What about the "ceramic hybrid spray" sold by auto parts stores?

prfesser

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Recently I was made aware of so-called "ceramic hybrid spray" wax. It's supposed to provide a hard, hydrophobic (water beads up), SiO2 (that's sand or glass, but giving a formula is so science-y) surface that's superior to other waxes, easy to apply, etc., etc., blah blah. There are several brands available. Has anyone out there used the stuff on their car? If so, how would you describe the results?

If it's even half as good as the hype surrounding it, it might be useful for rockets as well. I have my doubts....but it's worth asking.

Best,
Terry
 

boomtube-mk2

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I don't know about a ceramic wax, but I painted a lot of my rockets using High Temperature Engine paints with Ceramic and the finishes were incredible.
The paint is durable and hard, smooth as glass and shiny!

If this wax is anything like the paints, it should be a good product so long as it is compatible to the paint it is being applied over.
 

Banzai88

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I've used the Meguiar's hybrid ceramic wax since owning my 2021 Challenger about this time last year. We've waxed my wife's Nissan and my Toyota truck at the same time with other so called 'premium' products.....hands down the ceramic stuff is easier to apply, lasts longer, and provides a much deeper shine.
 

eugenefl

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I've used the Meguiar's hybrid ceramic wax since owning my 2021 Challenger about this time last year. We've waxed my wife's Nissan and my Toyota truck at the same time with other so called 'premium' products.....hands down the ceramic stuff is easier to apply, lasts longer, and provides a much deeper shine.

I'd consider Meguiar's to be a "premioum" product, but I suppose ceramics kinda have their own marketing classes and gimmickery going on. Good to hear the feedback as I have been extremely doubtful of the validity of these alleged new coatings especially when perusing the selections at Walmart and various auto parts retailers. It all starts to look the same bottle after bottle with the only difference being price and/or quantity. Also, glad to hear feedback on this segment of product via a model rocketry forum. For some reason there's a built-in/established trust hearing this from a fellow rocketeer. :D
 
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I sprayed a rocket with the ceramic-infused engine paint, only because I wanted orange, and it was the only orange the parts store had at the time. I agree-got a great finish with it.
 

manixFan

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I've used the ceramic based spray paints on several minimum diameter tower launched rockets. I've had the best results with Dupli-Color brake caliper paint, but I suspect their other ceramic based paints are about the same. It is far less susceptible to both 'tower rash' and Mach heating (Mach 2+) than other paints I've tried and produces a very nice finish.

After reading about the coating linked to in the first post, it's hard to understand how well it would work on a rocket. I suppose you could use a spray bottle or even a gentle spray from a hose to spread it as described in the instructions. If anyone tests it out, let us know.


Tony
 

G_T

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Just be careful of spraying anything containing SiO2 at a fine enough particle size to use for finishes... Google silicosis. And if the particles are small enough, they can pass through the lungs and make it to the bloodstream.

We're in the early days of using nanoparticle tech. There are likely to be many problems that surface over the years as we get it figured out. There wasn't and may not be much regulation about it. It is a newish area of risk.

Not all that many years back there was at least one brand of popular shampoo that used nano plastic in the formulation. It worked very well as a shampoo, and added a little extra sheen to the hair. A little while later the problems with nano plastics started to be known, and that formulation was quietly dropped.

Lots of people and industries are still likely thinking of only chemical based risk (or what isn't regulated as a risk so they can get away with it) and not necessarily thinking that particle morphology can also cause unique risks to individuals or the environment.

Asbestos, for instance, isn't dangerous because of its chemical composition. It's dangerous because of its particle morphology. Ditto cotton, which many don't realize. Or to some extent the Aramid family of fibers. We've learned over the years that micro fibers can cause problems for the lungs if they are capable of hooking on or going deep enough they can't be brought back up with mucus.

mesothelioma.
Coal dust - black lung.
Cotton dust - brown lung.
Silicosis.
etc.
Unfortunately there is likely to be a long list of etc added over the coming years. Many industries take the approach that if it is not known to be unsafe (or in some cases, regulated) then it is ok to do it. So take care with any aerosol microparticle or particularly nanoparticle mix. Your HEPA filters might not be much good for the latter. And the resulting dust is going somewhere. It can be stirred back up when you are not wearing your filters.

I'm not trying to be alarming. Just realize that your safety is not necessarily the primary concern of the manufacturer of every product you might encounter. And they may not know. Your safety is up to you.

In testing for the safety of something, IIRC the gold standard was 7 generations of exposure and see what happens to the population. Most everything we are exposed to that humans make wasn't around 7 generations ago. We're just getting started with this experiment!

Most of the testing we have relates to what happens to short term or sudden exposure. LD50 values for instance. And unfortunately MSDS which used to be useful got lawyered over and now no longer provide much useful info in most cases. For those who don't know, at least in the US, an MSDS is required to be available for any manufactured chemical product.

Feel free to correct any misstatements I made!

Gerald
 

DarthMuffin

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I've put ceramic coats on several cars now, and do the front of my trailer too for bugs. Love it. I've used the turtle wax hybrid solutions ceramic spray on rockets too. It does make them very slick and holds up well. Haven't done tests for altitude but it certainly isn't hurting. Don't plan on touch-up painting it or even putting on decals afterwards unless you sand first!

I like Adams or Gtechniq for cars that I'll keep a while. The turtle wax goes on the camper, rockets, etc. It gets really good reviews and is probably 75% as durable as the high end coatings for 20% of the price.
 

prfesser

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Just be careful of spraying anything containing SiO2 at a fine enough particle size to use for finishes... Google silicosis. And if the particles are small enough, they can pass through the lungs and make it to the bloodstream.
Your concern about microscopic silica is well founded but...though I haven't found the MSDS for such products, the description seems to suggest that the SiO2 is formed after application, from a polymer contained in the product, rather than from nanosize silica contained in the product. I might be wrong. I don't think that nanosize silica would be of any particular benefit other than to thicken the solution.

If nanosize silica is present in the mixture it should not be a hazard until/unless the solution was dried and the silica makes it into the lungs after the fact. Airborne dry particles are the problem.

Best,
Terry
 

David Schwantz

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I use this stuff on everything, black parts, shiny plastic chrome parts and of course the paint. just spent the last 4 hours this morning polishng her up. In SE AL and wanted to get done beffore it gets hot agaaain. Just have the wheels lleft to do.
I do not sssee why you couldn't use this on rrrockets. I use something else as a sealant, but this will work great.
 

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