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cwbullet

Obsessed with Rocketry
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Today,

I was prepping for a launch for college and TARC teams when I read the weather report. I would fly if it only rained. It's lightning in those scattered thunderstorms that bother me.

Buzz - it can just be a bit shocking. Why fear electricity?
 
If it's a TRA launch you have to cease range activities when thunderstorms are within 10 miles.

I've seen, heard and felt launch rods when they've been...energized do to weather.

Tony
If it a Chuck Haislip launch, I am not on the field when it is a lot further than that.
 
I've felt my hair stand on end -twice- in thunderstorms, both while working at Cedar Point. The first, a lady was yelling at me while standing near the Magnum Roller Coaster and lightning struck the a lightning rod and weather equipment on top of it. The other time was a different season and I was taking shelter in the pump house for one of the pools. I'm not sure what near me was struck (could have been the same roller coaster) but it was loud.

I've heard lightning can strike up to 10 miles from a storm. I suppose if a storm blows up at a launch I'm at, just don't stand next to me and you'll be fine.
 
Once in the Sierras at about 8,000 feet I got trapped on the side of a mountain that was in a thunder cell. Anything metallic like an ice axe would get a blue glow and begin to buzz. The hair on our arms and head would stand up straight. The flash of lightening would be incredibly bright and the thunder had zero delay. The process would repeat over and over for the longest 30 minutes of my life. It was absolutely terrifying.
 
Once in the Sierras at about 8,000 feet I got trapped on the side of a mountain that was in a thunder cell. Anything metallic like an ice axe would get a blue glow and begin to buzz. The hair on our arms and head would stand up straight. The flash of lightening would be incredibly bright and the thunder had zero delay. The process would repeat over and over for the longest 30 minutes of my life. It was absolutely terrifying.
I spent the evening trapped inside my car while camping at a reservoir outside Mackay, ID. The storm moved in during the night. The first thunderclap woke me. I was sleeping open air. After 10 minutes I decided to get inside the car. For nearly 2 hours the storm raged around me. My car was not struck, the picnic table shelter where I had been sleeping was. My eyes and ears never had time to recover from one strike to the next. To say it was terrifying is an understatement!
 
I've felt my hair stand on end -twice- in thunderstorms, both while working at Cedar Point. The first, a lady was yelling at me while standing near the Magnum Roller Coaster and lightning struck the a lightning rod and weather equipment on top of it. The other time was a different season and I was taking shelter in the pump house for one of the pools. I'm not sure what near me was struck (could have been the same roller coaster) but it was loud.

I've heard lightning can strike up to 10 miles from a storm. I suppose if a storm blows up at a launch I'm at, just don't stand next to me and you'll be fine.
I seem to remember a shuttle hit by a storm cell 40km away.
 
Rocketry and storms don’t mix. I’m sure lightning is as happy with a 1010 rail as a tree. More happy, now I think about it.

I’ve seen people in ER and OR that have been struck by lightning. It isn’t pretty. Like a bullet there is an ‘entry’ burn, an ‘exit’ burn (usually in the feet) and carnage in-between.
 
I spent the evening trapped inside my car while camping at a reservoir outside Mackay, ID. The storm moved in during the night. The first thunderclap woke me. I was sleeping open air. After 10 minutes I decided to get inside the car. For nearly 2 hours the storm raged around me. My car was not struck, the picnic table shelter where I had been sleeping was. My eyes and ears never had time to recover from one strike to the next. To say it was terrifying is an understatement!
Makes one realize how small and insignificant we are in the face of Mother Nature.
 
I wonder whether the exhaust of a high-power rocket would ionize the air sufficiently to create an easier path for lightning. Don't want to find out. Unless I'm 10+ miles away.

I've seen footage of a rocket unrolling a spool of wire during its flight, to deliberately cause a lightning strike. I wanna be 20+ miles away from that.
 
Rocketry and storms don’t mix. I’m sure lightning is as happy with a 1010 rail as a tree. More happy, now I think about it.

I’ve seen people in ER and OR that have been struck by lightning. It isn’t pretty. Like a bullet there is an ‘entry’ burn, an ‘exit’ burn (usually in the feet) and carnage in-between.

What? You don't like sitting under a canopy with metal poles and launch pads with rails and rods in the center of an open field? That is a lot of lightning rods.
 
I wonder whether the exhaust of a high-power rocket would ionize the air sufficiently to create an easier path for lightning. Don't want to find out. Unless I'm 10+ miles away.

I've seen footage of a rocket unrolling a spool of wire during its flight, to deliberately cause a lightning strike. I wanna be 20+ miles away from that.
20+miles might be too close.
 
I wonder whether the exhaust of a high-power rocket would ionize the air sufficiently to create an easier path for lightning. Don't want to find out. Unless I'm 10+ miles away.
I'd assume the max temperature in a nozzle is well-known for many rocket motors.
 
I'd assume the max temperature in a nozzle is well-known for many rocket motors.
True; the temperature and composition of the exhaust can be estimated with Propep. Some of the species formed are ions that would increase electrical conductivity. I was wondering if those ions would be numerous enough, and persist long enough in the atmosphere, to create a more conductive path between rocket and ground. Like a 500 foot tall tower that's not terribly conductive.

Just ran Propep on a high-Zn-content propellant (like BlackJack or WL), and one of the exhaust products is zinc metal. That might be even more effective than ions.
 
True; the temperature and composition of the exhaust can be estimated with Propep. Some of the species formed are ions that would increase electrical conductivity. I was wondering if those ions would be numerous enough, and persist long enough in the atmosphere, to create a more conductive path between rocket and ground. Like a 500 foot tall tower that's not terribly conductive.

Just ran Propep on a high-Zn-content propellant (like BlackJack or WL), and one of the exhaust products is zinc metal. That might be even more effective than ions.
Wind and turbulence probably evens out and cools down temperature very quickly, so the volume that's hot enough (sufficiently ionized) would stay close behind the rocket. But it would still be interesting to know just how far behind, and for how long, the gaz is ionized.
 
About three inches, from my experiments on launch detection. ( My Falcon heavy model, with two E's and a G-70 was not lighting together. Composites are So much harder to light... So now I have an ignition detector for the composite motor that locks out the bp motors until the main is lit.
 
About three inches, from my experiments on launch detection. ( My Falcon heavy model, with two E's and a G-70 was not lighting together. Composites are So much harder to light... So now I have an ignition detector for the composite motor that locks out the bp motors until the main is lit.
Interesting! More details? I do have a story about an Atlas taken out by lightning. Prolly not the place.
 
Rub it in. I should contact a mod for that remark :)
Wait 'til July and then you can rub it in!

I was at one of the ROSCO/ICBM launches and the clouds started moving in pretty quickly. It was obvious to everyone that the launch was going to be over soon, so clean-up started. We were moving stuff back to the trailer when one of my buddies said my hair started standing up. I looked around and sure enough, people with longer hair had it fluff up. I felt my head and it was so strange. Clean-up mode got a lot faster for me at that point. I think I made it into the truck minutes before the storm hit. I don't recall any lightning, but I was scared to find out.

The closest I've ever been to a lightning strike was a tree 15 feet outside of the bedroom. I think we were in the living-room at the time, so maybe 30-50 feet, but it was the strangest thing. It seemed like right before the huge flash of light there was a pulse in my body (didn't hurt just like a quick puff), then everything went bright (it was at night) and then a huge Crack/BOOOOOM instantly. It was loud enough you felt it as much as heard it. Freaked us out. All of our expensive electronics were either unplugged (habit from my childhood) or on power strips. Regretfully, nothing on the phone line was protected by that connection and we had DSL, so lost 2 TV's and 2 motherboards for computers, the DSL modem, a router and the phones. It also killed one breaker in the electrical panel, but not sure why.

The biggest loss was the tree. It was a beautiful oak, probably 1.5ft in diameter that shaded the bedroom and was just a nice tree. Once the storm was over, we went outside and most of the bar on the tree had been blown off. Hoping it would live, we just let it be, but as time went on, it was obvious that it was not going to come back. It started dropping limbs, no leaves etc. and we had it taken down, as it was so close to the house that it was going to damage the roof if it kept dropping limbs.

Lightning is amazing. And scary.

Sandy.
 
Summer is already over by July:(
Wow. . . I need to get out more.

My wife and I went to Maine a handful of years ago and packed like we were in the south. I think it was June-ish and we got off the plane, walked out and realized we had made a tactical error. Shorts and t-shirts were not the plan of the day. Luckily, the various tourist shops along the trip knew that people who had never been there would need heavier cloths and the pricing wasn't too bad. We actually got some great coats that were both warm and water-proof. Added bonus is that we now can dress up as the Gordon's Fisherman for Halloween if desired.

A friend's father lives in MN and I see pictures from him from time to time. It is an amazingly beautiful place for a short time of the year. The whole idea of it taking 30 minutes to get to the store in the summer vs. 5 minutes in the winter was funny for me. He lives on one of the many lakes and once it freezes, he gets on the side-by-side and just drives across the lake, but when it isn't frozen, he has to drive around. . .

I was in California one August a while back and the vendor I was visiting apologized for being late, as I was sitting on the back of the rental van in the parking lot when he pulled up to let me in. He was sincerely, deeply pained at the difficulty he caused me, sitting there for half an hour at 85 deg and the gross humidity (probably 20% or something 'terrible' like that). I didn't have a drop of sweat on me and was enjoying the breeze. Back home it was the typical 95+ deg and 80% humidity. I literally laughed at him and told him to never head East in August if that weather was bad for him. Of all the craziness that is California, LA's weather is simply flawless from my perspective.

It is amazing what interesting and dynamic weather we have in this country and how it changes how people live their daily life so much. Going to any of the more extreme areas for a visit is absolutely eye opening.

Sandy.
 
It is funny how we become acclimatised to where we hang out. I was visiting Las Cruces NM last June and the locals were complaining about the high humidity. I think it was about 16%! For comparison we would normally get around 70% on similar days over here. We, of course, found the "high" humidity quite dry.
 
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