War?

[Steven]

looks like it's about time to get outta this thread.....

See what happens when one pushes the button? Oopski!

 

[DavidMcCann]

See what happens when one pushes the button? Oopski!

He had a pro38 delay on that ejection seat.

 

[Steven]

He had a pro38 delay on that ejection seat.

Well look on the bright side, he could have been upside down.

 

[Mushtang]

Staying the hell out of someone else's conflict sounds great and easy.

When they start using using chemical weapons on kids it's a different situation and no longer just a bunch of religious people killing each other over stupid beliefs. I wouldn't want us to let that continue to happen without us trying to eliminate their chemical weapon creation and delivery systems.

Turning our our backs on that would put us in a class of people I don't think we want to be.

 

[rharshberger]

Wow this thread went into no-no land real quick two of the most contentious subjects possible politics and religion.

 

[Steven]

Even the mods stepped in to give their two cents worth. Fascinating.

 

[Winston]

My wife just came back holding her phone and said several of relatives are being deployed as Trump has declared war on Syria.
I know he went after the leader of some terrorist group about a week ago. But I've nothing about him declaring war.
I've been watching Turner Classic Movies all day and sanding on rockets.
Any inlightenment on this?

No war, we're just rotating our inventory.

On this:

A Russian warship headed Friday to the area in the eastern Mediterranean where the two US Navy destroyers that launched 59 cruise missiles into Syria were stationed, according to a report. The frigate Admiral Grigorovich RFS-494 sailed through the Bosphorus Strait from the Black Sea, a US defense official told Fox News.

we all know what's going to happen... nothing. IMO, the only government in the world with a leader nutty enough to start a war with us is North Korea.

 

[Peartree]

Archaeology is a funny thing. It still uses SCIENTISTS to determine the outcome thorough interpretation of the evidence. See, science becomes a valid tool WHEN it finds a warm bed in the religious heart and the two can live happily ever after. Split the sheets and one wants nothing to do with the other for ever and ever after. "Science now bad". Go figure.

People who think the way that you describe certainly exist, but they just as certainly do not understand archaeology.

One of the very first things that they made very clear in the first five minutes, of our first archaeology class in seminary, was that archaeology does not, and cannot, PROVE that the Bible is true. Any attempt to do so is a misuse of the data. What archaeology does, is to provide information on how and where people lived at various times in the past. It can, occasionally, provide evidence for, or against, certain theories and can thus make those theories more, or less, plausible explanations for particular historical events. But proof? No.

 

[Peartree]

Wow this thread went into no-no land real quick two of the most contentious subjects possible politics and religion.

For the moment, it has not done either.

I realize that I'm parsing things pretty finely, but the discussion began, and for the most part has remained as, as discussion of world events. Religious themes have been interjected (some in an off topic and deliberate attempt to get the thread locked, I suspect) but no one had "taken the bait" and turned it into a religious discussion or argument.

So far, the thread has remained civil and mostly on topic. I doubt very much that it will continue to do so. Historical evidence of previous discussions on TRF suggest that the mods will eventually have to take some action, but as long as everyone remains civil, respectful, on topic, and stays away from comments that invite polarizing, or preachy arguments, I'm willing to let it continue.

 

[Steven]

I'm actually rather impressed as there hasn't been any name calling. I call it civil as well.

 

[markkoelsch]

I'm actually rather impressed as there hasn't been any name calling. I call it civil as well.

That is largely why we can have the thread remain open. Keep on topic, do not be insulting, and you can talk about things.

 

[CORZERO]

They've been killing each other for thousands of years. What makes any nation think they can actually change that? ...

It can't, but that's ok, because Middle Eastern conflicts are business opportunities. Period. No one really thinks US or other intervention will end Middle Eastern war. This is business, that's all. Our country will be dead and gone and camel jockeys will still be running around in the desert cutting peoples heads off. It's only more of an issue now than 150 years ago because we have instant world news at our fingertips and now everyone feels obligated to care about foreign issues simply because they are aware of them. Is the aphorism "mind your own business" just a thing of the past anymore? I think I recall Washington once warn of "foreign entanglements". Does none of this matter to anyone anymore? Of course not. Classical conditioning at its finest.

What pains me are those who carelessly overuse the first person plural "we" as if we're all on the same team when describing what should or should not be done about atrocities occurring six thousand miles away on the other side of the planet that have zero direct effect on them. You think the Middle East should be leveled? Great! Gather your family, pack you $h1T, grab a rifle and go fight. Just make sure you upload as much of the action as you can so people like me can be entertained from the comfort and safety we deserve by not dropping bombs on other people because we don't agree with how they live their lives.

Nothing's going to change the world...

 

[georgegassaway]

 

[OverTheTop]

It is a difficult multi-headed naga to wrangle. Maybe just provide humanitarian aid to whoever needs it. Maybe that would work.

The use of chemical weapons is particularly troubling though.

 

[captbk]

Then let the Russians take the refugees. They have certainly done most of the bombing. I'm all for Trumps ban on refugees from ANYWHERE.

 

[Zeus-cat]

Then let the Russians take the refugees. They have certainly done most of the bombing. I'm all for Trumps ban on refugees from ANYWHERE.

At least two of my grandparents came to this country as refugees. I wonder how many others here have refugee relatives in their not too distant past.

 

[DavidMcCann]

At least two of my grandparents came to this country as refugees. I wonder how many others here have refugee relatives in their not too distant past.

Lets see. Irish and Prussian background here..... yea screw refugees! It's so easy to say... But these aren't people who made bad choices in life, or are trying to game the system. They're people who need someplace to go, because there isn't anywhere. Homes gone... I mean seriously, imagine that for a second. everything, gone.

Who should take how many, and how we bring them here and what we do with them once here is a greater debate, sure. But I see no reason to lock down and not let anyone in. Perhaps if we climb off our high horse long enough to help some people out, they may not hate us as much.

 

[Woody's Workshop]

The reason the ban on refugees was put in place is because Obama brought in too many illegally, and some were using terrorists tactics against our populous almost right away.
One must also consider what would happen if a break down in infrastructure happens, like electrical.
As is, if we were suddenly expelled 120 years back in time electrically, most people couldn't cope. Rioting, looting, mass chaos, etc. Especially in the Big Cities.
One wouldn't know how to survive, and the country is no where large enough to support such an attempt at it's current population.
(We've done polluted almost all of clean water. Go to your closest above ground water source, would you drink it?)
We as a society have set ourselves up to fail with no back up plan. The loss of just one of the many things that sustains society would fail, social break down will happen almost immediately. What? No bars on your phone, oh geesh, your life is over!

We are over crowded as a world, which invites disputes. Which one's we choose to engage in Globally is left up to those we put in charge.
We either back that decision, or whine about every aspect about it.
Our society has been taught to speak their mind. So global disputes will continue to happen until the end of time.
2 people in a room by them selves for a month without outside contact that have been best friends for years...
Before the end of the month they will be having disputes. It's our human nature.
We are jealous, One wants what the other has, or better. One will cheat, lie, steal, be corrupted to get it.
Once the taste of power is felt, there is never enough. My way, I'll make it my way no matter what it takes.
Unfortunately for one who still believes in good honest ways, are used as a door mats until they finally retaliate.

I truly believe a populous reducing event needs to happen, man made or not.
Hell will be for those who lives through it.
It's until we can learn and advance enough to survive as a society during any event, will there be piece.
And an event is coming, and don't doubt it. We as a planet, the people just hasn't advanced far enough in intellect not to.
How many times have you said to yourself, "How do they live like that"?
Or, "I wish I had what they had"?
When one no long has the thought, "If that was me,..." and forces one's opinions on others.
Until those thoughts never happen in our tiny brains, there will be disputes.

So, lets think about those immigrants, they want the US schools to teach Syrian Law, our women to cover their faces, and let them beat their women as they see fit.
And when we try to impose our ways on them because we let them come here, they retaliate.
So a proper immigration process needs to be followed. Learn English, English Laws, what the consequences are if they break the law, etc.
Times are much different than when people came here in the 1800's and before.
There was enough land to give them to survive on their own. Those that could, did.
That just is not possible now. So comparing immigration even from 1945-1950 to today isn't comparing apples to apples.
When we take immigrants in today, they impose their ways on us and we are to accept it.
And we are to take care of them. Give them money, free education and free health care.
Why are is the US taxpayers responsible for them now? We never did it before.
If you came here, you made your way or you starved and went homeless, or got deported.
We have men and women that have served their nation without homes, jobs, health care. Don't they deserve it more?
We need to take care of US, the United States First.
If that includes attacking terrorists from planing attacks on us from over seas, so be it. I support it.
All the political crap needs to just go away...Period.

 

[captbk]

Yeah I get the whole "we all came from refugees" as my grandparents were, but the population is bustin at the seams. Not to mention the strain on our already fragile economy. I have worked along side illegals and immigrants all through a 30+ year construction career and I can tell you first hand that the "natives" resented them equally. They ALL take food off out of the mouths of your children. I think we should look out for 13.1 million hungry American children. The more we take in the more resources they take from us all.
And yes I have had it happen first hand to me when a crew of illegals got a framing job over my all white American crew!!

 

[DavidMcCann]

Refugees would be legal, so I don't see the point in bringing up examples of illegal workers.

I dont think our our population is saturated. Maybe of lazy people who don't work, but we need more workers.

Ive got five kids, and no fears about them having to compete for jobs. It'll keep them on their toes.

 

[Dave A]

Yeah I get the whole "we all came from refugees" as my grandparents were, but the population is bustin at the seams. Not to mention the strain on our already fragile economy. I have worked along side illegals and immigrants all through a 30+ year construction career and I can tell you first hand that the "natives" resented them equally. They ALL take food off out of the mouths of your children. I think we should look out for 13.1 million hungry American children. The more we take in the more resources they take from us all.
And yes I have had it happen first hand to me when a crew of illegals got a framing job over my all white American crew!!

Wow, couldn't have said that better. It will be nice to get more secure borders. The thing that bothers me: Although I do feel sorry for so many destitute people south of the border and I have no problem them emigrating to US legally.
Central and South America are some of the richest masses in natural resources. Dictators and corrupt governments have squandered it and left the constituients with barely enough to survive. There are enough resources for all that live there. Using it wisely to help their citizens takes change and it would not be easy.

 

[captbk]

The reason I brought up the illegals was to just to make a point about competition for resources/jobs.

 

[DavidMcCann]

The reason I brought up the illegals was to just to make a point about competition for resources/jobs.

Yea, I can see that point. Though typically illegals are willing to work for less than even immigrants will, and without such nice things like breaks and safety equipment.

 

[Woody's Workshop]

I came to work one day and I was running a rather large , tear off reroof project. It was over $1 mil.
And I was the only one to show up. When I called the office, they said my entire Hispanic crew was let go because their SSN's were fake.
There I stood, all alone on the roof when the owner's rep came up for his morning visit.
His first question was, "Where is everyone"?
His second question was, "When am I going to get my roof"?
These guys had been with me for over a year and worked their butt off.
I went through over 50 people in the next 3 weeks, most leaving at lunch and never coming back.
Another crew eventually took the job over and I stayed on as manager because no one else could do that system.
Like I said above, we need a immigration program that works.
On the up side, they all paid taxes, fed, state, FDIC, local, and never did tax returns so the government kept it all.
And as illegals, they didn't even apply for any benefits.
What does this prove? Some jobs are just not good enough for most Americans.
They would rather flip burgers for $9 an hour than be on a construction project for the same wage.
Because it's just easier.
Me, I loved going some place different all the time. See new things. Huge cranes, tall buildings, etc.
It was hard work, but it didn't bother me. I liked working my way up to manager and being in charge of multi-million dollar projects.

 

[Steven]

I see an issue here where being "illegal" automatically claims immoral status. You do realize how many legal people are here who have created the most heinous acts in our nation's history one could imagine don't you? So make everyone legal. You think that will create a moral compass within folks? Nope.

 

[Steven]

Another thing is that you want to become isolationists by building a wall but you'll jump right into other people's business several thousand miles away believing you have immunity from such barriers yourselves. Again, you all need to get on the same page with this wall and isolationist agenda. You want a wall? I want to stay the hell out of everyone else's crap. Deal? In the meantime, stop cherry picking.

 

[Dave A]

If you don't like the immigration laws then vote people in to change them. Sounds like we're cherry picking the laws we want enforce. This is a great thread for the MSNBC website.

 

[Steven]

If you don't like the immigration laws then vote people in to change them. Sounds like we're cherry picking the laws we want enforce. This is a great thread for the MSNBC website.

Really not the issue here. If you want to keep foreigners out of this country, then stop running into foreign countries and deciding things for them as well. We don't like them over here but have no problem going over there with our almighty baton of Americanized justice.

 

[Dave A]

Really not the issue here. If you want to keep foreigners out of this country, then stop running into foreign countries and deciding things for them as well. We don't like them over here but have no problem going over there with our almighty baton of Americanized justice.

I can agree I do not like us being "The World Police". However, I have a problem with gassing children, beheading innocents and blowing up churches. I don't mind surgical strikes that kill the worst of the worst with little or no boots on the ground.

 

[Steven]

I can agree I do not like us being "The World Police". However, I have a problem with gassing children, beheading innocents and blowing up churches. I don't mind surgical strikes that kill the worst of the worst with little or no boots on the ground.

Do you believe beheading is a new thing? You think blowing up crap is new? I don't understand your thinking here. These tactics are centuries old. Where have you been?