When your first 2-Stage flight doesn't work, but still totally works.

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StreuB1

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So this past weekend I decided to fly my recently completed Madcow Nike-Apache. This is my first 2-stage HPR and it was a both fun and challenging.

While the flight did not go as panned, it still ended safely thanks to the electronics and myself being conservative when setting up the electronics in order to keep the flight safe.

Boost was on an AT H669N staging to an AT G138T with an expected altitude of 3100'. I wanted to keep it conservative, low, and with fast burn motors.

Booster electronics was a Missileworks RRC2L using the MOCS to fire the separation charge (0.5g of 3F BP acting on a cardboard piston plate with wadding). Main deploys at apogee since it wasn't going high at all.

Sustainer electronics was a Missileworks RRC3 in dual deploy mode with the AUX channel configured for OCS with a One-Shot timer with altitude comparator.

I was very tight on my timing to altitude for staging based on my sims as I wanted to be very conservative and very safe. The sustainer did not reach the comparator altitude, or it did not reach it in time before the one-shot timed out (have not looked at the data yet), so it locked out the AUX channel and fired the drogue and main since it did not reach the minimum safe dual deploy altitude.

Both booster and sustainer recovered without issue and I received a round of applause by the U of I Engineering students on the flight line. Kind of felt good getting an applause to be honest.......

Notice in the video what happened with the sustainer motor.

Already figured out what likely happened and have a fix ready for its next flight attempt at Mini Midwest power in a few weeks.


Some might call this a failure. I call it a complete success as everything worked as expected, even when it didn't work as planned.

 
Any idea why the motor was spit out? What was your retention method? Still nice flight. My first 2 stage was similar using same electronics/method. Didn’t light off either as didn’t reach altitude in time.
 
Any idea why the motor was spit out? What was your retention method? Still nice flight. My first 2 stage was similar using same electronics/method. Didn’t light off either as didn’t reach altitude in time.

Using an AT motor hook adapted for use on this kit. Adrian thinks that its due to the ramp on the hook as he has seen that before. Next flight, I will put a turn of wire wrapping wire or a zip tie around the hook and motor to hold it in place. Easy fix.
 
Nice attempt and yes, recovery went well and safe. That does merit applause.

I have lost motor cases using motor hooks. So I put tape around them but still had a D12 get spit out when the ejection charge fired. Now Only BP motors use hooks. All composite motors have positive retention.

I've also been experimenting with 2-stage Airstart. 2 flights so far. First weather cocked off rail but all went well. 2nd flight I used a longer rail for higher speed and no weather cock. However, sustainer (AT D15) took 3.5 seconds to light and by that time the rocket had arched over and was pointing down. Igniter fired at correct time so no lock-out could have prevent this. It is being rebuilt to fly again.
 
You forgot the still…View attachment 517810
Luckily some eagle eyed old fart found your upper stage motor… ;)


How you found that, in the tall grass, still baffles me. Someone was looking out for me on Saturday, that's for sure! I owe you a beer! :D

I am still psyched that the flight happened the way it did. Having it fail exactly as planned was almost better to watch than if it would have worked.

At Mini, the booster will be an I599N or an I300T and not sure what yet in the sustainer. I think I'll keep it a G for now.....
 
How you found that, in the tall grass, still baffles me. Someone was looking out for me on Saturday, that's for sure! I owe you a beer! :D

I am still psyched that the flight happened the way it did. Having it fail exactly as planned was almost better to watch than if it would have worked.

Definitely a shorter walk for the sustainer... :D 🤔
 
Nice attempt and yes, recovery went well and safe. That does merit applause.

I have lost motor cases using motor hooks. So I put tape around them but still had a D12 get spit out when the ejection charge fired. Now Only BP motors use hooks. All composite motors have positive retention.

I've also been experimenting with 2-stage Airstart. 2 flights so far. First weather cocked off rail but all went well. 2nd flight I used a longer rail for higher speed and no weather cock. However, sustainer (AT D15) took 3.5 seconds to light and by that time the rocket had arched over and was pointing down. Igniter fired at correct time so no lock-out could have prevent this. It is being rebuilt to fly again.

Unfortunately due to how small the sustainer diameter is, there is nearly zero room to pass the ignitor wiring between the airframe and the MMT and still get the interstage coupler in. This means there is no room for a traditional retainer, unfortunately.
 
Definitely a shorter walk for the sustainer... :D 🤔

What really amazes me is that the sustainer arced over and the camera was just in the right position to catch not only the entire booster sequence of operations, but also to catch the sustainer spit the motor AND catch the motor CAP in frame.

Did I tell you I found the actual cap for the motor as well?

Honestly.....how does that even happen??
 
I thought that was the cap in the picture, but thought, naw surely we would be able to see that... and don't call me Shirly :cool:
 
Not gonna lie, pretty awesome to watch the deployment of the booster..

Glad you found everything!
 
Not gonna lie, pretty awesome to watch the deployment of the booster..

Glad you found everything!

Agreed!!! Thats one of the reasons I really did the slowmo portion. The booster separation and deployment looked amazing! 😄
 
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