What do you want in a level 3 rocket?

Discussion in 'High Power Rocketry (HPR)' started by David Schwantz, May 22, 2019.

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  1. May 22, 2019 #1

    David Schwantz

    David Schwantz

    David Schwantz

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    Want to know what everyone would want in their own level 3 rocket? What building techniques would you use? What materials would you choose and why? Would you build a kit instead?
     
  2. May 22, 2019 #2

    cbrarick

    cbrarick

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    ez kit. I did the ultimate wildman. tried and true, able to take a significant punishment
     
  3. May 22, 2019 #3

    blackjack2564

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    Fiberglass..most damage comes from transport. Kit always cheaper than scratch.[almost always]
    6in diameter. I'm on east coast with lower waivers [standard is around 10,000 ft]
    Something I can fly multiple times for fun after cert. on L's M's N's
    Easily prepped and flown.
    Standard build for me just, inject internal fillets, 2 tie rod av-bay, main chute in payload. Glue shock cord Y-harness to motor mount tube. {now after 16 yrs I realize it will never wear out, when I built mine way back used eyebolts so I could replace cordage...yeah right LOL.]

    My L-3 has actually flown 22 times on 11 M-2200 skids..Contrail L& M's...CTI N-1100 ATn-1000 N-10,000 N-58000, AMW various loads research motors too.

    I see far too many L-3 projects way overbuilt, by in-experienced fliers, who never or rarely fly that rocket again....such a waste.

    If I lived where I had higher waiver, would have been a 4in with 75mm mount. Far more usable rocket for after the cert.:cool:
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
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  4. May 22, 2019 #4

    TimothyG

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    4” minimum diameter that I’m launching on a very small impulse M motor. Then I can grow into it as I fly higher and faster slowly working my way up in impulse. Lots of room for me to grow and develop my experience and knowledge after finishing L3.
     
  5. May 22, 2019 #5

    OverTheTop

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    Kit is fine, as is a scratchy. Personally I fly at least one motor designation more than the minimum requirement for the cert. I Flew an N1100 in my half-scale Nike Smoke. Fiberglass is great to work with and makes a robust rocket.

    Use it as an excuse to learn some new techniques.

    In my case the L3 rocket turned into the booster for my Nike Apache, which was always the long-term plan.

    Fly what you want to fly :).
     
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  6. May 22, 2019 #6

    David Schwantz

    David Schwantz

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    I had looked at a 6" ultimate from Wildman, nice. I have also wanted to use the 4" Black Hole from Mach 1, also nice. Our waiver has a standing 20,000' limit. I know I would want it to be at least fiberglass. Has anyone done it in carbon? Or is one this size way costly? On all my rockets, even 13mm, I have made the shock cords removable, never have trusted gluing to mmt. I had looked at the small AT DMS M1350W, 75mm so I could use a 54mm adapter with the 4" Black Hole. As long as the 6" is not to heavy, will they fly on most 54's?
     
  7. May 22, 2019 #7

    roytyson

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    I am building a 4" Madcow Frenzy. Most are telling me Im overbuilding. I am pushing the limits and putting an M1850 in it. To make it fit, I had to extend the lower section to have room for a chute. It was a kit I had on hand, a motor that I wanted, so that's how I came to this conclusion.
    I have not seen the need for carbon, and that seems like a rich man's game, one I have never considered. As for the right motor, run the sims. For me, 6" is a little big for a 54mm.
     
  8. May 22, 2019 #8

    Bat-mite

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    First thing I would do is ask myself this question: "I am getting my level 3 cert because ____________ ."

    The answer will help you choose a rocket.
     
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  9. May 22, 2019 #9

    Theory

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    ^^^ THIS ^^^

    I am far from L3, but if/when I get there the though process will mimic that of my current builds: "what do I want to accomplish and why?"
     
  10. May 22, 2019 #10

    Nytrunner

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    Not 3FNC. Great example being Nick@Jet's Ultimate QCC

    I'm thinking 5" fiberglass, sport-scale something, 98mm mount, M-O capable, couple camera's in interesting places.
     
  11. May 22, 2019 #11

    Rail Dawg

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    No matter what convert the rocket to the Stu Barrett anti-zipper design.

    Chuck C.
     
  12. May 22, 2019 #12

    dr wogz

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    to copy / imitate / rival a few of the university teams.. I do like the 'deploy a rover' concept!

    (I just had the SAE heavy lift competition in my days..)
     
  13. May 22, 2019 #13

    BDB

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    I recently changed my plans for L3. I had originally planned to build an upscale Velociraptor, so I could use the three Binder Design dinosaurs for my three certification levels.

    Now the plan is to build an upscale of the rocket that my daughter designed. That way we can scratch build it together. The plan is to fly it on a single M motor for the certification and to then fly it as a cluster. It will probably be made of 7.5" Blue Tube.

    So what am I looking for in L3?....something that I can do with my kids.

    onTV29CdT2ma1tlQjLUtYg.jpg
     
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  14. May 22, 2019 #14

    bclark989

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    That is my plan. We have 50k' AGL so I have a Dominator 4 with a 75mm mount on my bench for some day.... Hope I get to fly it as much as you have flown yours.
     
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  15. May 23, 2019 #15

    Handeman

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    You are asking what we would want, not what we did.
    I bought a 6" kit fiberglass kit because it was a great buy and the timing was just before LDRS was coming to the east coast. That let me cert at my home field and fly my first EX motor at LDRS.
    I'm still looking at building what I had originally intended to L3 on, a 3X upgrade of my retired Binder Design Thug.
     
  16. May 23, 2019 #16

    David Schwantz

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    I have done several searches and found a link from 1993, that did not work. The only other info I find is about an ejection baffle at the coupler. But that is about all it said. Do you have any more info on this, or any links to it? Thanks.
     
  17. May 23, 2019 #17

    Rocketclar

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    There are no shortcuts with HP, so build it rugged. I had planned on scaling up a 4" design I had successfully done with a HDPE clad rocket, but Mad Cow had a sale on a 5" fiberglass kit that was the same cost as my estimate for scratch. So I went with the Mad Cow FG kit as I had experience from other old Rocketry Warehouse FG kits that were extremely rugged. My mentor reminded me that a kit is just a bucket of parts anyway. I did tweak some parts based on my mentor's inputs. I overbuilt as my goal was to succeed first time with my L3 which I did. I used Stu's anti-zipper design (he was one of my mentors) along with the West System epoxy. I also used a piston ejection for the main. Final rocket was about 50 lbs on the pad and 13 ft tall. Again, goal was to succeed first time. A Gorilla M-1665 put it up to over 7300 ft on it's cert flight. Have flown it again successfully.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2019
  18. May 23, 2019 #18

    David Schwantz

    David Schwantz

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    What is Stu's anti zipper design?
     
  19. May 23, 2019 #19

    Rocketclar

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  20. May 23, 2019 #20

    Locksmith

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    If/when I get my L3 it will be a rocket of my design.

    Im not a fan of the buy this kit use this glue with this motor now your a rocket expert... When I start the journey for my L3 I want to experiment with different designs different building techniques on a smaller scale 54mm-3"-4" etc working my way up to the final result.
     
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  21. May 23, 2019 #21

    Rocketclar

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    I agree. I've got an Excel spreadsheet that I log all of my flights on. So far I've burned 1195 motors...albeit clusters and staging adds to those numbers that started back in 1988. Includes 1/2A's up thru M's. Many scratch builds in there. Most of the kits have been tweaked anyway.
     
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  22. May 23, 2019 #22

    Bat-mite

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    Again, I'll ask, why are you certifying? If you plan to aim for the stars at Black Rock, then build min-D CF. If you like big, bulky, low and slow, then build an 8" FG kit. If you want to be a great scratch builder, then scratch build. You have too ask yourself, "Okay, now I can launch any motor they sell. What do i want to do from here?"
     
  23. May 23, 2019 #23

    David Schwantz

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    Hi Bat, in answer to your question " it is the next step in the journey". I have built kits and scratch built for 50 years, since grade school, and I just turned 59. I don't need to fly the "biggest" motor there is. Probably can't afford that anyway:( To me, I guess it has always just been "I built that and it DOES fly" Whether it is rockets or RC planes. I prefer scale, I have 3 Phoenix missiles, 2 V-2's and a Saturn V. I have a 1/48th scale Saturn V in the works, it will be 8.25 DIA and 83" tall. Will be 3 stage and the CM will come down on three chutes (hope). I am a firm believer in that if you use good materials, have good building skills, and the rocket is of sound design, that after a good pre flight, recovery prep, and motor assembly the rocket should fly and land itself, unlike RC. Have flown multi stage as a kid, Estes BP stuff, someday will do multi stage with HP, probably 29mm, at least to start. Have never flown cluster, but would like to try that also. And none of these need to be level 3 to accomplish.
     
  24. May 23, 2019 #24

    Wallace

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    I"m planning on building an upscaled version of the classic Estes Optima (or Shadow depending on paint scheme) for no other reason than the fact that I've always liked the look, in 7.5" preglassed PML phenolic with a very nice hand laid glass N.C. apparently made by Dangerous Dave. Mainly doing it because I love large rockets (especially with my vision problems) with the reason behind the materials is simply the deal I got on 'em in the Yard sale section. My home field being Bong has a standing 10,000' waiver so the whole thing just fits my situation. Do I "need" to get my L3? No, but does anyone? I certainly do want to and although I've been planning/simulating and collecting parts for quite a while now actual construction has yet to begin. Mostly due to finances, which then
    begs the question "how often will you fly it". Unless something drastic changes with my current financial/medical situation, probably not very. Even if it only flies once, (hopefully successfullyo_O) I'm perfectly Ok with that, this is a hobby after all and you tend to end up with some fairly fascinating wall hangers if nothing else. Everyone tends to have their own opinions/ideas/designs and that's exactly what keeps me interested...
     
  25. May 23, 2019 #25

    David Schwantz

    David Schwantz

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    That is one of the nice things about this, there is something for everyone. Good luck with your build Wallace.
     
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  26. May 23, 2019 #26

    Bat-mite

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    Ignore. Dh duh duh
     

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