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What to build for the H410?

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Neutron95

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A few days ago, I impulse bought three H410 Vmax motors. Since these motors are out of production, and I won't be able to get any more, I want to do something special with them. One of them is going to fly in the most optimized minimum diameter rocket that I can build, but that leaves two more that I can fly.

I want to try to build a few unique rockets that can take advantage of the motors. I've kicked a few ideas around, but I'd love to see if anyone here has a better idea than me. So far, I've thought of doing a scale model of the Sprint missile, maybe with a tube launcher. My other idea is to build a very large, very lightweight rocket to get a fast boost, but a very low apogee, kind of like the full scale V2 that flew on an O25,000.

I would love to hear your ideas on rocket designs that would make the most out of these motors.
 

Rocketjunkie

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I have a LOC Ultimate. 7 29 mm mounts. 3 H410's gave it a wild ride. Then fuses started from the H410's lit 4 Estes F15's about 2 seconds after liftoff. I wired the 3 ematches in parallel for the H410's. Sorry, no video. Didn't even try, too fast off the pad :)
 

Neutron95

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I have a LOC Ultimate. 7 29 mm mounts. 3 H410's gave it a wild ride. Then fuses started from the H410's lit 4 Estes F15's about 2 seconds after liftoff. I wired the 3 ematches in parallel for the H410's. Sorry, no video. Didn't even try, too fast off the pad :)
That sounds like fun. I'll have to see if there are any left in stock when I get my next paycheck. I am planning on getting a cheap action camera that can shoot at 240 fps for some close in video from the launch pad.
 

ThirstyBarbarian

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I call these kinds of motors “monkey loft” motors, because I use high-thrust, short-burn, low-impulse motors when I do a monkey loft. It’s the third category of flight you mentioned, with a big rocket that doesn’t go very high — classic low and slow. I use motors like the H295 or H399 to pop my Warlock up around 500-700 feet and eject a monkey paratrooper. I like the flights to be low so you can actually see the monkey. These kinds of motors have enough thrust to get the rocket flying safely, but the total impulse is low, so the large rocket doesn’t go very high. I think the H410 has lower total impulse than the motors I mentioned, so you probably want something lighter or skinnier than a Warlock. And Vmax motors should be used with electronic deployment due to sometimes snuffing the delay grain.
 

MikeyDSlagle

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I think it is required to use electronics with Vmax. It was at one time, dont think it changed.
 

T34zac

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I think it is required to use electronics with Vmax. It was at one time, dont think it changed.
You’d be correct. No change in that rule for NAR or TRA. Warp 9 from Aerotech requires it too since it comes plugged anyway.
 

Neutron95

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I'm well aware of the need for electronic deployment with these motors.

Earlier today, I discovered the foam rockets that @burkefj builds. I'm thinking that it might be possible to build something that's ~12" in diameter that can get off the pad relatively fast, but not get going too fast. It would have to be pretty short to fit in my car, so maybe an upscaled Madcow Squat could work. Some versions of the Aeries sounding rocket are also pretty fat, and theres some neat stuff going on with a tail skirt.

One other option I'm considering is to add electronics to my dad's old 5.5" Polecat Nike Smoke. It's a surprisingly light rocket, and I've already thought about flying it on a H399.
 

ThirstyBarbarian

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I think it is required to use electronics with Vmax. It was at one time, dont think it changed.
You’d be correct. No change in that rule for NAR or TRA. Warp 9 from Aerotech requires it too since it comes plugged anyway.
I wanted to bring it up but couldn't remember if it was required or just highly recommended. Hence the "should". But I think it is actually required.
 

ThirstyBarbarian

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I'm well aware of the need for electronic deployment with these motors.

Earlier today, I discovered the foam rockets that @burkefj builds. I'm thinking that it might be possible to build something that's ~12" in diameter that can get off the pad relatively fast, but not get going too fast. It would have to be pretty short to fit in my car, so maybe an upscaled Madcow Squat could work. Some versions of the Aeries sounding rocket are also pretty fat, and theres some neat stuff going on with a tail skirt.

One other option I'm considering is to add electronics to my dad's old 5.5" Polecat Nike Smoke. It's a surprisingly light rocket, and I've already thought about flying it on a H399.
I think the foam rockets that @burkefj builds are not the best candidates for this kind of fast burning, high thrust motor. For one thing, I think @burkefj 's rocket's might be kind of fragile for super thrust, but hopefully he will chime in and say what he thinks. The real glory of those kinds of super lightweight rockets is to fly them on long-burning motors that have a good initial thrust spike to get them moving safely, and then a long low-thrust sustainer phase in the thrust curve to keep them moving. I have a foam rocket that is not built with the same techniques as his, but it's still really lightweight and very fat, so it has a lot of drag. Before I glassed it, it was great on G54 and H54 long-burn motors -- slow and majestic flights that just keep chugging along. After I glassed it, it was still really light, but too heavy for those motors, and now it is great on I125s. After these really light kinds of rockets reach burnout, they come to a dead stop in about 4 seconds, sometimes less. So if the motor burns for half a second, it's almost weird to watch it come to a stop so fast. I highly recommend you do build a lightweight high-drag rocket, but not for this kind of fast burn motor.

If you want a low and slow flight with an H410, you will probably want a more conventional rocket just to have a bit more momentum to carry it. Maybe around 5 pounds and maybe 4 inches to 5.5 in diameter? You'd have to sim it, but I'd guess that would be around a 500 foot coasting flight.
 

ThirstyBarbarian

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Another great application for high-thrust, short burn motors is boost motor for an airstart rocket. Kick hard off the pad and then light the airstarts while it is coasting. it's really cool when the airstarts kick in low enough to see them light up.
 

Neutron95

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Another great application for high-thrust, short burn motors is boost motor for an airstart rocket. Kick hard off the pad and then light the airstarts while it is coasting. it's really cool when the airstarts kick in low enough to see them light up.
That could be fun. It wouldn't be that hard stop make a quad 29mm mount for my 3" tubefin. I could launch on a pair of H410s, then airstart a pair of H13s.
 

burkefj

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That might be a bit hard on a foam structure, although I have flown my 8" and 10" Titan II and Atlas foam missiles on I-205's a lot, they handle that ok, fly to around 700-1100' With short span fins they might hold up ok. They have a lot of compression strength, it's just you don't have normal fin attachment mechanisms like you do to a cardboard or fiberglass tube.

Frank
 

Neutron95

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That might be a bit hard on a foam structure, although I have flown my 8" and 10" Titan II and Atlas foam missiles on I-205's a lot, they handle that ok, fly to around 700-1100' With short span fins they might hold up ok. They have a lot of compression strength, it's just you don't have normal fin attachment mechanisms like you do to a cardboard or fiberglass tube.

Frank
I was thinking of doing something slightly larger in diameter, so that I could try to keep the acceleration down. I'm just throwing ideas at the wall and seeing what strikes my fancy at this point.
 
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