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KenECoyote said:
Not really?

Same sample size assumed here and a very good example of what I was talking about...

View attachment 584835
Click to expand...

Wanna make a bet that it's not a normal distribution? I bet it's skewed towards the low end... but there may be a good reason for that.

They don't say anything about 401K's, IRA's, real estate equity, or investment accounts, so the amount that people have in their savings accounts does not necessarily reflect their total financial situation. It only reflects what they have that's immediately liquid. You don't WANT to have more than maybe $10K in your savings account... if you do, you're throwing money away because they pay such piddling interest. $5K isn't a terrible number, as long as you have some other resources to draw on if you really need it.

Some older people don't trust investments, so they stick their money in the bank, who will gladly pay them almost nothing for the privilege of investing it for them and keeping the profits. Those are the ones with the $40K savings accounts.

P.S. I'm done with this thread hijack... I really do like the older VW's. :)
 
cerving said:
Wanna make a bet that it's not a normal distribution? I bet it's skewed towards the low end... but there may be a good reason for that.

They don't say anything about 401K's, IRA's, real estate equity, or investment accounts, so the amount that people have in their savings accounts does not necessarily reflect their total financial situation. It only reflects what they have that's immediately liquid. You don't WANT to have more than maybe $10K in your savings account... if you do, you're throwing money away because they pay such piddling interest. $5K isn't a terrible number, as long as you have some other resources to draw on if you really need it.

Some older people don't trust investments, so they stick their money in the bank, who will gladly pay them almost nothing for the privilege of investing it for them and keeping the profits. Those are the ones with the $40K savings accounts.

P.S. I'm done with this thread hijack... I really do like the older VW's. :)
Click to expand...
I worked with a lot if market data and our tables usually included both mean and median for anything tracked and so I often saw which types of questions had big disparities between the two.

But agreed, this side discussion was to hopefully clarify possibly misleading info.

I also love VW vans and beetles - as a child I spent hours waiting for my mom at her hair salon and the only thing to read of interest to me were JCWitney (?) catalogs showing all the beetle upgrades available.

I almost bought a rusted VW camper about 7 years back, but the guy wanted $6k for it and I decided that was too much when the side door fell off. It came with a spare engine though.

So I missed the boat (van?) and would love this new one, but it's too pricey (no EV discount hurts) and I'd rather have it as an ICE or hybrid version.
 
kuririn said:
I think the old beetles had a 6 volt electrical system.
And 40 something horsepower.
Click to expand...
36 HP and 6 volts, with a generator instead of alternator. The lights dimmed when you idled... although you could barely see the taillights anyway.

Side Note: The first car that Subaru imported into the US was the Subaru 360, it was basically a 2/3-sized Beetle, with a 25 HP 2-cylinder engine. Consumer Reports rated it "Not Acceptable" on general principle... I actually drove one once, and I totally agree with that assessment. I drove it up a hill and thought I was going to die.
 
Older brother was my roommate in college for 1.5 years. Had a 66 beetle with 6v electrical. What a PITA. And the oil-filled air filter was a great idea for efficiency but messy as hell. The feels-like-it heat and defroster... heat came in and windows defrosted when they felt like it. Still, it could get us up Cresson Mountain on a horribly snowy day.

About 20 years ago I bought a 72 Bus. Bought new tires, pulled the engine and had the valves worked on, new valve seats etc. Changed from 2 carbs to a single, not as efficient but easier to work on. Took it out for its first drive with the girls in the back...and dropped a valve seat after about five miles. :( :mad: Sold it to a friend who was much better at refurbishing than I am. He gave it to his daughter for a beginning-college present. She suddenly got LOTS of new friends!:)
 
cerving said:
The first car that Subaru imported into the US was the Subaru 360, it was basically a 2/3-sized Beetle, with a 25 HP 2-cylinder engine.
Click to expand...
Another car magazine stated that it would cure all problems caused by automobiles- the 360 could not go fast enough to dent itself if it got into an accident, its engine wasn't large enough to create any air pollution, you couldn't race anyone even if you tried.

I've never been a fan of the Beetle or Microvan. My father was in the car repair business for over 60 years and I started out in the musclecar era being interested in fast cars. After a few rounds of gas crisis I ended up with a Datsun 1600cc pickup. I was finally rescued from that by a VW Scirocco, I did like that car and the Jetta that I had after it.
 
Dealers will do it anyway, just to get the list price. Last time I went shopping for a new car, the dealer tried to add a $3,000 "dealer margin adjustment" to a $18,000 car. I told him that if he wanted to sell me the car that the first thing he needed to do was to get rid of it... which of course he did after consulting with his "Sales Manager". Crap like that is why people are buying cars online now...
 
Funkworks said:
Contrary to what VW wants, local dealers may try to mark up the van's price.

https://www.teslarati.com/volkswagen-id-buzz-price-markup-america/
Click to expand...
cerving said:
Dealers will do it anyway, just to get the list price. Last time I went shopping for a new car, the dealer tried to add a $3,000 "dealer margin adjustment" to a $18,000 car. I told him that if he wanted to sell me the car that the first thing he needed to do was to get rid of it... which of course he did after consulting with his "Sales Manager". Crap like that is why people are buying cars online now...
Click to expand...
The first time I saw a "Market Adjustment" on the price of a car was when I was looking at a 1986 Honda Accord. This was over and above the MSRP.
Gives the dealer more wriggle room on the negotiations with the buyer.
Total bullcrap.
 
It'll be interesting to see how the selling price for the ID.Buzz compares to the current selling prices for vintage Type 4's like the 21 and 23-window variants that are (or were) trading in the 6-figure range...

https://www.mecum.com/lots/300045/1959-volkswagen-deluxe-23-window-bus/
Was at an Acura dealer the other day looking at a car on their used lot (Volvo wagon), but sitting in the showroom was a new eye-searing red Acura NSX Type S. I want to say that the window sticker reflected $186K, but one of the sales staff said they were holding out, having already been offered $325K. Mind boggling, and of questionable moral character IMO (I know, I know, supply and demand)
 
cerving said:
Last time I went shopping for a new car, the dealer tried to add a $3,000 "dealer margin adjustment"
Click to expand...
Car dealers, at least most of them, are morally questionable or just plain profiteering depending on your viewpoint. I prefer not to do business with the ones like this which makes it difficult when buying a car. I don't buy cars very often though. I was shopping a few years ago, the first time in the age of things like cars.com so I was doing extensive internet searching. I found dealers with average prices and some dealers with really good prices. One thing I noticed was that the dealers with really good prices were advertising the same vehicles for sale for a long time. I determined that the prices were probably not real, they were likely adding more to the price during negotiations. I started reading reviews on dealers and after reading a lot I could find a few people that complained about prices that didn't match online advertisements. So those dealers you know to avoid. There is plenty of evidence that the online dealers can be even bigger scumbags with buyers not getting their vehicles registered for many months after purchasing. Various states have sued some of these companies and have even suspended their dealer licenses. So you have to do a lot of searching to find the few dealers that are trustworthy and buy from them. I bought a vehicle 3 years ago, I found a dealer with advertised price, the dealer honored the price and we even negotiated a bit down from there, I drove it home.
 
kuririn said:
This was over and above the MSRP.
Gives the dealer more fake wriggle room on the negotiations with the buyer.
Total bullcrap.
Click to expand...
Fixed that for you.

It’s evolved to a point where the “price” of a car is almost moot.

They’re as much a finance company as a retailer, and agreeing on a sale price is only the beginning of negotiations. The real money is made on the back end of the sale, don’t let your guard down.
 
tsmith1315 said:
It’s evolved to a point where the “price” of a car is almost moot.
They’re as much a finance company as a retailer, and agreeing on a sale price is only the beginning of negotiations. The real money is made on the back end of the sale, don’t let your guard down.
Click to expand...
If you're financing the car then it may not matter, but the buyer should still be informed. Years ago we were buying a new car, my wife got a loan commitment from our bank before we went to the dealer. The dealer proposed their financing which was 0.05% higher interest than the best we could get from our bank so we went with the dealer for convenience. If a person didn't know what interest rate they could get elsewhere the dealer could take advantage of them.
The biggest problem with dealer financing is that the salesman will start selling the car based on the monthly payment vs. the price of the car and then it is easier for them to hide price markups and such in the sales price. Unless you review the documents carefully and understand what you are looking at you might not find the $3000 they add in for fancy wax on the pain and nitrogen in the tires. There is a reason the places that sell the cars are called "stealerships".
 
I’ve watched a few review videos on the ID.buzz. It seems like a nice vehicle, but it’s a lot more like a modern mini-van than an older VW minibus or Vanagon.

The older buses made great campers, and there were two main things that made it possible. One was that you could move easily from the front seats all the way to the back without getting out of the vehicle. There was a gap between the front seats that made it possible to walk from the front to the middle row, and then a gap in the 2-seat middle row on the side with the sliding door that let you walk to the rear row. The ID.buzz doesn’t have that.

And the second thing is that the middle row of seats was very easy to remove completely. For my Vanagon, all you had to do was remove 4 bolts to take out the middle row, and that created a ton of space. The Buzz doesn’t have that.

So I don’t see the ID.buzz making a great camper.

There is another feature that this electric vehicle seems to lack that would be great for camping and outdoor fun. That is a good vehicle-to-load inverter outlet on the outside of the vehicle, like the F-150 Lightning has. With the Ford, you can run a construction worksite using the vehicle‘s electrical outlets. That would also be a great feature for setting up an electric campsite with lighting, refrigeration, cooking appliances, entertainment, etc. A camping vehicle with external 120V outlets would be awesome.
 

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