What significance is Customer Service to you?

[SS/EA 6BBL 71 Cuda]

I've had real good luck in this hobby buying many well thought out products and dealing with some excellent people too! The reason i bring this up is that today i removed a comment from another gentlemans post that i sorta barged in on....
I have to sometimes "check" myself here and realize this isn't along the lines of some of the "other" forums i routinely frequent. Namely my favorite Drag Racing forum Y*llowbullet.....
You might say, things get very rough there....and, sometimes people go nose to nose on and off the track.....
Anyhow, alot of people locally know this story and, i'll clean it up for you too decide what it means....if anything to you.

Sometime back, a slightly experienced rocketeer decided to prove a point....That you could fly a minimum dia. rocket on an N5800 C-Star WITHOUT destroying it.. The parts were assembled over a two month period (I only get one day off a week....call it Sunday) The motor was glued up, reservations made, approval by Tripoli board and hosting club to fly this at their event and, at the end of another 80hr. work week i came home.....loaded everything up and headed 12 hours down the road......

Now here's where the issues began....i purchased the "Best" electronics available, or so i thought.....this wasn't going to be another simple up and down.
Up until recently that motor hadn't been tamed. I had one trial run on the new boards locally with great results, i read the directions, i had plenty of people around me in case there was an issue.

During setup at the field the backup altimeter was powered up and instantly smoked the microprocessor.....NOW if you know anything about me or not....i'm VERY meticulous and attention to detail is VERY important to me....Sorry its my German blood.

Well, the manufacturer was there on site and, did take about five minutes to inspect the damage.....

The response i recieved........:eyeroll: "I'm sorry....i'm putting a rocket up to 40k today and, won't have the time to correct this issue."

With that being said, all that i worked for meant nothing to someone who i kindly approached with an issue and, asked for some help......

The rocket was disassmembled and loaded back in the pickup.....I had to be back at work in 24 hours and, you don't want an angry/tired truck driver anywhere near you on the highway.....

"It is very hard for me to see someone promote a product at the level i see, tell people it works better than the rest, ignore myself and ALSO a few others i've talked to and.....and....give away free product to customers who's names ring out on this forum and, across the world of rocketry when they do something spectacular at a big name event."

I realize NOTHING created by the hands of a man will ever truly be perfect but, with effort and hard work all situations can be righted......

In my line of work my customers have many different choices to chose from if i can't produce the services they demand....i stand by anything i fabricate or do away from work.

I had to get this off my chest.....Right now i have another gentleman tweaking his product to my requests to go where i want to take it....Congratulations Bob Brown for being the first....I'll be back to Argonia when i'm ready to "Kiss the Sky". Its been almost a year now.....i'm almost ready.

Thank-you.....

 

[tightwad]

Since the manufactor was on site, how hard would have been to loan you another altimeter and repair yours after the event? At least you could have flown. UGH! Far as I am concerned he just lost my business.

 

[Pem Tech]

Keep the customer happy, even if you loose a little money on the short run....
In the long run it pays off..

 

[H_Rocket]

I can almost bet I know who the vendor in question was. I received a similar response concerning assistance with one of their products at a large launch.

 

[atxcple]

Keep the customer happy, even if you loose a little money on the short run....
In the long run it pays off..

+1 to what Layne said...

the customers in this niche are too important to not help when we can.. it will pay forward later when they sit around after the launch sharing stories....

 

[rfjustin]

Keep the customer happy, even if you loose a little money on the short run....
In the long run it pays off..

Bingo! That's best a customer can hope for.



Justin

 

[paul.nortness]

Yeah, customer service goes a long way in my book. It is the prime reason I don't do business with Comcast any longer and the biggest reason why Estes can count on my business for life.

 

[cavecentral]

Without further info, it is hard to say much. Based on one side of the story, swapping it is the best solution.

The bad part about being a vendor is your hobby is now you job. Most major vendors do not have time to fly anything. If they do, it is probably from using resellers to handle all that stuff.

 

[FastCargo]

I am willing to pay more for good customer service.

Or to be specific, I support those companies who provide it with repeat business and 'spreading the word', even if items cost more than I could get or build them myself.

FC

 

[SS/EA 6BBL 71 Cuda]

Without further info, it is hard to say much. Based on one side of the story, swapping it is the best solution.

The bad part about being a vendor is your hobby is now you job. Most major vendors do not have time to fly anything. If they do, it is probably from using resellers to handle all that stuff.

A very valid point sir.......
There were two things i learned from the whole situtation.
1. Test, test, test and know your new component(s) better before using it in a circumstance that is above and beyond what you've ever done before.
2. To all the people i selfishly put off to the side as i built and re-engineered the wheel here in my book.....I am deeply sorry that the selfish goal i had took time away from them and, i promised to never put rocketry above and beyond their love for me....namely my better half(she's a keeper.)

I did have more than enough money on hand to rent, borrow, or purchase another of the same device but, chose not to do so and, cut my loss after meeting the source....

About fours after said encounter as i was leaving.....the manufacturer finally did launch that rocket.....it was a small two-stager...It failed to light the sustainer...
I could'nt help think as we pulled off the grounds....I hope your remaining customers are happy with your little demonstration.

 

[cavecentral]

Spares and Backup plans are things I've learned. Tough on the big expensive projects. Just make sure to bring some little stuff so that you have something to keep yourself entertained.

 

[troj]

Sorry to hear of the difficulties.

I'll confess, I'm torn on this one. On one hand, I view it as "take care of the customer," but on the other hand I have to ask whether the vendor was at that particular launch as a vendor, or a flier? If the former, your problem should've taken priority. If the latter, then I can understand them saying "I'm sorry, I'm here as a flier today."

-Kevin

 

[JPVegh]

Sorry to hear of the difficulties.

I'll confess, I'm torn on this one. On one hand, I view it as "take care of the customer," but on the other hand I have to ask whether the vendor was at that particular launch as a vendor, or a flier? If the former, your problem should've taken priority. If the latter, then I can understand them saying "I'm sorry, I'm here as a flier today."

-Kevin

Absolutely, everyone deserves a day off. On the other hand the OPs project sounds as if it was substantial and capable of being widely reported among the community. One would think that kind of free advertising would be valuable to a small business and that the decision to "leave him hanging" wasn't the smartest thing to do business wise. A small businessman often has to put his personal life on the back burner in order to succeed, if however the business is more of a hobby than a serious business, well then this is what you get. Apparently this vendor has decided on where his priorities lay.

 

[fyrwrxz]

I am willing to pay more for good customer service.

Or to be specific, I support those companies who provide it with repeat business and 'spreading the word', even if items cost more than I could get or build them myself.

FC

I'm with FC-I'd rather give my money to somebody who says: "Hi, Dave! What's going on today? What can i get for you?" rather than "Next!" This backfires every once in a while (like all the guys and girls in the hardware store know you by first name-my wife thinks that is totally wrong!) and I do wind up paying more than sourcing/building it myself. Having said that and even without the back story, the way 'Cuda was treated is totally wrong. Doesn't this chap realize you spend 100% of your advertising budget for new customers and one unhappy camper eliminates five potential ones? Yeah, we get one side of the coin and don't know 'his' back story which could be very similar and yes, the range can be stressful and you do need to 'have your head in the game'. I have not flown sometimes just because of that reason, but-what would it hurt to even acknowledge a fellow flier's problem? When does it become inconveinient to promote your product to someone about to demonstrate it and possibly bring more sales? If anybody has a problem with product I make-I'll bust my ass to make it right if only as a point of honour-some times things slip thru QC and make it to the real world but the response should NEVER be "sorry. I'm busy". They can be busy WITHOUT my money!

 

[Fred22]

I have been in retail for a lot of years. I get a lot of repeat customers because my customers come first. If the situation is as you describe then taking a few moments and addressing your problem would have produced an endorsement not a complaint.
Cheers
Fred

 

[powderburner]

Troj posted:

I can understand them saying "I'm sorry, I'm here as a flier today."

Well, sorry, I can't understand. In a hobby as small as ours, a vendor is in the center ring at all times, especially at a launch where someone is asking for help with one of his own products.



JPVegh posted:

A small businessman often has to put his personal life on the back burner in order to succeed,

If you are a vendor and attending a launch, would this really be a surprise? I get why SS/EA is a little ticked about this behavior.

 

[troj]

Well, sorry, I can't understand. In a hobby as small as ours, a vendor is in the center ring at all times, especially at a launch where someone is asking for help with one of his own products.

To me, if the vendor doesn't set up a booth, brings their own stuff, isn't selling at that event, etc, then they're there as a flier.

If you are a vendor and attending a launch, would this really be a surprise? I get why SS/EA is a little ticked about this behavior.

By this logic, since my doctor lives right across the street from me, when I need medical care, rather than scheduling an appointment, I should be able to walk over and knock on his door. I should also have the cell phone number of every manufacturer, in case I'm having problems with one of their products while I'm at a launch, and I need to ask them for guidance.

-Kevin

 

[SS/EA 6BBL 71 Cuda]

Kevin....the person in question did have a tent set up too vend. I've read all the responses so far and, i truly do appreciate your comments everyone.....i also want all of you to know that normally i'm not a "Grumpy Gus". Just soul cleansing........
My bringing Bob Browns name in.....was again to congratulate him on his incredible flight this year with his Mongoose 98 on the same motor!
Getting to finally meet him and, several others really took the edge off the happenings on Monday morning...the fact that i was able to talk to Bob off too the side twice about carbon rocket construction was priceless...No secrets here, just ideas and different ways to get to the same goal.......
That's what makes rocketry worthwhile to me.....
The Kloudbusters are a class act group.
After the event, i donated the rocket and a spare to a very deserving young man that i've been trading ideas with for the last few years......It's ok, i have alot of carbon tube sitting around here, just need to "lay a keel."
I've already established contact with another vendor to Beta test some of his "reinforced/improved" altimeters at Airfest this year.....Something i'll need in the future but, can use shortly as i make plans too return to Kansas.
I'll bring my old trusty 4" with 3" hole mule out.....put a CTI M2245 in the booster and, a CTI M840 in the sustainer.......yup...a two stagger!
That is, if Bob will let me back on the property.:wink:

 

[troj]

Kevin....the person in question did have a tent set up too vend. I've read all the responses so far and, i truly do appreciate your comments everyone.....i also want all of you to know that normally i'm not a "Grumpy Gus". Just soul cleansing........

If he was there as a vendor, that changes it a bit.

My bringing Bob Browns name in.....was again to congratulate him on his incredible flight this year with his Mongoose 98 on the same motor!

I really wanted to see that flight. Unfortunately, I couldn't make it there.

The Kloudbusters are a class act group.

Indeed, they are.

That is, if Bob will let me back on the property.:wink:

Hey, it's just Bob. He's harmless, right? :wink:

-Kevin

 

[mikec]

During setup at the field the backup altimeter was powered up and instantly smoked the microprocessor...

Do you know if this was a failure of the electronics or a wiring error on your part? If it was your error, while some vendors might have replaced the item anyway, I can understand why some wouldn't.

If the unit just failed (and you imply that was the situation) then the vendor not taking care of it is pretty unimpressive.

 

[luke strawwalker]

Troj posted:

I can understand them saying "I'm sorry, I'm here as a flier today."

Well, sorry, I can't understand. In a hobby as small as ours, a vendor is in the center ring at all times, especially at a launch where someone is asking for help with one of his own products.



JPVegh posted:

A small businessman often has to put his personal life on the back burner in order to succeed,

If you are a vendor and attending a launch, would this really be a surprise? I get why SS/EA is a little ticked about this behavior.

Yeah, I agree with this...

I've run into something similar with a vendor I won't name... had a problem with his product, corresponded by email on the problem, and got some rather "smart-ass" remarks in return, like "that's why you should have bought a Mac" and other such comments that did NOTHING to ameliorate or rectify the situation... I guess I should have retorted in an equally smartass tone "well, maybe you shouldn't offer your product for Windows if it can't support the platform"... but I didn't. It isn't the first or last time I've heard of this sort of thing, either, and from a vendor that supposedly desires to be known for superior customer service (yet doesn't seem to value a customer unless they're a high-frequency repeat customer).

I've seen this sort of thing before, firsthand, at local businesses. Several of them in this one-stoplight town would act like you peed in their mama's cheerios that morning when you came in to buy something, like they were doing YOU a favor by waiting on you and taking your money... unless of course you were one of the "good old boys", their drinking buddy, or went to their particular church... (or all three). They'd laugh and giggle and trip over themselves to wait on THEM like a $2 hooker looking for her next trick... Sorry but I don't do business that way... If that's how a vendor wants to act, fine-- it's their 'business' and they can run it anyway they see fit... BUT, it's MY MONEY and I'M free to spend it anywhere *I* see fit... my money is JUST AS GREEN as anyone else's and if you want to be a jerk like that, fine, I'll take my money right on down the road to someone who WANTS a customer and will treat them decently and professionally. As for the local jerks-- they can go broke...

They're usually the same ones that are the biggest whiners about people not buying locally, too... "people should support their local businesses!" they whine while they act like a jackass... Sorry, no... treat me like that you can go twist in the wind...

That's the main reason I didn't bother spending more money with this particular rocketry vendor to upgrade my product to a newer model when it came out awhile back...

Later! OL JR

 

[BLKKROW]

I agree with a lot that has been said on this thread, even if the unnamed merchant took 5 minutes to look at the product and give you some reassurance that something could be done if not then at least after the launch. That would be at least something.

I also had a recent problem with a major rocketry vendor, after multiple attempts to reach out to the vendor. Who multiple times said "It was my fault/error", all they could do for me is give me 10% of my next order with major restrictions.

The thing that bothered me was it took me some effort to get that resolution out even that it was well under what my reimbursement should have been.

 

[stickershock23]

Wow this is a tough call.

I being n the other end see a little of both sides... BUT mostly one.

CUSTOMER SERVICE.. Period either you have it or you dont. if you do it does not matter what you are selling.. (Good or bad) bad service... you loose customers. Period
Good service.. I dont care if you are selling left handed electric behind scratchers.. your customers will come back to you.. (although you may go out of business because who wants a left handed behind scratcher..)

I have attended MANY launches as Stickershock and as an employee or another "vendor" and Yes it is frusterating when you are trying to relax and fly, and you have to stop to take care of a customer..

But if I dont.. I wont have any more customers.. and thats bad.. PERIOD.

Now, what I sell. I dont see a "I cant fly this if you dont fix my decal" but I do get a lot of people come to me and say "Hey can you give me hand installing this decals" and guess what.. I dont care who it is I always stop and do it.. and you know what.. I dont recall EVER having someone complain about my service.. and I hope no one HAS a complaint about my service and never told me..

This sunday I did have a kid come to me and ask if I had decals for his rocket.. I felt bad telling him "Nope I dont have ANY decals here" Unfortunately I have found dirt nad decals dont really mix.. and if you have been on our lakebed you know what I mean..

I told the kid to check out my website and I'd hook him up any time when I am in the shop.. but I still felt helpless that I could not give hm what he wanted..

Later I heard from Jack G that he he had sent the guy to me... then when he saw him later the guys told jack "Nope hes not selling decals..." Man I felt so bad..

If you are that kid and you are reading this.. Contact me bro you got a freebie coming your way!!! just tell me what rocket you told me it was for and you are good to go!

Anyways.. back to the point.

One bad thing can really spread fast. and it can cause you to loose more than just the one person you did not take care of.. I hate to say this.. but if you are a vendor in this hobby.. your chance to fly and do NOTHING else... If you want to stay in business... that is over for you.. sorry!

Gustav.. Sorry you had a crappy experience.. And thanks for telling us about it, I hate to bash anyone here but maybe this (not really a bash... just you venting) will ring that vendors bell, and next time he will think twice and do "The right thing"

Best of luck!

 

[JPVegh]

Can you tell me where I can get one them left handed electric behind scratchers... I have need of one.

 

[JAL3]

One bad thing can really spread fast. and it can cause you to loose more than just the one person you did not take care of.. I hate to say this.. but if you are a vendor in this hobby.. your chance to fly and do NOTHING else... If you want to stay in business... that is over for you.. sorry!

That seems to be sad but true. People who elect to try and make a living (or part of a living) from a hobby (that hopefully is loved) are giving a big part of the hobby up. It becomes a business and, to thrive, must be treated as a business.

There are many vendors here on TRF who go above and beyond the call of duty. I have had very little experience with vendors here on TRF who have bad customer service. Partly this is because so many are good. Partly is it because the ones who gave bad service are out of business or don't want to show up here any more.

It speaks ill of my skills but well of a vendor that there is one who frequents TRF who has great customer service but whom I would hesitate to post a build thread for his products any more. This is not because of his superb products or his excellent customer service. It is because I KNOW I will mess something on the build up. I usually try to point out my failures so that other people can avoid them. I know from experience that even after I assume the blame, this vendor will still try to bail me out and send me replacement part, refusing to accept payment. It has gotten downright embarrassing! His attitude seems to be that I should be having fun and enjoying myself. I appreciate that. I really do. I also feel bad when I know that I am the one who messed up through no fault of the manufacturer.

Thanks Wes!

 

[SS/EA 6BBL 71 Cuda]

Do you know if this was a failure of the electronics or a wiring error on your part? If it was your error, while some vendors might have replaced the item anyway, I can understand why some wouldn't.

If the unit just failed (and you imply that was the situation) then the vendor not taking care of it is pretty unimpressive.

Mike, The wiring error idea did cross my mind immediately after the failure and, i went back and, verified that it was correct......polarity, no touching of bare wire to other contacts...etc. It still perplexes me to this day. To make sure that i wasn't wired wrong i brought four friends into the situation and, had them all look at the device....the general consensus was...."Its right as rain!"
I may not be the brightest bulb on the chandelier of life ( I know right now several members of the Chicago Rocket Mafia and, the Indiana Rocketry group are chuckling about "El Presidante" saying that. ) but, when the one with the Phd. in electrical engineering said that, at least i knew.....i was probably in the clear.
The power source was a fresh 9 volt battery....tested for volts and found good so, i'll also rule out "overjuicing" it.

Also, i should clear up that i talked to Bob Brown via email yesterday and, he mentioned that the "First to successfully fly an N5800 C-star in a minimum dia." was still up for grabs.....
Someone (Manny) told me (Manny) that Bob (MANNY!) had done that....
I couldn't figure out why Dr. J was sponsoring a contest for something that had been accomplished until Bob mentioned he flew his on an EX "N" motor...Always excellent service and help from Dr. J!

So i have been preparing to do something else (Manny)......like fly that two stagger (MANNY!) and, help "Squirt" (Manny) get his L3.... instead......."Because someone in the crowd may need some schooling."

I went into the personal office at work this morning on my way out the door and pulled some serious strings to try and, get the weekend of Distant Thunder 2012 off to maybe accomplish that personal goal of mine. If that objective hasn't been done by that weekend, i sure will give it a try.......that's all you can do.

 

[mannyskid]

Also, i should clear up that i talked to Bob Brown via email yesterday and, he mentioned that the "First to successfully fly an N5800 C-star in a minimum dia." was still up for grabs.....
Someone (Manny) told me (Manny) that Bob (MANNY!) had done that....
I couldn't figure out why Dr. J was sponsoring a contest for something that had been accomplished until Bob mentioned he flew his on an EX "N" motor...Always excellent service and help from Dr. J!

Sorry Gus, I read it on the internet, I always belive what I read on the internet! :tongue:

So i have been preparing to do something else (Manny)......like fly that two stagger (MANNY!) and, help "Squirt" (Manny) get his L3.... instead......."Because someone in the crowd may need some schooling."

And I appreciate that Gus. I couldn't have gotton this far without your help. So, Distant Thunder.....the week after we're going to have our Ns fest at MWP, okay, I'm down to go. I'll call you later tonight Gus and we can work on the details.........

Manny

 

[boomtube]

I only returned to rocketry three years ago and so far I haven’t had any truly rotten encounters/dealings with any of the vendors or manufactures I have dealt with.

I have however been a model railroader for going on thirty years and the number of venders and manufactures I have dealt with beggars the imagination.

Without exception the customer service I have received from those folks has been great, in many cases it went “Above and Beyond”, dang I liked that show. When your customer base is as small as these companies are, whether model rocketry or railroading, you cannot afford to alienate even one.

On the other hand I used to work part time at a high-end bicycle shop and some of the customers I/we had to deal with would try the patients of a Saint. Or even a Patriot or a Packers.

On the gripping hand; drowning those types in the degreasing tank only gets you talked about and does nothing for the shops bottom line.

 

[cavecentral]

Can you tell me where I can get one them left handed electric behind scratchers... I have need of one.

Me too, I'm tired of having smelly fingers.

 

[dr wogz]

They (the US version) seem to be on back order.. 220VAC, 3.5A @ 50hz models only.. You supply the fused plug