What kits should Estes bring back?

Discussion in 'Low Power Rocketry (LPR)' started by LostMosquito, Sep 22, 2018.

Help Support The Rocketry Forum by donating:

  1. Jan 30, 2019 #211

    jlabrasca

    jlabrasca

    jlabrasca

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    Messages:
    904
    Likes Received:
    210
    BMS makes a nosecone sized for a T12 tube protector (I think. Its part number BMSFLMS). with a shoulder diameter of 1.65" -- which is pretty close to BT60. Its a 1.58:1 aspect ratio, though. The X-ray cone was NC20A -- with a 4:1 aspect.

    Estes, eRockets and Apogee all sell clear airframe. I don't know if estes BT60 clear payload tube is long enough for a BT55/BT60 X-ray, but Apogee sells it in in 18" sections. I got the BT80 payload for my upscaled Scrambler from Apogee, I think. IIRC the clear BT55 and the BNC55A cone for the upscaled X-ray came from eRockets.
     
  2. Feb 1, 2019 #212

    DeWain

    DeWain

    DeWain

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    394
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'd like to see some of the classic kits that are hard to clone and are not available through Semroc. A big vote for the 1/35th scale Mercury Atlas and the 1/100th scale Saturn 1B (Century). A couple of kits that I always wanted to have were the Century Skylab (no resemblance to the real Skylab) and the Estes Starlab.
     
  3. Feb 1, 2019 #213

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,250
    Likes Received:
    264
    Bring back the Maxi-Brute's . . . V-2, Pershing-1A, and the Honest John . . . With 29mm motor mounts !
     
    BDB likes this.
  4. Feb 1, 2019 #214

    DeWain

    DeWain

    DeWain

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Messages:
    394
    Likes Received:
    0
    Agreed. I love the Maxi Brutes, but they were seriously under-powered on 24mm black powder motors. They either need a 24mm composite or a 29mm motor mount. The V2 and the Honest John have been re-released in the past, but the Pershing 1A was never re-released (that I know of).

    BTW, I must either have been really tired when I wrote the post last night, or I was the victim of auto-incorrect. The Saturn 1B and Skylab kits that I referred to were old Centuri kits, not Century. Kits with injection molded plastic or vacuum formed parts are way too difficult for most rocketeers to clone (unless you have lots of time on your hands to draw up a model for a 3D printer). Of course, it may not be cost effective for Estes to invest in the tooling to make the parts for the Centuri Skylab (there may not be that many classic rocketeers who want one out there, and its odd design may not appeal to today's kids), but the same parts could be re-purposed on other sci-fi designs (as Estes has done in the past).
     
  5. Feb 1, 2019 #215

    DRAGON64

    DRAGON64

    DRAGON64

    Forum Supporter TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    4,002
    Likes Received:
    74
    Location:
    Toney, AL
    I wish the link to Rocketry Planet was still available where the owner, Darrell Mobley, built the Honest John with a 54mm motor mount. He flew it on the "soda can" 54mm from Aerotech. About half way down the page on this link there is video of Darrell's Honest John flying on an I170 and a J240...

    http://www.nefar.net/gallery/2008-11/index.html

    The I170 video wasn't very good, but that J240 was SWEET!
     
  6. Feb 1, 2019 #216

    GlenP

    GlenP

    GlenP

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2014
    Messages:
    1,428
    Likes Received:
    91
    DeWain likes this.
  7. Feb 1, 2019 #217

    Scott_650

    Scott_650

    Scott_650

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    25
    I don’t think that the Space Station Aquarius has any special parts - everything looks to be standard stuff: nose cone, plastic transition, body tubes, and centering rings - so it would make a great, somewhat simpler to build, follow up to the Explorer Aquarius.

    Another sci-fi, pseudo scale kit that where the decals make it special.
     
  8. Feb 2, 2019 #218

    RFMan

    RFMan

    RFMan

    Forum Supporter TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    May 28, 2014
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    6
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cary, NC
    I had an Estes Honest John. I never flew it on D engines, only on FSI F-100...which were GREAT...until a cato (due to excessive heat in the dorm over a holiday) took it out :( Basically destroyed the entire lower portion of the rocket, and I never bothered to try to repair that pile of debris.
     
  9. Feb 2, 2019 #219

    cwbullet

    cwbullet

    cwbullet

    Obsessed with Rocketry Staff Member Administrator TRF Lifetime Supporter Global Mod

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Messages:
    20,962
    Likes Received:
    903
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Glennville, GA
  10. Feb 2, 2019 #220

    neil_w

    neil_w

    neil_w

    Fiddly bits enthusiast TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Messages:
    5,141
    Likes Received:
    446
    Location:
    Northern NJ
    I dunno, it's hard to draw conclusions from that. Estes looks to pretty large (for rocketry, anyway) quantities of each kit; the fact that some small number of motivated collectors are willing to pay stupid money for OOP kits doesn't really say if the market is Estes-large or not.

    Anecdotally, I agree that it *seems* like there's demand.
     
    Nytrunner likes this.
  11. Feb 2, 2019 #221

    Scott_650

    Scott_650

    Scott_650

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    25
    A Maxi HoJo would make a great PSII kit on 29mm BP motors! This is another one that probably would come down to the nose cone - if Estes still has the molds or not would be the determining factor.
     
  12. Feb 2, 2019 #222

    cwbullet

    cwbullet

    cwbullet

    Obsessed with Rocketry Staff Member Administrator TRF Lifetime Supporter Global Mod

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Messages:
    20,962
    Likes Received:
    903
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Glennville, GA
    Yes, but the number is getting larger. Folks buy these things and build them. I think a Maxi Honest John, V2, and Pershing would sell very well. Heck, I would buy the X-wing too.
     
    RFMan likes this.
  13. Feb 4, 2019 #223

    RFMan

    RFMan

    RFMan

    Forum Supporter TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    May 28, 2014
    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    6
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cary, NC
    Yes, so would I. I never got the Maxi X-wing, and I always regretted that.
     
  14. Feb 4, 2019 #224

    Bungie64

    Bungie64

    Bungie64

    Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2017
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    3
    The Maxi-Brutes were Maxi under powered. I love them but need bigger motors. I'd say the Interceptor E since the original Interceptor has been rereleased. Maybe bring back a boost glider like the Astro-Blaster. With the advent of drones I think this could do well if the kit could handle a big enough motor and/or have a camera on it.
     
    prfesser likes this.
  15. Feb 5, 2019 #225

    JonathanOtt

    JonathanOtt

    JonathanOtt

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    34
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Fayetteville, NC
    If Estes is still having a problem with their plywood supplier, I'd like to recommend if they won't re-release the Mega der Red Max, how about just making the nose cone available? I think its popular enough to at least do a parts run, if they can't (won't) re release the full kit. I know for fact that the MDRM nose cone fits the LOC 4" tube perfectly.
     
  16. Feb 5, 2019 #226

    BDB

    BDB

    BDB

    Absent Minded Professor

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2015
    Messages:
    1,737
    Likes Received:
    171
    Gender:
    Male
    Do you know about the clone from AMW?
    http://cart.amwprox.com/index.php?o..._id=1175&virtuemart_category_id=60&Itemid=482
     
  17. Feb 5, 2019 #227

    JonathanOtt

    JonathanOtt

    JonathanOtt

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2015
    Messages:
    245
    Likes Received:
    34
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Fayetteville, NC
    Yeah, the only "problem" (and it's not really a "problem") with it is the NC...its not an MDRM profile, it's a standard PNC-3.90" (98MM)...3.9" 3:1 blunted tip cone. The clone has a longer body tube and you paint the top 3" or so of it black to give the illusion of the MDRM nose...this is the cardboard and plywood kit...the FiberMax has the correct profile, with an FG nose, FG body and CF fins...and a higher cost...and (to me) loses that classic look.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2019
  18. Feb 6, 2019 #228

    shreadvector

    shreadvector

    shreadvector

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Messages:
    8,669
    Likes Received:
    38
    Or a 29mm mount. E16 is like 3 C6 motors (OK, slightly less peak thrust, but similar sustaining thrust for a couple of tenths of a second longer) and F15 is an even longer burning version.
     
  19. Feb 6, 2019 #229

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,250
    Likes Received:
    264
    Since ESTES own all of the CENTURI rights, let's bring back the ENERJET models . . . 29 mm mounts !

    I like this photo of Carl . . .

    Dave F.


    Enerjet Reprint Decal.jpg



    N52 MAD with Carl.jpg
     
    DRAGON64 likes this.
  20. Feb 6, 2019 #230

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Ez2cDave

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,250
    Likes Received:
    264
    The X-Ray was a BT-20 lower section, with a BT-50 Nose Cone ( BNC-50K - 3:1 - Same as the Alpha ), TA-2050A Adapter.

    Dave F.


    1218_front1979.jpg 1218_back1979.jpg


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
     
  21. Feb 6, 2019 #231

    Initiator001

    Initiator001

    Initiator001

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,702
    Likes Received:
    10
    I took that picture of Carl at NARAM-52 in Colorado.

    (Accreditation for the picture would be appreciated. I know I posted it on YORF and probably TRF).

    That is an upscale Aero-Dart model (2.6" diameter) with an 29mm motor mount that I built from custom parts made by Carl.

    The model flew great on an AeroTech single-use F20-4W motor.
     
    DRAGON64 likes this.
  22. Feb 6, 2019 #232

    jlabrasca

    jlabrasca

    jlabrasca

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    Messages:
    904
    Likes Received:
    210
    Yes. Trying to find the N/C model number I only read down to the first instance of "X-ray" here

    http://www.rocketshoppe.com/info/Estes_Nose_Cone_Reference_10.1.pdf

    Which seemed authoritative enough that I was willing to ignore the fact that it was a plastic nosecone of the wrong diameter before bloviating about aspect ratios. By the time I realized my error, the edit window had expired. Thanks for making the correction.

    Considering that I've cloned it (twice) and upscaled it, it is an astonishingly lazy mistake to have made. In my defense, I am astonishingly lazy.
     
    neil_w likes this.
  23. Feb 6, 2019 #233

    kuririn

    kuririn

    kuririn

    BARGeezer TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,459
    Likes Received:
    242
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hawaii
    Should've said that you were talking about THIS X-Ray:
    s-l1600.jpg

    Yeah, that's it, yeah.
     
  24. Feb 6, 2019 #234

    prfesser

    prfesser

    prfesser

    Lifetime Supporter TRF Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    May 7, 2017
    Messages:
    434
    Likes Received:
    208
    Location:
    Murray, KY
    I'm curious...since the instructions for a lot of these are on Jimz's site, and most parts are readily available (BMS, eRockets, elsewhere) or not too difficult to make...what's the lure of a kit? I like some of the kits, but like most of you I have a fair stock of airframe tubing, balsa, plywood, etc.

    Best -- Terry
     
  25. Feb 6, 2019 #235

    kuririn

    kuririn

    kuririn

    BARGeezer TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,459
    Likes Received:
    242
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hawaii
    If the kit is OOP, but the plans are available and the parts are all standard, then I'll do a clone (if I like the design). The problem is when some parts are not easily bought or reproduced. Maxi Brutes, for example. The V2 tail cone is problematic. I've cloned one by cutting off the tip of a 4" nose cone. And the Maxi Hojo nose cone is currently unavailable. I cloned one when Madcow had the 2.6" Hojo fiberglass nose cone, but it is currently OOP. As for the Maxi Pershing, that nose cone, until recently, could not be obtained. Thanks to Leo that looks like it will soon change with his 3D printer files. I've been wanting to clone an ALCM cruise missile for the longest time, but the inlet must be custom made. If a specialty nose cone is not available, it must be custom made, either in 3D or hand turned in balsa. That can be expensive. And not everyone has access to or can afford to buy a 3D printer. Not to mention the learning curve. Cheers.
    EDIT: Forgot to mention, some people just like to build kits. Laters.
     
    DeWain likes this.
  26. Feb 6, 2019 #236

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Bruiser

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    46
    Some people like to build but don't want to build a kit before they can build the rocket. Some don't have the capability to build a kit. The other thing about kits is that I believe they normally come with decals. That's why I started my latest build with a Semroc kit but the joke was on me because the decals were minimal...

    -Bob
     
  27. Feb 6, 2019 #237

    scottrc

    scottrc

    scottrc

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Messages:
    235
    Likes Received:
    2
    Estes 1385 Space Shuttle Columbia. I flew the snot out of mine and then lost it when a water pipe broke in my apartment and soaked it. Like a dummy, I didn't keep the nose cone and threw it out. And this looks like a hard part to try to clone.
     
  28. Feb 6, 2019 #238

    Scott_650

    Scott_650

    Scott_650

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    25
    The kits that used unique parts - mostly nose cones - and the kits that used proprietary decals are tough to clone. Plus there are “completist” collectors who want an official kit from the maker in the original packaging.

    But as for rockets using off the shelf parts? Clone ‘em if ya want ‘em!
     
  29. Feb 7, 2019 #239

    jlabrasca

    jlabrasca

    jlabrasca

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    Messages:
    904
    Likes Received:
    210
    Yes. I think that's the one. That's the first X-ray on the Nosecone Cross-refrence list.

    It was careless error.
    Screen Shot 2019-02-06 at 11.48.45 AM.png

    Seriously - I've cloned The K-18 Xray twice and built a BT50 to BT55 upscale.

    #153

    I had a brain-lapse while searching for the nose-cone, to compare its profile to that of the Fluorescent Tube Protector cone that BMS sells.
     
  30. Feb 7, 2019 #240

    kuririn

    kuririn

    kuririn

    BARGeezer TRF Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,459
    Likes Received:
    242
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Hawaii

Share This Page