What Glue is Right For Your Rocket?

Discussion in 'The Watering Hole' started by Matt_The_RocketMan, Sep 19, 2019.

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  1. Sep 19, 2019 #1

    Matt_The_RocketMan

    Matt_The_RocketMan

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    White Craft Glue:

    This is the most common craft glue for porous lightweight materials such as paper, cardboard, cloth, and kids’ crafts.

    Water is the carrier; this means easy clean up and low toxicity. Keep in mind that the glue must dry before strength is significant and the project often requires clamping to hold it in place until the glue is completely set and dry. This also means that white craft glue should not be used in applications that require water resistance.

    White craft glue dries clear and is somewhat flexible. Get creative and add fillers, like fine glitter, pigment, or water-based food coloring for decorative effects.

    ~1 hour set time, with final cure in 24 hours.

    Yellow Wood Glue:

    Yellow wood glue is also water based – and is made of the same vinyl acetate polymers as craft glue. It is designed to work with wood and is immediately tacky for better hold in the uncured state. It is also generally more rigid, hence it is easier to sand. Some wood glue can also be white and dry clear. Make sure to read the labels. Again, you can add sawdust or another powdered filler for special effects.

    Wood glues set in ~less than 1 hr. That said, it could take as long as 24 hours to reach full strength.

    Three types of wood adhesives are available:

    1. Type-I exhibits some waterproof properties.
    2. Type-II will perform better in exterior conditions. These adhesives generally have a longer open time and can bond at colder temperatures. Both types I and II can be used for exterior applications, such as outdoor furniture and trim.
    3. Type-III is not water resistant and is designed for interior use only. Type-III is good for interior woodwork and trim projects.
    Note: True water resistance for immersion in water requires a marine glue.



    Super Glue (also known as cyanoacrylate adhesives):

    Cyanoacrylate adhesives bond very quickly and to a range of substrates. They form a very strong bond and dry clear. The surfaces to be mated must fit together well to achieve good bonding. You can buy super glue in a variety of viscosities which enable some leeway in gap filling performance. However, super glues can be finicky with respect to surface contact and coverage- too much or too little can affect the bond. In general, super glues are not good for foamed plastic, unless specified on the bottle.

    Cyanoacrylates work best in tensile applications that have low impact strength requirements. In their uncured state, you can use an acetone solvent wipe for cleanup. However, once cured, solvents can no longer dissolve the adhesive.

    Cyanoacrylates work particularly well for balsa wood projects. Carpenters often use a two part cyanoacrylate to quickly bond mitered wood trim.

    Cyanoacrylates can set in seconds to minutes, depending on formulation. It dries clear and is waterproof.

    Bottom Line: Cyanoacrylates are good for projects involving: wood, metal, ceramic, leather, glass, and some plastic where bond line is very tight.

    Hot glue:

    The melting and cooling of polymers provides the methods of delivery and adhesion for hot melt adhesives. Hot glue is most commonly applied using a glue gun and comes in low (250°F) and high (380°F) melting options. Many varieties and performances are available depending on the polymer type. Hot glue can be used on porous and non-porous surfaces. Because of its high viscosity, it can bond uneven surfaces together and is great at filling gaps.

    Hot glue is not typically used in high strength applications. And, it will not survive elevated temperatures near the application temperature. However, it provides a very quick setting option for a variety of crafts and substrates. It’s a great all-purpose craft glue for quick set up and execution, but it’s not for use by children.

    Hot tip: With hot glue, you can trace patterns to form bead designs on surfaces for texture and paint over it for a 3D surface effect. Hot glue is often used to add flower or ribbon embellishment on wreaths, headbands and picture frames where stiffness and strength is not such a concern.

    Pressure sensitive adhesives (PSA):

    PSAs are available in sheets and dots and can be used in a multitude of craft projects to include substrates such as lightweight paper, plastic, metal, and glass.

    Spray adhesives:

    A spray adhesive is a contact adhesive based in a solvent that is applied by spray. When using spray adhesives, it is important that you apply in a well-ventilated room. After spraying your project, allow the solvent to completely evaporate before mating for immediate bond. Once mated, you cannot reposition your substrates.

    Spray adhesives can be used with paper, foam board, fabrics, photo, and felt. Specialty contact adhesives are also available in a can to roll or brush on for larger, more demanding projects that involve wood, metal, and plastic sheet laminates.

    Application example: Spray adhesives are an excellent choice for adhering photos or fabrics to a foam board back.

    Fabric adhesives:

    Fabric adhesives can be liquid white glues like polyvinyl acetate (PVA) types. A variety of products cover lightweight to heavyweight fabric bonding, so it is important to get the correct product to match the hand or drape of your project. Some versions are safe for washing and dry cleaning, but it’s important to read the glue’s label first.

    There is an expanded selection of nonwoven tapes and fusing adhesives in rolled good form, which range from highly flexible to stiff for fabric and leather projects and garment construction. These can be found in sewing and fabric stores and can bond permanently without bleed through for a very durable craft.

    Fabric adhesives can be used to fix a hem that is falling apart and for DIY projects like making headbands or constructing fabric/foam laminated computer sleeves.

    Epoxy:

    Epoxies are generally two part systems designed for high performance bonding. While epoxies can be formulated to suit many applications, they are generally very hard, durable adhesives that bond to many substrates successfully in more extreme environments. Epoxy adhesives can exhibit a range of flexibility and clarity as well as cure speed.

    Epoxies have excellent gap filling properties due to their high cohesive strength.

    Polyurethane:

    Polyurethane adhesives bond a variety of surfaces. They bond to textile fibers, metals, plastics, glass, sand, ceramics, rubber, and wood.

    Polyurethane is a multipurpose glue that comes in one part and two part options.

    Polyurethanes can work well on a wide variety of wood species, particularly on woods with high moisture content or on oily woods, where other glues are not as successful. Clamping is required until strength is built; a few hours. Full strength is achieved in six to eight hours for a very strong and tough bond.

    Before completely cured, polyurethane adhesives can be removed using solvents such as mineral spirits or acetone. Dried glue can be sanded.

    Glue Sticks:

    Glue sticks are great for kids! They are a low bonding adhesive, but do provide a permanent bond on various types of paper to include cardboard, foam board, and poster board. Glue dries clear.

    Application examples: sealing envelopes, applying labels, paper crafting, art projects, scrapbooking.




    CRAFT GLUE TIPS:

    1. Not all glues are created equal. There are many variations within each category and from one manufacturer to another. Read the labels for information on toxicity, ventilation, recommended handling and use, as well as durability in a variety of environments.

    2. Apply adhesive evenly and remove excess quickly. Immediately clean and cap the adhesive container to maintain shelf life and performance.

    3. For optimum bond strength, it is imperative that the surfaces are residue and dust free. If possible, clean surfaces prior to bonding with a lint-free rag dipped in isopropanol. Let them dry thoroughly before applying adhesive.

    4. For crafts and repair projects requiring some durability and strength, you can often aid adhesion by roughening the surfaces with fine grit sandpaper to provide “teeth” for adhesives to interlock. If you cannot abrade the surface, try wiping with isopropanol or acetone before applying adhesive. This is particularly helpful for smooth, glossy surfaces that can be harder to bond.

    5. Experiment with the glue on scrap pieces of your project. Check for appearance, adhesion and and resulting bond strength.

    SOURCE : https://www.adhesives.org/adhesives-sealants/adhesive-selection/types-of-glue-glue-tips
     
  2. Sep 19, 2019 #2

    neil_w

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    A few comments on this, if I may:
    1) Since this entire post is copy/pasted from your source, you should make that clear at the top of the post. Or just provide a link in the first place.
    2) This should go somewhere else other than The Watering Hole, either Techniques or Beginners subforum.
    3) Yellow wood glue is aliphatic resin, not PVA.
    4) This is a decent overview of different glue types, but contrary to the thread title, it does not address any of the domain-specific issues that influence choice of adhesives for various rocket tasks (again, that's because it's copy/pasted from non-rocket-specific website).
     
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  3. Sep 19, 2019 #3

    watheyak

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    Hot glue is for the lazy and small-minded.
     
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  4. Sep 19, 2019 #4

    Red7Fifty

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    I like Epoxy, it doesn't soak into the cardboard like wood glue and cause body tube mis-shaping rings.
    Mix in Micro balloons for making filets and lighter weight.
     
  5. Sep 19, 2019 #5

    Rex R

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    the best glue is, the one that works :).
    Rex
     
  6. Sep 19, 2019 #6

    neil_w

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    In addition to being pointlessly judgmental, this statement is devoid of useful information for anyone who might be trying to learn something from this thread (admittedly, a dubious proposition, but let's run with it).

    Hot glue is unsuitable for nearly any rocket-building task because
    1) it's not strong
    2) it's not heat-resistant
    3) it's messy

    Hot glue is good for sticking nearly anything together for craft projects that won't be subject to high speeds, temperatures, or forces. Just Say No for rocket applications, unless you have a really unusual circumstance (usually some sort of weird odd-roc) and know exactly what you're doing.
     
  7. Sep 19, 2019 #7

    watheyak

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    It was meant to be humorous, in addition to devoid of useful information.
     
  8. Sep 19, 2019 #8

    kuririn

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    The only time I've seen hot glue recommended for rocketry applications is for the foam cup rockets, like the Fliskits UFFO and Decaffeinator.
    After building those I have had breaks due to the glue not holding strongly enough.
    Considering using foam safe CA instead.
     
  9. Sep 19, 2019 #9

    samb

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    food fight.jpg

    GLUE THREAD !!!
     
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  10. Sep 19, 2019 #10

    Matt_The_RocketMan

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    I thought the listing of Universal glues would help those who dont understand what they are and what they do. So Maybe if you would like to add onto the thread and advise others on what types of glue should go with what types of rocket builds.

    Thanks
     
  11. Sep 20, 2019 #11

    Alan15578

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    Well, I'd like to see construction adhesives addressed. That is wide spectrum, but there must be some applicable to sport rocket construction.
     
  12. Sep 21, 2019 #12

    MikeyDSlagle

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    Hot glue can be used in rocketry.
    Sealing bulkhead penetrations
    Securing cable/wire in the AV bay
    Tacking something in place temporarily or until fillets are added (I recently had to do this, I'll go back and add epoxy fillets - it's not structural and does qualify for an unusual circumstance)

    I wouldn't use it for anything structural or critical but it has a few uses.
     
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  13. Sep 23, 2019 #13

    dr wogz

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    can you explain or further detail the " 2 part CA" comment?
     
  14. Sep 23, 2019 #14

    neil_w

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    Who mentioned 2-part CA? I'm looking back over this thread and I don't see it.
     
  15. Sep 23, 2019 #15

    cerving

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    I use it all the time for sealing cable holes in bulkheads, it's nearly instant and just as good as a silicone adhesive in this application. Get a wireless gun and you can use it in the field too.
     
  16. Sep 23, 2019 #16

    kuririn

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    It's mentioned in the original article in the first post. At first I thought it was a typo, and they meant epoxy instead of CA. But after a little digging I found that there IS such a thing as 2 part CA.
    Here's one from Loctite:
    https://www.gluegun.com/products/loctite-3092-cyanoacrylate-two-part-non-sag-gel
    Who knew? I learn something from this forum all the time.
    Cheers.
     
  17. Sep 23, 2019 #17

    neil_w

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    Ah, just found it finally. Interesting.
     
  18. Sep 23, 2019 #18

    dr wogz

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    I, frankly, was thinking he was referring to the CA glue and the 'kicker' or spray activator / hardener..
     
  19. Oct 3, 2019 #19

    Matt_The_RocketMan

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    Learned from someone else's mistake that hot glue is not to be used to fuse the balsa wood fins to a card stock body tube. Initially the heat that the engine gives off partially melts the hot glue, thus creating a weak bonding with the fin and BT. Luckily I was there to correct that person's building technique, and showed them how to use hot glue / epoxy as a fillet for the fins...
     
  20. Oct 3, 2019 #20

    Matt_The_RocketMan

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    [​IMG]
    I thought this diagram for super glue was helpful, I build lots of different rockets, with lots of different parts and tecs.
     
  21. Oct 3, 2019 #21

    neil_w

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    Hot glue for fillets???
     
  22. Oct 3, 2019 #22

    jqavins

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    I'm glad hot glue is working for folks sealing bulkheads. Personally, I've seen so many hot glue failures that I wouldn't trust it to stand up to vibration during motor burn; I'd sooner use chewing gum.
     
  23. Oct 3, 2019 #23

    dr wogz

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    Advertising for Loc-tite & Home Depot?! :D

    Frankly, I've not yet used any 'CA' glue in rocket building.. I've used a lot on R/C plane building. But I also use BSI brand CA available from the local hobby shop. I would bet its cheaper too, than multiple little bottles of Loc-tite CA..
     
  24. Oct 3, 2019 #24

    neil_w

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    I've been very happy with the Loc-tite medium CA in the bottle as my general-purpose CA which nowadays gets rather little use in my rocket building. I use Bob Smith thin CA for hardening balsa and the ends of body tubes, that gets plenty of use.
     
  25. Oct 3, 2019 #25

    kuririn

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    Only time I've seen CA recommended is for the Aerotech kits, to glue their locking fins and fin can to the body tubes.
    Plastic to cardboard, dissimilar materials.
     
  26. Oct 3, 2019 #26

    neil_w

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    John Pursley recommends recommends CA for gluing together his skinned models. He has interesting things to say about CA, especially for basswood. If it were anyone else I'd probably disregard it, but John Pursley is no dummy.

    That said, when I built my Ragnarok I just couldn't bring myself to use CA to attach the fins, although I did use it as a sort of fillet to fill the gaps and seal in the edges of the skins.
     
  27. Oct 3, 2019 #27

    jqavins

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    I've used it for fin attachment, but only for tacking them. Before I had the Estes fin jig, I would put a drop of thick CA near but not at each end of the root cord, then rock the fin into place with one corner of the root down so the glue makes contact when the other corner does. I would only have to hold it straight for a few seconds. That hold it in place through gentle handling. Then I'd apply thin along the length of the root, and that makes it rather less fragile so it can handle regular careful handling without kid gloves. Then add Tightbond fillets, which is where the real strength lies anyway.

    With a good jig none of that is necessary, but I would still use it for off-normal fins unless I were to make a custom jig.
     
  28. Oct 3, 2019 #28

    Matt_The_RocketMan

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    No i am not advertising, i simply could not find any other pictures relating.
     
  29. Oct 3, 2019 #29

    Matt_The_RocketMan

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    And yes I do use Hot Glue as a Fillet, but this is due partially that we have low funds and no experience with epoxy. + to the fact that none of my rockets have ever had issues with Hot glue fillings (4 + years of doing this btw)

    I know what I am doing
     
  30. Oct 3, 2019 #30

    neil_w

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    Are you not aware that you can use white or yellow glue for fillets? That would be the normal approach for paper-and-wood rockets.
     

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