What is the biggest motor for non-certified

[nickcodybarrett]

What is the biggest motor you can put in the sky for non-certified?

I dont need need a lecture or a zillion questions. Just leave a link or give me some information on it.

thanks.

 

[blackbrandt]

You have to be high power certified for:
1. Cluster with more than 320 N*sec installed impulse
2. Single motor with more than 160 N*sec impulse
3. Any rocket weighing more than 53 oz loaded
4. Any motor with an average thrust greater than 80N, any sparky motor, any hybrid motor, or any motor with above 125 grams of propellant.

https://www.nar.org/high-power-rocketry-info/level-1-hpr-certification/

The AT G80 should satisfy this need.

 

[tab28682]

What is the biggest motor you can put in the sky for non-certified?

I dont need need a lecture or a zillion questions. Just leave a link or give me some information on it.

thanks.

In the simplest terms, you are limited to a G motor and an average thrust of 80Ns or less.

Other restrictions are nicely covered in the previous post.

 

[Cabernut]

Not sure where you're located, but in Canada the largest is a CTI G125-RL which has a total 159.6N and average 125N. Here the limit is only total 160N and less than 125g propellant, average can be whatever. G250 VMAX? OK.

 

[jimzcatz]

I would dispute #3,unless you have it in writing. You only need High Power Certification for motor class, not weight. If I am wrong, I will gladly admit it.

 

[rharshberger]

I would dispute #3,unless you have it in writing. You only need High Power Certification for motor class, not weight. If I am wrong, I will gladly admit it.

I believe you are correct Jim, the rockets weight is not a factor of HPR Certification, but it is a factor of whether a rocket requires a FAA waiver (of course that's another thread all together). However the link that Matt provided from the NAR website does include models over 53 ozs in the description of when a HPR Cert is required.

 

[scsager]

What is the biggest motor you can put in the sky for non-certified?

I dont need need a lecture or a zillion questions. Just leave a link or give me some information on it.

thanks.

Here is your very simple answer...

If you are under age 18 and in the USA, you may fly any single use "F" motor. Your total power is limited to 80 Ns maximum, and the motor must be "single use". Children are not allowed to purchase or use re-loadable motors. The CSPA (Consumer Product Safety Act of 1972) sets this limit for children in the USA.

If you are 18 or older, but do not have any High Power certification, you may fly a cluster of Two Aerotech G-80 motors in a rocket weighing 1500 grams or less. The weight is measured with the rocket in "ready-to-fly" condition with the motors installed. This 2x G80 cluster is about 274 Ns total. This is the most power you can use without High Power certification. These limits are set by the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration FAR 101) and The NFPA (National Fire Protection Association 1122 and 1127) The NFPA rules have been adopted into law in most (not all) states in the US. California may have more strict rules/laws.

 

[EeebeeE]

What is the biggest motor you can put in the sky for non-certified?

I dont need need a lecture or a zillion questions. Just leave a link or give me some information on it.

thanks.

Aerotech G80. You can also cluster 2 of them.

 

[dhbarr]

Almost everything listed here will require hazmat fees to ship, FYI. If you go to a local hobby shop or club launch, you're golden.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Just to save time, the answer is: No, you can't "go to space" on 2 G80's. :wink:

 

[cerving]

A CTI G54 has more impulse (159 n-s) than an Aerotech G80 (137 n-s). Nice long burn, too.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

A CTI G54 has more impulse (159 n-s) than an Aerotech G80 (137 n-s). Nice long burn, too.

Fun motor!

 

[boatgeek]

Fun motor!

I did my L1 cert on that motor before they downgraded it from 161 to 159 N-s. All kinds of fun.

 

[TopRamen]

You have to be high power certified for:
1. Cluster with more than 320 N*sec installed impulse
2. Single motor with more than 160 N*sec impulse
3. Any rocket weighing more than 53 oz loaded
4. Any motor with an average thrust greater than 80N, any sparky motor, any hybrid motor, or any motor with above 125 grams of propellant.

https://www.nar.org/high-power-rocketry-info/level-1-hpr-certification/

The AT G80 should satisfy this need.

You don't need to be "Certified" for anything. You just need a Waiver for a launch window.
Only "Clubs" require certifications to fly at their launches.
If I won a powerball jackpot today, I could have my very own personal satellite in orbit 12 months from now, and the only deals that would be made would be between me and the Government, not Tripoli or the NAR.

 

[scsager]

A CTI G54 has more impulse (159 n-s) than an Aerotech G80 (137 n-s). Nice long burn, too.

YES - This is true, the CTI G54 is a "Full" G. The G54 also contains 86.5 grams of propellant. A 2x G54 cluster requires L1 certification due to the total propellant weight limit under NFPA 1127 3.3.13.1

As far as I know, the 2x AT G80 cluster is still the most total impulse allowed without cert. (I could be wrong)

 

[scsager]

You don't need to be "Certified" for anything. You just need a Waiver for a launch window.
Only "Clubs" require certifications to fly at their launches.
If I won a powerball jackpot today, I could have my very own personal satellite in orbit 12 months from now, and the only deals that would be made would be between me and the Government, not Tripoli or the NAR.

I'm sorry Top, Your reply is not quite accurate.

As far as I know, the OP is still in High School, and is subject to the "F" motor limit under Federal Law U.S.C 15 2051-2084 (CSPA)

In addition, The State of Vermont (for example) has fully adapted NFPA. You may not like it, but that's the law. Fly an H motor in your backyard in Vermont without L1 certification, and almost certainly no one will notice.

However you will be in violation of state law, and your actions may also jeopardize the vendor who (illegally) sold the motor to you.

Certification is actually state law in most of the US.

Bonus points for anyone who can name the states that have NOT adopted NFPA.

 

[jimzcatz]

You don't need to be "Certified" for anything. You just need a Waiver for a launch window.
Only "Clubs" require certifications to fly at their launches.
If I won a powerball jackpot today, I could have my very own personal satellite in orbit 12 months from now, and the only deals that would be made would be between me and the Government, not Tripoli or the NAR.

Boy are you misinformed. If you are not a member of any certifying body, a university project, a military or government agency and you fly anything requiring high power certification, you are in violation of federal law. Don't matter if you are at LDRS or your back forty with your own waiver. We (TRA and NAR) as a self governing organization was granted permission to fly high power. That's how this all started when Tripoli was founded. So you go ahead and get into orbit, I will visit you in prison.

 

[cbrarick]

AGGGHHHHH!
all this argument hurts my head!

JUST CERTIFY!

Do it!

(it's as good a reason as any other, cause then you can fly a full I motor in the US or H in Canada)

ps Connecticut has only adopted the 1995 version of NFPA 1127

 

[Bat-mite]

What is the biggest motor you can put in the sky for non-certified?

I dont need need a lecture or a zillion questions. Just leave a link or give me some information on it.

thanks.

To answer the question just as it is written -- you could grab an O motor and lob it into the air without any certification. :wink: Okay, I'm an ass.