When Was YOUR First CATO?

[jadebox]

And not correct..It isn't an acronym, or backronym..

"CATO" is an acronym.

"Cato," however, ....

... is merely a shortening of the word 'catastrophic.'

Suggesting that an informal, made-up abbreviation ("cato") is more correct than an informal, made-up acronym ("CATO") is silly and pedantic.

-- Roger

 

[shreadvector]

"CATO" is an acronym.

"Cato," however, ....


Suggesting that an informal, made-up abbreviation ("cato") is more correct than an informal, made-up acronym ("CATO") is silly and pedantic.

-- Roger

No need to 'suggest' anything. I presented facts. The made-up false acronym makes no sense unless you are talking about airplanes that "take off".

These are rockets. A rocket can have a catastrophic failure at any time during it's flight. Some of theose failres are motor related ("cato of the motor") and others are airframe related (if a fin strips off and the rocket disintegrates, it is simply a "cato"). Most often the slang term is used just for motor failures.

A motor burning through the casing wall at high speed and hundreds of feet in the air (or ejecting well before the certified delay time) is a "cato" and has nothing to do with an airplane or any other "take off".

Insisting on defending a clearly exposed false-acronym created by someone else long ago when they did not understand the slang they heard at a launch is irrational. It has nothing to do with you: you did not make the original mistake or create the false acronym.

Now, all of you readers can choose to understand and move forward and use the term correctly or you can continue to use it incorrectly and poison the minds of generations to come.

Just like using the term "burn-out" instead of "misfire". Anyone out there want to defend that incorrect usage as well?

https://www.jedisaber.com/SW/Sounds/STW41.wav

 

[cjl]

By definition, it's a backronym.

A backronym or bacronym is a phrase constructed after the fact to make an existing word or words into an acronym

If that doesn't fit the way many people use the word cato, I don't know what does.

As for the ridiculous pedantry of "take off" vs "blast off" vs "lift off"? Give it a rest.

thefreedictionary.com defines take off (def. 6) as:
"6. To rise into the air or begin flight"

I'm pretty sure that when we launch our rockets, they rise into the air and begin flight.

The oxford online english dictionary defines it as:
"1: an act or the action of becoming airborne"

Last I checked, our rockets do indeed become airborne.

Basically, while it is true that cato was not originally meant to be an acronym, and the acronymizations (?) of the word are somewhat contrived and questionable, the problem is certainly not with the use of the phrase "take off", and it's honestly kind of ridiculous to attempt that level of nitpicking (especially incorrectly).

(And for the record, many catos are indeed explosions, but they are not detonations [I know I might be opening a whole other can of worms here])

 

[plano-doug]

Hey, I think saw that firsthand

Doug

.

 

[shreadvector]

By definition, it's a backronym.



If that doesn't fit the way many people use the word cato, I don't know what does.

As for the ridiculous pedantry of "take off" vs "blast off" vs "lift off"? Give it a rest.

thefreedictionary.com defines take off (def. 6) as:
"6. To rise into the air or begin flight"

I'm pretty sure that when we launch our rockets, they rise into the air and begin flight.

The oxford online english dictionary defines it as:
"1: an act or the action of becoming airborne"

Last I checked, our rockets do indeed become airborne.

Basically, while it is true that cato was not originally meant to be an acronym, and the acronymizations (?) of the word are somewhat contrived and questionable, the problem is certainly not with the use of the phrase "take off", and it's honestly kind of ridiculous to attempt that level of nitpicking (especially incorrectly).

(And for the record, many catos are indeed explosions, but they are not detonations [I know I might be opening a whole other can of worms here])

It is irrational to consider a motor failure that occurs at hundreds of feet in the air and to be at "take off".

Why would you want to insist on using such an inaccurate false-acronym?

Most people simply say "Oh, I see. I heard the wrong information and now I know the correct information, Thanks." They do not resist the correct information backed up by facts and defend the incorrect terminology with all of their might.

How about a thread defending "wheelbarrel" ?
https://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/wheelbarrel.html

 

[plano-doug]

When Was Your First CATO? ... Pictures

Here's a cool pic of a recent cato:

While the booster cato'd, the sustainer still lit and put in a good flight. Both sections were recovered in good condition.

Here's another cato pic, with a motor from the same pack, I suspect.

This time, the sustainer didn't light, and the outcome was ugly

Here's a close-up of the cato. It's a kewl pic even if the wreck wasn't.

Photo courtesy of Tim Sapp

Doug

.

 

[cjl]

It is irrational to consider a motor failure that occurs at hundreds of feet in the air and to be at "take off".

Why would you want to insist on using such an inaccurate false-acronym?

Most people simply say "Oh, I see. I heard the wrong information and now I know the correct information, Thanks." They do not resist the correct information backed up by facts and defend the incorrect terminology with all of their might.

How about a thread defending "wheelbarrel" ?
https://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/wheelbarrel.html

I don't consider cato as an acronym, nor do I consider most catos to occur at lift off, take off, blast off, or whatever else you want to call it. I was not defending it's use as an acronym (and you'll note that I stated that the acronyms are contrived and questionable). What I was defending was that based purely on use, cato is a backronym (which it is by definition), and our rockets do indeed take off - a fact which you attempted to deny here:

Rockets do not "take off" - aircraft do. Rockets lift-off or if they are from the 1950's and 1960's they may "blast-off".

I was not trying to say that catos occur primarily at takeoff, nor was I saying that its use as an acronym was accurate. You would have probably understood this better if you weren't trying to slam people with your "correct" terminology and nitpicking.

 

[shreadvector]

Take-off, eh?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rp9MXoBNL8

Rocket content mentioned inside. (Canadarm)

 

[hcmbanjo]

I'm rarely inspired to write lyrics or a parody,
but this thread has pushed me to this:

Sung to the classic Gershwin song;
LET'S CALL THE WHOLE THING OFF!

You say Cat-O and I say Kay-toe,
You say Ess-tiss and I say Ess-tees,
Glay-da, Glee-da
Motor - Engine,
Let’s call the whole thing off!

You say parachute, I say parasheet,
You say blast off and I say lift off,
Pee-ster, Pie-ster
Cen-tour-ee, Cen-chure-ee,
Let’s call the whole thing off!

LET'S CALL THE WHOLE THING OFF!
with apologies to the Gershwin family and fans

 

[shreadvector]

BRILLIANT!

Thank you!

:clap:

I'm rarely inspired to write lyrics or a parody,
but this thread has pushed me to this:

Sung to the classic Gershwin song;
LET'S CALL THE WHOLE THING OFF!

You say Cat-O and I say Kay-toe,
You say Ess-tiss and I say Ess-tees,
Glay-da, Glee-da
Motor - Engine,
Let’s call the whole thing off!

You say parachute, I say parasheet,
You say blast off and I say lift off,
Pee-ster, Pie-ster
Cen-tour-ee, Cen-chure-ee,
Let’s call the whole thing off!

LET'S CALL THE WHOLE THING OFF!
with apologies to the Gershwin family and fans

 

[RangerStl]

You know, Kevin will probably smack me for stirring the pot on the forum I'm responsible for moderating, but I got a chuckle from this:

https://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/3221/29/

Paragraph 4:

"Motors that have a history of CATO probably should be flown at greater distance than indicated in the code," McCreary said.

*snicker snicker*

 

[cjl]

Excellent

I have a stash of old AP motors I need to burn.

 

[qquake2k]

I don't know the story behind it, but this happened at a LUNAR launch in Jan/2009. Looks like it's an Estes Mean Machine.

https://www.jimjoey.net/lunarlaunchphotos010309/slides/IMGP2586b.html

https://www.jimjoey.net/lunarlaunchphotos010309/slides/IMGP2587b.html

 

[ScrapDaddy]

I don't know the story behind it, but this happened at a LUNAR launch in Jan/2009. Looks like it's an Estes Mean Machine.

https://www.jimjoey.net/lunarlaunchphotos010309/slides/IMGP2586b.html

https://www.jimjoey.net/lunarlaunchphotos010309/slides/IMGP2587b.html

I Think that is really cool, I thought I might have been a mod of a starlight Sky master

 

[DexterLB]

My first CATO was when I was demonstrating to some kids @ school that a rocket BT could be made out of a magazine (PC World in this case). Of course, I ended up being mocked - kids don't care if it was a faulty engine or faulty rocketeer.

 

[ScrapDaddy]

My first CATO was when I was demonstrating to some kids @ school that a rocket BT could be made out of a magazine (PC World in this case). Of course, I ended up being mocked - kids don't care if it was a faulty engine or faulty rocketeer.

Now that's irony

 

[MaxQ]

My first cato....? Probably around 1975.......
I was at college, and the mighty D motor had just come out...I had to try that.

I bought the Maxi V-2 kit, spent a good bit of time building it and painting it just right ...German splinter camo pattern in Testors military flats.

I took it to a big field and pushed the launch button, whereupon the D12-3 catoed as it lifted off the pad, and sprayed flaming debris out the forward end. Insides were totally incinerated.

"Oh the humanity...! It was a terrific crash ladies and gentlemen ...I.....I can't talk anymore,,,,,,,,"

 

[Kira_Majeric]

If you want to see Fantastic flights and lots of Catos; you should look up the Balls Launch. My boyfriend gets the DVDs from Rockets Magazine, they are fun to watch. It is an experimental launch at Black Rock NV. Balls 15 and 16 both have quite a few Catos.

 

[cjl]

If you want to see Fantastic flights and lots of Catos; you should look up the Balls Launch. My boyfriend gets the DVDs from Rockets Magazine, they are fun to watch. It is an experimental launch at Black Rock NV. Balls 15 and 16 both have quite a few Catos.

The "Cool and Really Cool flights" dvd has a bunch of interesting failures too.

 

[Kira_Majeric]

The "Cool and Really Cool flights" dvd has a bunch of interesting failures too.

I just ordered the second one of those for him, we should get it any day now.

 

[cjl]

I just ordered the second one of those for him, we should get it any day now.

Ooohh - I hadn't noticed that they have a second one now. I have the first. I'll need to get the second at some point though - the first one was really good.

 

[Kira_Majeric]

Ooohh - I hadn't noticed that they have a second one now. I have the first. I'll need to get the second at some point though - the first one was really good.

he collects the DVDs, they are fun to watch. but never as good as the real thing. ^_^

 

[MarkII]

Man, some of those projects at BALLS are really massive! :y:

"There were some problems on Day 2 with the launch of the enormous Maxi Dude... "

Now we know why the annual event was moved from New Jersey to Nevada.

Mark K.

 

[Ironnerd88]

I have yet to CATO... BUT...

My buddy Keith and I went out the the Michigan State Univ football team's practice field a few years ago and launched some rockets. He had some rockets and motors stashed in his crawlspace.

First flight was my Yellowjacket on a "D". COOL flight.

Next was one of his rockets (he had three, but I can't remember what they were). Good flight.

Then came Keith's second flight. BOOM! The motor failied and the propelland and delay came flying out of the top of the tubelike a roman candle sending the nose cone and burning bits of parachute flying several feet from the pad.

Then came Keith's third flight... BOOM! Almost the same as flight 2!

His first rocket landed on top of the Hockey building, so he climbed up at got it, finding my rocket on teh way back, and we both got ready for more flights.

My second flight went fine.

Keith's fourth flight got about a foot off the pad and --- BOOM! The previous two CATO's had cored out the body tubes, but this one actually blew out the bottom and trashed the rear of teh rocket and the fins.

He still had two motors left, but no rockets... We called it a day, and went to Charlie Kang's for Korean food.

I figure leaving Estes rocket motors in the crawl space for about a decade could be bad for them...

 

[ScrapDaddy]

Wait a minute Did those motors happen to be an Estes E15?

 

[cjl]

I figure leaving Estes rocket motors in the crawl space for about a decade could be bad for them...

Yeah - temperature cycles can cause their failure rate to skyrocket. They can be stored almost indefinitely as long as the environment is temperature controlled, but if it's something like a garage or unheated crawlspace, I wouldn't store motors there.

 

[Ironnerd88]

Wait a minute Did those motors happen to be an Estes E15?

Nope B6 or C6... can't remember exactly. But they were 18mm.

It sucked that Keith lost his rockets... But they were really cool CATOs

 

[Kira_Majeric]

Just viewed the Cool and Very Cool 2 DVD. It has some great CATOs, as well as some funny launches, like a Christmas tree launch. You guys should check it out.

 

[MattieShoes]

Does it have to be catastrophic to be a CATO?

The only engine failure I've experienced so far is an Estes C6 that spit out the entire nozzle. The rocket got maybe 30 feet in the air, then popped the chute, so no damage whatsoever. It was actually one of the most impressive LPR flights I've ever seen! heheh

 

[MarkII]

Does it have to be catastrophic to be a CATO?

The only engine failure I've experienced so far is an Estes C6 that spit out the entire nozzle. The rocket got maybe 30 feet in the air, then popped the chute, so no damage whatsoever. It was actually one of the most impressive LPR flights I've ever seen! heheh

I guess that you could term that one a nozzle failure or, more generally, a motor failure. I think that "cato" carries with it the understanding the the event was, indeed, catastrophic (shocking, epochal, legendary, historic, cataclysmic, earth-shattering, life-altering :shock: ). Sometimes for the worse, and sometimes for the better.

(At the risk of being swallowed up in the maelstrom that is the terminology debate, let me speculate that perhaps the all-caps version of the "Green Hornet word" became known because it was a scoring code used in NAR contests. All contest scoring codes are written in capital letters, and so it was with this one, too. Just about none of those Pink Book codes are acronyms but are instead almost entirely simple abbreviations. Writing them out in capital letters is apparently just a scoring convention - perhaps to reduce ambiguity. To me, the word "cato" looks like a classic bit of jargon, a slang term, that was probably in widespread use long before it ever appeared in capitals in the scriptural codex that is the USMRSC.)

MK