What kind of Paint??

[leegscott]

All

Probably the oldest question on the forum. What kind of paint???

My son and I are finishing up a new project and we are having trouble deciding what kind of paint to use. It is a 7 1/2" diameter 13 feet tall rocket. It has a 75mm main motor mount with four 38mm motor mounts for multiple air starts. The tubes and fins have been wrapped with fiberglass. We have coated the entire areas with superfill to fill any remaining fiberglass weave and sanded smooth. On past projects we have used the old formula Krylon and recently we have been using automotive paint. Automotive paint gives an excellent finish but it is nasty to work with and it makes simple repairs to the rocket a lot of work.

Any type of paint is an option. We are looking for a little advise??

Attached are a couple of old project pictures:

Using Old Krylon

Using Automotive Paint

Any advise would be appreciated on a paint!!

Thanks

 

[troj]

It looks like you have spray equipment, in which case I'd suggest automotive paint -- more durable, easier to apply, etc. Plus, high solids auto primer really is high solids -- much more than anything that will come out of a spray can.

Another good option to look at is tractor paint from somewhere like Tractor Supply. We've used that successfully on some really big projects, and it works well. It's also very inexpensive -- $20/gallon, but also very durable. It also requires a sprayer.

After that, you get into spray paint. Many folks like Krylon; I call it Kraplon, because I cannot stand the stuff. I have better luck with Rustoleum and Duplicolor. Others get better results with Krylon.

-Kevin

 

[kandsrockets]

I have been using Duplicolor in the rattle cans and also used the ready mixed quart cans that you need a spray gun. I have had great results with both. The ready mix in the quart cans are limited in colors. Both of the photos below are done with duplicolor.

 

[bguffer]

I've been using Duplicolor rattle cans whenever possible. One advantage of Duplicolor over other brands of rattle cans is the following:
https://www.duplicolor.com/products/scratchfix2in1.html

When painting an Apogee Components Saturn V i had some paint come up when peeling off masking tape. Instead of retaping, repainting, and hoping the paint didn't come up again with the tape, i simply brushed on some of the scratch fixer. The scratchfixers are not the exact same color, but hard to tell from a few feet away. Scratchfixers should be available at all AutoZones, Advanced Auto Parts, etc.

Bob

 

[Uncrichie]

I have been using Duplicolor in the rattle cans and also used the ready mixed quart cans that you need a spray gun. I have had great results with both. The ready mix in the quart cans are limited in colors. Both of the photos below are done with duplicolor.

Scott, where do you find the ready mixed quart cans of paint? TIA.

 

[blackjack2564]

Hi Lee!


You can still get the Original Krylon at most Auto supply houses. I just got The Old " five ball" label red. blue and yellow at a NAPA. In the past several months also from Auto Zone. Pep Boys and one everybody forgets about......Motion Industries....the auto equivalent to Mac Carr! Even Mac Carr has it if you want to pay the shipping.

That said, I think you would love the Duplicolor brand also. Colors choices a little restricted but great results and the spray tip is an actual fan pattern you can rotate to use horizontal or vertical. The stuff goes on great and their clears really are HIGH gloss! The easiest to use rattle can I have ever dealt with.

Here's my dirty little secret..

https://www.kpg-industrial.com/products/5ball_interiorexterior_paint/

Check out the store locater. Granted you will pay 5-6 bucks a can and the colors are some what limited from before. But most of the old standards can be found.....yes it's out there if you look!

The distributors want to sell it in 6 can case lots, but I have not had any trouble finding what I needed. Just start hitting anything automotive related, you will come across it. THE politically correct term now is industrial paint. Hope this helps.

Ps How you coming with the R-das project?

 

[kandsrockets]

Scott, where do you find the ready mixed quart cans of paint? TIA.

Advance Auto has them.

 

[Uncrichie]

Thanks Scott.

 

[hardinlw]

I'm using Klass Kote epoxy on my L3 project. I used K&B SuperPoxy on a couple of RC airplanes years ago, buth the K&B formulation did not meet the new EPA regs and it went off the market. Klass Kote appears to be even better than I remember the K&B. I'm spraying it with a Porter-Cable PSH2 gun. The supplied 0.8mm tip was a bit small for the large project, especially with the primer which is high solids, so I ordered the 1.2mm tip. I have not tried that yet.

https://www.klasskote.com/

If you are also into RC, this is what Dave Platt is using.

 

[mkadams001]

Automotive paint gives an excellent finish but it is nasty to work with and it makes simple repairs to the rocket a lot of work.

Looks like you are doing some nice paint jobs.

What exactly do you mean by nasty to work with and the simple repairs being a lot of work?

Generally, auto paint is much easier to repair than other types of paints.

You can get some good results with One Shot lettering enamel from sign supply houses. It will be fairly expensive but you will get a good gloss and durability. Touch up is easy too because the paint flows well when brushing (there are some tricks to this) Spraying enamels can be sticky, you will feel it, much different than automotive type paints. You could also check out yacht enamels.

Personally, I would stick to the auto type paints for larger rockets.

 

[JDcluster]

Isn't Duplicolor & Krylon the same company?
https://www.kpg-industrial.com/products/brands/duplicolor/
Some colors can be found in both brands.



JD

It looks like you have spray equipment, in which case I'd suggest automotive paint -- more durable, easier to apply, etc. Plus, high solids auto primer really is high solids -- much more than anything that will come out of a spray can.

Another good option to look at is tractor paint from somewhere like Tractor Supply. We've used that successfully on some really big projects, and it works well. It's also very inexpensive -- $20/gallon, but also very durable. It also requires a sprayer.

After that, you get into spray paint. Many folks like Krylon; I call it Kraplon, because I cannot stand the stuff. I have better luck with Rustoleum and Duplicolor. Others get better results with Krylon.

-Kevin

 

[Zack Lau]

There are different types of auto paint. The really nasty stuff contains isocyanates--this stuff can kill you. I know someone who bought a beautifully painted airplane--the former owner was killed by the paint! :y:
You can also be permanently disabled by too much exposure--acute ashma attacks can do that. There were actually Sport Rocketry articles that suggested that this paint be used, even though you need a positive pressure suit to use it safely.

But, as some posts here point out, you can also buy enamel or lacquer in cans that is much less hazardous to your health. Not the super wet gloss of the dangerous stuff, but is it really worth risking your life?

 

[leegscott]

Thanks to everyone that responded!! I have been checking on the internet and it looks like I will be able to round up enough of the old Krylon to paint this project!

Yes, the reason that I have decided to try and get away from automotive paint is because it is nasty to work with (toxic) not to mention a lot of set up to use. On the last two projects that I used the paint I got a little bit better with the safety precations with each one. On the last project I built a wood frame paint booth with visqueen and a latching door. It had a negative air machine with vapor and charcole filters on one side of the booth and standard air filters (for dust) on the other side of the booth so that I would get good cross ventilation. I used a full face respirator and protective clothing with glooves. I was able to get a great finish but as I try to decide on paint for this project I have asked myself is it really worth all of the set up time (the booth) and the risk of exposure and health risk. For now the answer is no!

So this project it will be Krylon but in the back of my head I know that I need to find anouther paint for future projects. I have a smaller project on the bench and I am thinking about trying the rustolium premium industrial enamel paint and use my HVLP spray gun. Has anyone tried spraying enamel thru a HVLP gun?

Jim good to here from you. As far as the rdas project this is it. I had to put everything on hold for the summer months while we did the family vacation thing, but that is over now. I will post some pictures soon of the final installation.

Again Thanks to all. I will post some pictures of the finish project so we can compare notes!

 

[blackjack2564]

I have a smaller project on the bench and I am thinking about trying the rustolium premium industrial enamel paint and use my HVLP spray gun. Has anyone tried spraying enamel thru a HVLP gun?

Yes I have. With stunning results. You cannot tell the difference. You can use auto paint in them also. Since there is very little over spray and misting, the mess and hazards are greatly reduced.
The only real concern is make sure you have the correct needle/nozzle combination for enamels or material you are using. Most HVLP's come with a standard wide range set up and you have to purchase the enamel set up separately.

It will be a smaller orifice and needle to accommodate the finer size mist/spray needed to get a good finish. With the right set up you can spray equally as good as the air setup if not better.

You also get 90-95 % transfer rate of paint, meaning almost zero overspray and fumes. Many body shops use HVLP setups now for the above reasons.

You can also buy just the gun that will hook up to an air compressor that has an adjustable reducer valve built in to take the pressure from your pump down to the needed 6-7lbs of air.

Seeing as I am not familiar with what gun setup you are using, but you seem to have above average knowledge in painting, I think you will do just fine. As usual the big trick to getting it right is the paint thinned to the proper consistency and the air/paint ratio.

 

[leegscott]

Jim thanks for the reponse. I am sitting here watching my daughters soccer game. When I get home I am going to check out my different tip sizes I have for my gun. When you say enamel set up are you refering to tip size, fan adjustment and pressure adjustment?

 

[leegscott]

Thanks again Jim

I have two spray guns the first HVLP is a DevilBiss gravity feed (the pot is on top) and I have a 1.3mm, 1.5mm, 1.8mm, and a 2.2mm. This is the one I have used with the automotive paint. I normally use the 2.2mm tip for the high build filler / primer and the 1.3 or 1.5mm for the basecoat and clear.

I also have a Cambell Hausfield spray gun. I do not believe the tips on it are changeable (not sure). It has a pressure cup on the bottom of the gun. I believe it is not a HVLP gun but is meant for enamel and water base paints. In the past I have used it around the house.

I have talked to several paint stores and they have told me to use the gun with the pressure cup for the enamel. However, I think I would get a better finish with the HVLP gun but I think I will need to thin the paint down quite a bit to get a nice spray pattern. What do you think? I noticed you said a special enamel set up is that the tip and if so what size is yours?

Does anyone else have anythoughts?

Thanks

 

[mkadams001]

Yes, the reason that I have decided to try and get away from automotive paint is because it is nasty to work with (toxic) not to mention a lot of set up to use.

I used a full face respirator and protective clothing with glooves. I was able to get a great finish but as I try to decide on paint for this project I have asked myself is it really worth all of the set up time (the booth) and the risk of exposure and health risk. For now the answer is no!

I understand your wanting to use a product that might be less toxic than another. However, you want to continue to use your spray equipment to apply an industrial enamel. It seems to me that you will still require the same setup. You are still getting toxic mist and vapors regardless of the paint you use. I would recommend checking the MSDS for personal protection equipment and ventilation requirements.

Spray cans are a still toxic but since the volume of material is very low compared to spray equipment they are a little safer.

I am not trying to sway you towards one type of paint over the other but, I don't view one type of paint safer over the other and when using spray equipment I would use the same precautions for any coating.

I offer this as someone who has many years experience of spraying acrylic polyurethanes and many types of industrial and consumer coatings.

Your paint jobs look great!!

 

[blackjack2564]

Jim thanks for the reponse. When you say enamel set up are you refering to tip size, fan adjustment and pressure adjustment?

Yes to the above.

Mine is a Graco Pro...Set up with remote 2qt feed that hangs on belt and leaves gun free to rotate in any direction since paint is fed by line. So I can adjust the paint feed pressure and air to gun. I usually run between 6-11psi on the air and 4-5psi on the paint.
But I am familiar with a gravity feed cup set up. I have used them also.Contrary to what most think...you CAN thin the paint to extreme if need be, and get it to work beautifully.

Use the smallest tip that will give you the best, even smooth pattern with the particular paint you are using. It may require trying both to find out, and thinning to different levels a small amount at a time.

It depends alot on how well your material will spray. Meaning some materials which seem to be thick, will actually spray and lay out better, than others which seem already thin.

We are getting into alot of variables here, like pigment content depending on color. Deep tones bases not covering as well as Midtones etc etc.

All these things will make your paint spray differently. In other words: you may find the perfect setup as far as pressure, thinning and tip size for color dark blue in brand x paint.
But switch over to white in the same brand x and you may have to change the set up to get it to flow right.


A little trial and error will get you there. I start with what I think will work from experience, try it, then thin or change pressure. Repeat by thinning more until I get it right. I also use a viscosity cup so I can get the same consistency over and over. It's only a couple of bucks if you don't have one.

You may set up, thin and load,only to find it ain't working right. Well depending on temp, humidity etc. what worked yesterday won't today.

It was 75 out yest.but 90 today ....don't need to thin as much........I think you get it.

AND as stated before....get the HVLP dialed in and basically it's no muss, no fuss painting with less overspray than rattle cans.Less cover up and mess where you work.

All said and done, I know you have the patience to get it right. You should be able to get the HVLP dialed in with a little experimentation and come out with the kind of finish you would get from a conventional. Feel free to call...if you lost my # ....pm
Final note I find that the 5 gallon plastic pails we all have laying around are perfect for spraying test patterns on! They act pretty similar to smooth rocket tubes.