What if body tubes came with the spirals already filled?

[artgsc]

It seems like the majority of my build effort on mid-power rockets is spent working on trying to make body tube spirals disappear in order to strive towards attaining an excellent smooth finish. I have watched every video and read every thread on the subject and have tried many techniques but still at times get less than hoped for results. My thought is that if a kit manufacturer could come up with a way to construct paper tubes with the spirals already filled and the tubes ready for paint I would most likely be a buyer. Of course, the price of the kit would go up but would it exceed my current cost in filler, primer, sandpaper, time and periodic disappointment?

 

[Steven]

I use CA glue and paper to adhere to the surface for this purpose. Cut the pattern just 1/8" over and saturate the paper while rubbing it into the wood surface. You can then sand and prime to see the results.

 

[Steven]

Ooops, that for fins, not spirals.

 

[JohnCoker]

Some tubes don't have grooves, although they tend to be more applicable to HPR than MPR.
jcrocket.com/body-tubes.shtml

 

[MOF410]

We could only hope...

It's funny because as I'm reading this I'm experimenting w the best fastest cheapest way to fill spirals and im not impressed w any of the results. They all look great after adding tons of labor, but its not what I want the bulk of my rocket time to be spent on.

Might just go back to prime sand prime sand paint and only fill spirals on rockets that call that are more show pieces.

 

[Funkworks]

Public Missiles has plastic tubes they call "Quantum Tubes". No spirals because well ... they're plastic.

Also, some manufacturing processes result in cardboard spirals being almost invisible, but I'm not sure which companies are involved. The tube for my Estes Honest John made a few years ago is like this. Spirals are barely visible.

 

[Joshua F Thomas]

My latest issue is with the tubes that have two kinds of spirals: The ones that have an actual groove, and the ones that are semi-transparent. The semi-transparent ones will still show after primer, and you can’t fill them

I mean, maybe they go away after 3+ coats of primer, but I can’t make myself do that many.

 

[XrayLizard]

In the coming months I will continue with my high build sealer... results now are promising, but it’s an ugly black gray color.
Basically I’m mixing woodworking rottenstone with off the shelf sanding sealer . Same way one would add talc or whatnot . The rottenstone appears to absorb the sealer which is good.
But it seems to me that laquer sands easy enough starting with 400 then 600
Just no real easy way out it seems

 

[David Schwantz]

there are some many ways of doing this, none are wrong, but all take time. I have used Rusty sandable primer sprayed in a cup and painting into the spiral or groove with a small brush. Then just sand away. Takes less primer and less sanding. Also just sprayed entire tube with several wet coats, let dry for a couple weeks and again start sanding. I am doing a Sonotube rocket and the grooves would fit one of those little Fiats. Have been filling with bondo and then using mouse for sanding. They come out very nice like that, but again, lots of work. All just depends on what your level of finish is wanted.

 

[lakeroadster]

Embrace the spirals... Use Reynolds Wrap Tubes..

 

[Yukon@K-9 Rocket Tech]

I hope I don't make anyone cringe, but I personally don't care about the spirals

 

[modeltrains]

I hope I don't make anyone cringe, but I personally don't care about the spirals

They cringe not because of what comes from outside their beings, but cringe from within, their shudders rooted in lingering traumas from now barely-remembered-if-at-all ancient shocks to their deepest model-building cores.

(can you tell our creative writers group had met that morning?)

 

[neil_w]

I hope I don't make anyone cringe, but I personally don't care about the spirals

No cringing, everyone gets to choose which parts of the hobby they care to focus on, particularly with regard to finishing.

 

[David Schwantz]

Embrace the spirals... Use Reynolds Wrap Tubes..

View attachment 429205View attachment 429207

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEET NC!

 

[Bill S]

I just cover the entire body tube with Bondo glaze and sand it off. Kind of time consuming - definitely not my favorite part of the construction process. Now what I HATE with the construction process is sealing the fins and making them smooth as I can. Bondo glaze them, sand as best I can, prime (which just shows the defects even better), sand/Bondo those spots etc. Then prime again, fix again, repeat several times more. And then when I get it almost there, then I inadvertantly leave a fingernail mark somewhere, even though I've trimmed my nails and wore nitrile gloves while handling the rocket. Then fix that defect and prime, then find another, etc.

But I cannot stand to look at poorly done fins, complete with wood grain lines. I haven't tried to paper fins yet; that may happen at some point.

 

[neil_w]

But I cannot stand to look at poorly done fins, complete with wood grain lines. I haven't tried to paper fins yet; that may happen at some point.

Papering is easy and works great. Try it!

 

[artgsc]

I am not an engineer or chemist so don't have a clue as to how this could be done...but it would be interesting if one of the popular kit purveyors could come up with a process (at reasonable cost) in which the paper tubes were somehow pre-finished and primed (maybe some kind of dip process or something?) during the production. Might be a way for a brand to separate themselves from the pack so to speak......

 

[Joshua F Thomas]

Like, say, Quantum Tubes?

 

[neil_w]

I am not an engineer or chemist so don't have a clue as to how this could be done...but it would be interesting if one of the popular kit purveyors could come up with a process (at reasonable cost) in which the paper tubes were somehow pre-finished and primed (maybe some kind of dip process or something?) during the production. Might be a way for a brand to separate themselves from the pack so to speak......

I just don't think most kit vendors are looking for ways to spend even more money on processing parts, given that many (most?) buyers would not be willing to pay extra for it. Not that I particularly enjoy filling spirals, but I don't see this being a likely area of focus.

 

[lakeroadster]

Like, say, Quantum Tubes?

Nope. For lpr, the ideal tube is wood based, not plastic.

 

[PXR5]

If it wasn't for the spirals, then what could we complain about LOL

 

[OverTheTop]

If it wasn't for the spirals, then what could we complain about LOL

Sanding fillets and fins.

 

[BABAR]

Why not just paper the tube?

You end up with one longitudinal seam, which can probably be covered partly with a fin or launch lug, and can certainly be placed on the “back” side of the rocket (the one side you don’t photograph, and since you put the lug or rail buttons on it, nobody can see it on the pad?) You could also incorporate the seam into your decor scheme, like a line in a roll pattern. Or stick fake rivets on it, sort of the “oh yeah, I MEANT to do that.”

Downsides:

Makes tube outside diameter a smidge larger than base of corresponding nose cone (unless you 3D print your cone, in which case you can adjust easily)

You need some sort of cut out for fins, lugs, and @jqavins ’ “fiddly bits” which need direct attachment to the body tube or slots for through the wall fins.

 

[jbr]

just go to fiberglass tubes

 

[Zertyme]

Seamless phenolic airframe and coupler tube :
https://www.blackcatrocketry.co.uk/collections/rocket-parts/products/phenolic-airframe-tube

 

[OverTheTop]

Why not fiberglass the tube? Just one layer of something like fg tissue might do the trick.

 

[jimzcatz]

It seems like the majority of my build effort on mid-power rockets is spent working on trying to make body tube spirals disappear in order to strive towards attaining an excellent smooth finish. I have watched every video and read every thread on the subject and have tried many techniques but still at times get less than hoped for results. My thought is that if a kit manufacturer could come up with a way to construct paper tubes with the spirals already filled and the tubes ready for paint I would most likely be a buyer. Of course, the price of the kit would go up but would it exceed my current cost in filler, primer, sandpaper, time and periodic disappointment?

I dont get it. Why bother. I have never understood the desire you guys have for filling spirals. If you want babybutt smooth go with Quantum tube or G10.

 

[Joshua F Thomas]

I dont get it. Why bother. I have never understood the desire you guys have for filling spirals. If you want babybutt smooth go with Quantum tube or G10.

I guess some of it is kit based, like you already have a kit and don't want to buy more stuff.

 

[prfesser]

I dont get it. Why bother. I have never understood the desire you guys have for filling spirals. If you want babybutt smooth go with Quantum tube or G10.

Not really a desire to fill spirals but a desire to have a smooth finish that doesn't look like a cardboard tube. I would certainly go with FG for a special project, but.... my next HP rocket will be a 3" WAC Corporal. I could order a kit, or buy an expensive piece of FG tubing...or I could use the 3" cardboard tubing and coupler that's been sitting in the tube collection I bought at a bargain basement price about ten years ago. And fill some spirals. (I'm not cheap, just frugal. )

Best -- Terry

 

[XrayLizard]

For competition rockets.. PD, SD, Altitude

I sorely miss Pactra Formula-U paint...,