventually lead you to having more cases from each manufacturer than you will ever use. In the name of downsizing I have pretty much weeded everything that isn't 29mm AT. Reason being is they are haz free and they fly what I want to fly.

 

[tim cubbedge]

Most local clubs do NOT have a local vendor, so while interesting, the above consideration is not usually significant.

Well maybe not where you live but in Florida we have 4 HP clubs and they all have either AT or CTI motor vendors at every launch.

 

[DavidMcCann]

Well maybe not where you live but in Florida we have 4 HP clubs and they all have either AT or CTI motor vendors at every launch.

Same, both local clubs here in NY have vendors that carry each.... even a Loki dealer.

 

[Uncrichie]

I would pick the MFG. that will have the reloads available that you want to fly. Talk with others in your club and see which reloads are usually available and which ones are not. Nothing worse than sitting on hardware and nothing to load'em with, when You want too!

 

[mikec]

Or don't buy any hardware and fly AT DMS single-use motors. If you don't fly often enough to amortize the cost of the hardware it's probably a wash as to price.

 

[jimzcatz]

It's not "just an aluminum tube". It's 6061 T6 drawn on mandrel tubing .The cost of threading those tubes and making the closures isn't as cheap or as easy as one might think The cheapest would be the snap ring stuff but nobody wants to put a freaking motor together anymore. SMDH!

 

[afadeev]

Same, both local clubs here in NY have vendors that carry each.... even a Loki dealer.

No doubt, but that's not the reality for most clubs.

Overall, there far more vedor-less NAR/TRA sections/perfectures, than there are those with 1+ vendors on site at every launch. In my area, 1 out of 3 has a vendor presence, and the fourth one has one occasionally.

a

 

[DavidMcCann]

The shorter version is to say-

The question isn't what case to get. The question is what motor(s) do you want to fly. To answer that, you have to decide what rocket you want to fly, and how high. Then find the range of motors that will do that. Then look at those motors, consider cost, availability, and preference of burn profiles on those motors, and then get the case for that motor.

 

[DavidMcCann]

No doubt, but that's not the reality for most clubs.

Overall, there far more vedor-less NAR/TRA sections/perfectures, than there are those with 1+ vendors on site at every launch. In my area, 1 out of 3 has a vendor presence, and the fourth one has one occasionally.

a

You're looking at a tiny segment, one state....4 clubs, and trying to paint the whole country with that?

I'd bet most clubs have a vendor, and the ones that don't, do a mass order yearly to save shipping you could get in on.

 

[Tomflysrc]

Wow! Thank You All for your inputs! I sincerely appreciate each one.
As I was typing “CSI” I kept thinking that doesn’t sound right. Indeed CTI is proper.
I’m going to investigate my “wants” in regards to realistic expectations, especially for the 38mm stuff.
I don’t know enough yet about each motor avail, but having an option during a launch event and vendor availability will need to be factored in.
I just recently joined MARS in upstate NY, and often the waiver is to 14k. I’ll be pestering the club also
Thanks again for the truly valuable opinions and data!

 

[Nytrunner]

Wow! Thank You All for your inputs! I sincerely appreciate each one.
As I was typing “CSI” I kept thinking that doesn’t sound right. Indeed CTI is proper.
I’m going to investigate my “wants” in regards to realistic expectations, especially for the 38mm stuff.
I don’t know enough yet about each motor avail, but having an option during a launch event and vendor availability will need to be factored in.
I just recently joined MARS in upstate NY, and often the waiver is to 14k. I’ll be pestering the club also
Thanks again for the truly valuable opinions and data!

Can't add much better advice than you've already gotten above! Ypu've been given the pro's cons of them all, and in my experience, none of them are glaringly deficient. Kind of a Coke/Pepsi/RC deal where it comes to preference

I fly CTI and have cases and spaces for 24-54mm flying. I started with cert specials as a broke college student and came to appreciate the ease of cleanup and quick ignition of their loads. I'm a lucky one with a well stocked vendor at launches, so the hazmat is negated (Thanks CS!)

That being said, I plan to start picking up AT hardware as the rocket budget allows so I can fly those reloads also. Plus there are Disposable Motors (DMS) that are fun too.

 

[Andrew_ASC]

The Aerotech 38-240, 38-360, and 38-1080 casings have one hazmat free load.

I flew two of the AT 38-240 H-130W’s last year. Great motor hazmat free. One H219T DMs. One H123W. Then some 29mm CTI stuff for university. Assembly of an Aerotech motor isn’t bad if you start with Aerotech brand. If you start with CTI where you slide a black tube full of propellant all sealed into a casing then screw a closure you will complain AT is harder. If you start with AT then CTI seems like a joke to assemble.

I bought CTI hardware in 24mm for performance. The university played with CTI and Aerotech DMS motors for altitude records. I bought AT hardware in 24mm for the hazmat free mid power loads. I bought AT hardware in 38mm for the hazmat free loads and metal aft closures. I want to expand into Loki motors specifically the 38-1200 casing and K1127. The Loki 38-480 casing interests me for no hazmat reasons. I bought the 38-480 casing from AT for the warp 9 loads. I bought a 38-720 casing AT used for L2 due to the vendor popularity.

Anytime I can avoid hazmat I will. I don’t fly with a club yet. It’s a wonderful feeling to get a HPR motor in USPS mail without hazmat. I respect all brands for different reasons. You need to sim stuff to figure out what motors you want.

I’m more of I want to fly low and cheap or very high alt and hazmat costs be screwed for max performance. Don’t limit yourself to one brand. I used to be a CTI hater. CTI hater no more. Playing with md multistage rockets on a university budget for maxing performance allowed me to experiment with motors for free and it was an eye opener to gee other brands have good reloads too! Sometimes some rockets really dig one makers propellant mixture for altitude.

Fly Loki, CTI, and AT. You will enjoy the hobby more. Just start in a brand and expand.

 

[JohnCoker]

Or don't buy any hardware and fly AT DMS single-use motors. If you don't fly often enough to amortize the cost of the hardware it's probably a wash as to price.

I use single-use motors whenever possible (even though I have lots of AT hardware.) It's just a lot easier not to have to clean cases.

 

[solid_fuel]

Not sure if has been mentioned yet but the closures for the 29/40-120 do NOT fit the other AeroTech 29mm motor cases. I bring this up since you mentioned that you have that case in the OP.

 

[DavidMcCann]

I just recently joined MARS in upstate NY, and often the waiver is to 14k. I’ll be pestering the club also
Thanks again for the truly valuable opinions and data!

MARS! Excellent! I’m a member of URRG. The local scene is awesome and friendly. People should be willing to show you lots of gear and motors, and between MARS events, Teddy showing tonour launches with Loki, and URRG events, many vendors of all kinds come through town regularly.