Whats the altitude achieved by each type of motor?

Discussion in 'The Watering Hole' started by RocketEnthusiast101, Nov 22, 2019.

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  1. Nov 22, 2019 #1

    RocketEnthusiast101

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    Hi. After searching on google regarding this topic, I did find calculations regarding the altitude achieved by rockets but I couldn't find an exact link related to this topic. I do know that there are several factors influencing the altitude gained by the rockets. But, I just want a rough idea or estimations from your experiences on what altitude each motor can deliver.
     
  2. Nov 22, 2019 #2

    Mushtang

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    I had a D12 motor that only achieved an altitude of 2 feet.
     
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  3. Nov 22, 2019 #3

    georgegassaway

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  4. Nov 22, 2019 #4

    timbucktoo

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    You won’t find an exact link to that topic. Sub minimum diameter rockets will give you the greatest altitude but weight/fin design/NC will all effect altitude in addition to your motor choice. I suggest you start by downloading open rocket or RASaero II, design your rocket and choose every imaginable motor you can fit in that rocket. There is no textbook answer for what you are asking.
     
  5. Nov 22, 2019 #5

    RocketEnthusiast101

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    wow. Thats like nothing.
     
  6. Nov 22, 2019 #6

    Mushtang

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    Well, it exploded at that altitude so it stopped gaining. Your mileage may vary.
     
  7. Nov 22, 2019 #7

    Nytrunner

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    Similar to your "how much thrust to reach 100km" question, the answer depends on many factors.

    A 24mm E motor by estes will go only ~90 meters in a 75mm diameter rocket because of the increased size and drag (and probably heavier). Put the same motor in a 29mm diameter rocket and it will go almost 400m because it has less drag (and probably less weight).
    As suggeseted above, experiment in thrustcurve to get an idea of how high certain rockets will go with various commercial motors http://www.thrustcurve.org/guidepage.jsp

    It's good that you are asking questions, but it would be beneficial to simplify the questions and start with the basics: How does a solid rocket motor or liquid rocket engine work (and what's the difference between them)? What forces act on a rocket vehicle during flight (how do you keep it going straight, what conditions will it experience, etc)?
     
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  8. Nov 23, 2019 #8

    Funkworks

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    More than anything, it depends on the weight of the rocket you put it in. But A, B, C Estes rockets can weigh anywhere around 50 to 100 grams, and that’s a 100% factor.

    To compare apples to apples, see the NAR records chart where rockets have been optimized.

    To compare oranges to oranges, look up a specific rocket and its own specs.
     
  9. Nov 24, 2019 #9

    Alan15578

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    That's a good start. Back in the day, before Open Rocket etc., when HPR was young, some people produced "waiver tables", or some such thing, so that RSOs could easily check if a rocket and motor would stay below the fields waiver altitude. I never flew HPR and I don't have these tables, but they could be hunted down.
     
  10. Nov 24, 2019 #10

    heada

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    Doesn't TRA keep altitude records per motor class? Are those publicly available or to members only?
     
  11. Nov 24, 2019 #11

    timbucktoo

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  12. Nov 24, 2019 #12

    Voyager1

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    Our group had a “C Challenge” some time ago. This was based around a scratch built minimum diameter model with a C6-5 BP motor. It had to carry an Alt 1 or 2 to record the apogee. Two of these models exceeded 1700’ and 1900’. Not bad for a C motor! Both these models achieved close to the simmed altitudes.

    Mine achieved the 1900’ apogee because I stripped the Alt 1 from its case so it could just fit in the nosecone and further reduce the mass.
     
  13. Nov 26, 2019 #13

    Yukon@K-9 Rocket Tech

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    Easiest way to achieve the highest altitude possible with a a rocket motor is to epoxy some fins and a nose cone right onto the motor. Boom, nothing will go higher than that with that motor.
     
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  14. Nov 26, 2019 #14

    Kelly

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    I suspect that is not true... both drag and weight play a factor. The rocket you described would have minimal weight, and thus drag would be a major factor limiting altitude. The least draggy rocket might not be one with fins and NC glued to the motor, and added weight can sometimes increase altitude. I could run some sims to prove this, but I'll leave that as an exercise.
     
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  15. Nov 26, 2019 #15

    Yukon@K-9 Rocket Tech

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    Lol good point, I was just joking about sticking fins and a nose cone to a motor, but your right. There's simply too many factors. Also the would CG would be petty back unless you weight the nose cone. I already ran sims for my gimbaled and fin stabilized rockets, and there's just too many factors
     
  16. Nov 27, 2019 #16

    Rob702Martinez

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    Can you tell us about yourself and your experience and what you want to accomplish?
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  17. Nov 27, 2019 #17

    jqavins

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    l may be beating a dead horse, yet I think I have a worthwhile clarification to add.

    Rocket Enthusiast, you did have the sense to emphasize that you're only asking for an approximation. The basic problem is that not only are there other factors, as you said, but that those other factors grossly outweigh the motor choice, making any blanket statement, even an approximate one, impossible.

    A better way to ask what perhaps you're looking for would be this: Given a reasonably "normal" rocket design for 18m and 24 mm BP motors, - weight size, and shape within some sort of typical range - approximately what altitudes can you expect. Even at that, you probably can't do netter that plus or minus 50%. And the information is available on the face cards of kits.

    For larger rockets and other motors, as others have said you'll need to run simulations using any of the tools folks have mentioned above.
     
  18. Nov 27, 2019 #18

    OverTheTop

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    Good idea, but check it is valid within the rules of the club you launch with. It would technically be a motor modification and thus excluded at some (most?) club launches, except research events.
     
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  19. Nov 28, 2019 #19

    dhbarr

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    Minimizing drag & minimizing mass == speed
    Minimizing drag & optimizing mass == altitude
     
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  20. Nov 28, 2019 #20

    Yukon@K-9 Rocket Tech

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    I don't think it's a good Idea at all, I was just joking. I think it will be super unsafe lol
     
  21. Nov 28, 2019 #21

    OverTheTop

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    Probably not, if the structure added doesn't weaken the casing. It does become research though, and remember you don't need insurance till you need it. Then you really need it. Play within the rules in case something does go wrong.
     
  22. Nov 28, 2019 #22

    Igotnothing

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    Looks like you could get 11600' with an I-430 in a 3FNC config. There might be some challenges to do that and recover the device.
     
  23. Nov 29, 2019 #23

    Kelly

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    Though, we actually did that with Estes motors when I was a kid. Cardboard fins and a paper NC glued to the motor, and sometimes (cough) a payload in the NC which would probably be frowned upon by the safety guidelines. A fun, single-use rocket.
     

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