Where to get ematches?

[jqavins]

If they do, then they are violating the Fourth Amendment. They would need an authorization from the FISA court to conduct a search of any U.S. person's electronic purchasing records, and said authorization would only be issued given probable cause that a crime or act of terrorism had been committed, or is in the process of being planned or committed.

If eBay volunteers the information that may not be true. On the other hand, if eBay knows the sales are illegal, I think (or at least I'd like to think) they wouldn't allow the listing. Now, BATFE could be looking for listings of such goods and tracking the sellers, but eBay doesn't provide the buyers' names or UIDs to the casual user, and I should think BATFE has better things to do than troll eBay all day.

 

[heada]

Aren't ematches specifically listed as a controlled item by the BATFE and thus any sellers should keep a log of who they sold to? Its been a while since I've reviewed the list of items the BATFE regulates.

 

[prfesser]

A good friend purchased over 300 starters from China, I don't know the companies but low price and free shipping. Used them to start motors and to start consumer fireworks. Not a single failure to fire in the first 150.

Best -- Terry

 

[mrwalsh85]

If eBay volunteers the information that may not be true. On the other hand, if eBay knows the sales are illegal, I think (or at least I'd like to think) they wouldn't allow the listing. Now, BATFE could be looking for listings of such goods and tracking the sellers, but eBay doesn't provide the buyers' names or UIDs to the casual user, and I should think BATFE has better things to do than troll eBay all day.

Wanna bet it's a handshake deal? "We'll let you keep your listings alive and make some money so long as you volunteer this stuff to us... and maybe a thank you tip at the end of year"....

I use the MJG blue/white matches. Works pretty well. Don't need a permit for these since it's a different composition than the JTeks. I use e-matches for my motor igniters... Tape a sliver... or a slug... of Blue Thunder (I bought a 3pk of E28's for this purpose) to the match head and insert and enjoy. Bigger motors, bigger slug... or slugs... I got pretty aggressive with the Loki M3464.. Used 1/3 of an E28 grain. Ignition still wasn't instantaneous but it definitely lit.

 

[farsidius]

A good friend purchased over 300 starters from China, I don't know the companies but low price and free shipping. Used them to start motors and to start consumer fireworks. Not a single failure to fire in the first 150.

Best -- Terry

I've used well over 250 starters from China and I've never had one fail to work. I've purchased from both Amazon and Ebay. I was a little hesitant at first and only used them as primaries on my dual altimeter flights (with my locally sourced starters as backup), but now I use them for all my charges and, as needed, for motor ignitors.

-brant

 

[electricmatch]

The biggest problem for me with the Firewires is the length. I cut mine down to about 4 inches for use in charge wells. Just needs to get from the terminal block to the well. I like the Bilusocn because you can get them in one foot lengths. With the Firewires, I'd have to throw away almost three feet of copper every time I use one.

we hear you, and should have 1 foot available in the next month. (December of 2018)

 

[electricmatch]

I use them to start 29 mm BP motors. They work great.


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

for deployment, most need a low voltage, so they use the firewire

 

[electricmatch]

If eBay volunteers the information that may not be true. On the other hand, if eBay knows the sales are illegal, I think (or at least I'd like to think) they wouldn't allow the listing. Now, BATFE could be looking for listings of such goods and tracking the sellers, but eBay doesn't provide the buyers' names or UIDs to the casual user, and I should think BATFE has better things to do than troll eBay all day.

ebay and amazon are somehow not responsible. they are explosives, and break DOT, FAA, and ATF laws. however they come after the end user. You can buy herion online too. It doesn't make it legal. we have done a lot of research and took a lot of time and money to develop our rocketry products. None you need a license for. We are a USA company being held to USA's legal and shipping requirements.

electricmatch.com/rocketry

 

[electricmatch]

I've used well over 250 starters from China and I've never had one fail to work. I've purchased from both Amazon and Ebay. I was a little hesitant at first and only used them as primaries on my dual altimeter flights (with my locally sourced starters as backup), but now I use them for all my charges and, as needed, for motor ignitors.

-brant

ebay and amazon are somehow not responsible. they are explosives, and break DOT, FAA, and ATF laws. however they come after the end user. You can buy herion online too. It doesn't make it legal. we have done a lot of research and took a lot of time and money to develop our rocketry products. None you need a license for. We are a USA company being held to USA's legal and shipping requirements.

electricmatch.com/rocketry

 

[electricmatch]

Where's a good place to get good quality, cheap ematches?
And, also, where's a good place to get igniters for BIG motors. Like M and above, (without having to need a special permit).
Thank you all,
Ben

electricmatch.com/rocketry we have a list of rocket starters depending on your needs. all are not regulated and ship by US mail.

 

[electricmatch]

Where's a good place to get good quality, cheap ematches?
And, also, where's a good place to get igniters for BIG motors. Like M and above, (without having to need a special permit).
Thank you all,
Ben

electricmatch.com/rocketry we have a list of rocket starters depending on your needs. all are not regulated and ship by US mail.

 

[farsidius]

ebay and amazon are somehow not responsible. they are explosives, and break DOT, FAA, and ATF laws. however they come after the end user. You can buy herion online too. It doesn't make it legal. we have done a lot of research and took a lot of time and money to develop our rocketry products. None you need a license for. We are a USA company being held to USA's legal and shipping requirements.

electricmatch.com/rocketry

Stop spamming your ad here. Everything I ordered came shipped and labeled with exactly what was inside. Just because they sell cheaper doesn't make them irresponsible. Fearmongering isn't effective advertising. You've just made sure I'll never visit your website.

 

[dshmel]

Ematches can be ordered from China for cheap via eBay or Aliexpress. I always test each one for proper resistance before use.

 

[Nathan]

I am going to order some MJG Firewires to try using for deployment charges. Lots of testing and then small rockets first. I want to make sure that they are just as reliable as J-tek igniters before I use them in large rockets, where if the deployment charges fail to fire I have a 75 lb rocket coming in ballistic like an ICBM. Even with redundant deployment charges, the igniters must be 100% reliable.

 

[mrwalsh85]

I am going to order some MJG Firewires to try using for deployment charges. Lots of testing and then small rockets first. I want to make sure that they are just as reliable as J-tek igniters before I use them in large rockets, where if the deployment charges fail to fire I have a 75 lb rocket coming in ballistic like an ICBM. Even with redundant deployment charges, the igniters must be 100% reliable.

If it's any consolation, I've been using the Firewire's as my charge initiators for the last two or three years. I always backed up one Firewire with an ematch of another known good type of igniter just to be safe. Never did I experience a single failure with the Firewire's. I know at the beginning there was a problem with the chemical sourcing for MJG but they've since corrected that. I flew my 17k shot at Airfest '17 with only Firewires on the recovery side and had 100% success.

Now I'm gonna go find the biggest piece of wood in this foundry and knock on it.

 

[electricmatch]

Stop spamming your ad here. Everything I ordered came shipped and labeled with exactly what was inside. Just because they sell cheaper doesn't make them irresponsible. Fearmongering isn't effective advertising. You've just made sure I'll never visit your website.

sorry to hear that, it definitely was not my intent. since all we do is igniters, we know the law very well. even our non regulated ship as explosives. the ATF and DOT are 2 different agencies. So if you get igniters from china, they are not allowed to fly, unless they are marked in 1.4s cartons. if they came by sea, they would have to have a special permit by the USPS, and would have do not fly stickers, and reference the UN0454. I am yet to see this happen. also, we are the only ones with a non regulated product. so an atf license is definitely required. it's a buyer beware situation.

 

[Nathan]

sorry to hear that, it definitely was not my intent. since all we do is igniters, we know the law very well. even our non regulated ship as explosives. the ATF and DOT are 2 different agencies. So if you get igniters from china, they are not allowed to fly, unless they are marked in 1.4s cartons. if they came by sea, they would have to have a special permit by the USPS, and would have do not fly stickers, and reference the UN0454. I am yet to see this happen. also, we are the only ones with a non regulated product. so an atf license is definitely required. it's a buyer beware situation.

What about the igniters that come with large APCP motors which often look exactly like J-tek ematches? If they are regulated then why is it okay to purchase them without a permit? If they are unregulated then yours is not the only non-regulated rocketry igniter product.

 

[cerving]

What about the igniters that come with large APCP motors which often look exactly like J-tek ematches? If they are regulated then why is it okay to purchase them without a permit? If they are unregulated then yours is not the only non-regulated rocketry igniter product.

"Starters" that come with a rocket motor are exempted.

 

[Steve Shannon]

"Starters" that come with a rocket motor are exempted.

Exactly, as well as ejection charges.

 

[electricmatch]

What about the igniters that come with large APCP motors which often look exactly like J-tek ematches? If they are regulated then why is it okay to purchase them without a permit? If they are unregulated then yours is not the only non-regulated rocketry igniter product.

Please remember, we do not make the rules, we only pay the fines if we break them. In short, what comes with motors are electric matches, and these are exempt. (The file attached is directly from our ATF agent). you can also look here, just search igniters https://www.atf.gov/explosives/docs...ves-laws-and-regulations-atf-p-54007/download. So what you are getting from ebay/amazon are igniters, and a license is required. Igniters became regulated after the safety explosives act in 2003. These igniters from ebay/amazon also do not ship as 1.4s explosives, which is what the DOT requires (for land and sea), or IATA(air transport)

What we did was develop an igniter, that would not be regulated, this is the firewire. Why the ATF regulated and why they do not, took us 2 years to figure out. However, we did accomplish it, so we made a full line of rocket igniters and starters to legally fill the need of the industry. hopefully this clears up some confusion.

 

[electricmatch]

What about the igniters that come with large APCP motors which often look exactly like J-tek ematches? If they are regulated then why is it okay to purchase them without a permit? If they are unregulated then yours is not the only non-regulated rocketry igniter product.

Are they installed? that could be an exemption. However I would guess they are not "igniters"....somehow.... with some loophole. If they are coming from a reputable company like Aerotech, CTI, or Estes, I'm sure they have done their research. Other companies may just not know, and will sell them until they find out. This is why you sometimes see products appear and disappear.

 

[markkoelsch]

Please remember, we do not make the rules, we only pay the fines if we break them. In short, what comes with motors are electric matches, and these are exempt. (The file attached is directly from our ATF agent). you can also look here, just search igniters https://www.atf.gov/explosives/docs...ves-laws-and-regulations-atf-p-54007/download. So what you are getting from ebay/amazon are igniters, and a license is required. Igniters became regulated after the safety explosives act in 2003. These igniters from ebay/amazon also do not ship as 1.4s explosives, which is what the DOT requires (for land and sea), or IATA(air transport)

What we did was develop an igniter, that would not be regulated, this is the firewire. Why the ATF regulated and why they do not, took us 2 years to figure out. However, we did accomplish it, so we made a full line of rocket igniters and starters to legally fill the need of the industry. hopefully this clears up some confusion.

And what is the difference? Is it chemical composition?

 

[electricmatch]

"Starters" that come with a rocket motor are exempted.

our government has many rules to protect us exemption is different than not regulated. I'm sure the big companies know what and how to do it. It's the ebay/amazon sellers I'm referring to.

 

[electricmatch]

And what is the difference? Is it chemical composition?

that my friend is the secret. it took us 2 years to figure it out. I could tell you but........

 

[blackjack2564]

Starters have never been regulated...igniters & e-matches are.
Only thing I see on your box is the regulation quoting about e-matches. Your labeling states your product is initiators or starters.
Nowhere on the box does call your product e-match's. Of course they are not regulated.

You don't show anywhere how you are exempt, nor do you post an exemption letter for YOUR product, just a blanket statement quoting reg's about starters. Does your product actually have an exemption, or just the "blanket" starter statement.
Please clarify thank you, very confusing.

Nano thermite pyrogen?
Molecularly stable...static immune/resistant?

 

[heada]

Igniters, e-matches, starters, etc. that come with the motor are legally components of the motor. That is why companies like Aerotech can sell the vials of bp or CTI could sell the ematches, they're sold as replacement parts of the motor.

 

[electricmatch]

Starters have never been regulated...igniters & e-matches are.
Only thing I see on your box is the regulation quoting about e-matches. Your labeling states your product is initiators or starters.
Nowhere on the box does call your product e-match's. Of course they are not regulated.

You don't show anywhere how you are exempt, nor do you post an exemption letter for YOUR product, just a blanket statement quoting reg's about starters. Does your product actually have an exemption, or just the "blanket" starter statement.
Please clarify thank you, very confusing.

Nano thermite pyrogen?
Molecularly stable...static immune/resistant?

 

[electricmatch]

our letter is attached.

It's more than just the name of the products. Anyone with a potential product is responsible for contacting the ATF and DOT. They must submit samples, formulas, test results, and firing characteristics. Once tested and if approved, you will get a letter like the attached. We were denied several times, well not denied, but considered low explosives. Any of our customers that are approached by the ATF with questions on our products, simply have the agent call the number on the box.

I guess you are correct, anyone can say they are exempt, again, buying from a reputable company is the safest bet.

 

[rfjustin]

Dude, electricmatch, LET IT GO. You are the best price by far, I have ordered from you personally, very pleased with the transaction. Your continued participation in this thread is not in your best interest, trust me.

End...

 

[blackjack2564]

Thank you...that makes it all very clear. Good luck with your venture, you have seemed to solve an age old problem for rocketeers!!

 

[Nathan]

Just ordered 80 Firewire "Initiators" from MJG. Question for Mr. Electricmatch: You also have a product called "Composite Rocket Starter". Not clear what the difference is. I assume that the Firewires can be fired with a 9V battery and the Starters require 12V. Is that correct?