Vrc-xii Rocket Camp!!!

[n3tjm]

Already e-mailed him asking for a change, but told him I need to find out if I can redo the runs. I want to have the files anyway, so when I get the go ahead, I can continue without waiting.

His results were around average, so I don't think resubmission will affect the results that much.

Anyone object to his resubmission?

 

[PunkRocketScience]

I have no objections.

I agree with Bob's logic. I got DQ'd last contest, but I'm a veteran that made a dumb mistake. We don't want to scare away new people from these contests, so I don't mind giving someone new another shot at something that might have been caught at the time of the inital design submittal. Especially if he (or she, thought I don't think we have any women flying with us this time) wasn't even close on the landing speed.

 

[n3tjm]

I do not sim the entries until the contest starts. The only thing I do is check to see if the entries are valid from the design standpoint.

 

[PunkRocketScience]

Originally posted by n3tjm
I do not sim the entries until the contest starts. The only thing I do is check to see if the entries are valid from the design standpoint.

Don't take my reply as negative. I wasn't trying to say that it was anything you did wrong, just that it was something that might have been noticed on the sims that had been submitted by the contestant, not necessarily should have been caught.

 

[n3tjm]

I didn't take it as negative. Was just saying that to clarify what I look for when I get the entries and what I dson't look for.

 

[PunkRocketScience]

Glad to hear that. The last thing I want to do is make enemies here. Especially with the person who is the judge!

Did you get the entries back with the new 'chutes yet? I am really going crazy to see results!

 

[n3tjm]

Not yet . I got the second event scored but I need to wait to see what this gentleman does . (event 1 has been submitted, but it shows the DQ so if he does respond, I have to change that too).

Delays Delays Delays

 

[EMRR]

I'll try to get to posting in the next day or so... hang on. Got busy again.

 

[n3tjm]

Got a reply. He said its his fault, he had it set to mps, not fps and didn't notice it. He said use what he sent, but I replied giving him a chance to make an adjustment. That's an honest mistake, and I don't want to knock him out over an honest mistake.

EMRR, please wait till I resubmit before posting the results from event 1.

Also, I got event 2 done and working on 3. Event three has some interesting results

My goal is to get everything done this week.

 

[n3tjm]

Contestant gave me his corrections and I reran his sims. I will be submitting events 1 (again), 2 and 3 today . 4 and 5 will be done by Friday

 

[PunkRocketScience]

Hopefully Nick will have the results posted soon!

 

[n3tjm]

I will send him the results to post, then send him the graphics later. The graphics take a lot of time to do because I have to fix all the decals on the entries that used them.

 

[PunkRocketScience]

Sorry to steal the thunder here, Nick and Doug.... but Nick has started posting the results!

I'd like to offer my thanks to Bob Cox. It was through studying his designs from past contests for event number one that allowed me to place where I did. I'd love to see this design go in real life! That's an awful lot of altitude on a C6-7!

 

[teflonrocketry1]

Todd - I forgot about BOB'S rocket designs with fins on an extended boom; is that what you used?

I noticed that the top 2 designs in event 2 broke Mach 1 (1116.437 ft/sec). I will have to revise my thinking, since it really might be possible to break Mach 1 with black powder motors!

Doug or Nick - Any idea of when the other events are going to be posted? Is Jim Flis going to announce the winner of event #3?

Bruce S. Levison, NAR #69055

 

[PunkRocketScience]

Hey Bruce-

Nice to see that you are training your apprentice well! He got you in event 1! Give him my congrats!

The design of Bob's that I learned the most from was The Lil' Pink Rocket of Zeus. Really tricky way of doing the nose cone....but with my own tweaks. For some reason, flattening out the front of a conical cone seems to allow for substantially more altitude, but it slows down the max. speed... one of those weird Rocksim quirks...

See you for events 3-5! Don't know how well I did with number3, and 4 and 5 are a bit more of luck as to the amount of wind....

 

[n3tjm]

Originally posted by teflonrocketry1
Todd - I forgot about BOB'S rocket designs with fins on an extended boom; is that what you used?

I noticed that the top 2 designs in event 2 broke Mach 1 (1116.437 ft/sec). I will have to revise my thinking, since it really might be possible to break Mach 1 with black powder motors!

Doug or Nick - Any idea of when the other events are going to be posted? Is Jim Flis going to announce the winner of event #3?

Bruce S. Levison, NAR #69055

Event 3 is waiting on a file change from one of the new people. He is usally quick with e-mail response, but did not get one over the weekend so I am giving him a couple more days. The last two I will start working on today.

 

[chalinaty]

Just wondering....
I placed 5th in event 1 and received 3 points. In event 2, my 5th place finish only earned me 2 points, while the 6th place finisher earned 3 points!?! Am I missing something?
Thanks!

 

[n3tjm]

Originally posted by chalinaty
Just wondering....
I placed 5th in event 1 and received 3 points. In event 2, my 5th place finish only earned me 2 points, while the 6th place finisher earned 3 points!?! Am I missing something?
Thanks!

Typo. Forgot to adjust for a correction. It will be fixed

Got the updated files from the person I am waiting on. Event three will be submitted today.

Off to take a nap

 

[EMRR]

Pics for event 1 and 2 posted
Corrected event 2 posted
Need to add all the bonuses and info up top
Event 3 later today.

Nick

 

[teflonrocketry1]

Nick,

When you click on my design for event 2, it appears but it doesn't "enlarge".

Bruce S. Levison, NAR #69055

 

[BobCox]

Originally posted by PunkRocketScience
Sorry to steal the thunder here, Nick and Doug.... but Nick has started posting the results!

I'd like to offer my thanks to Bob Cox. It was through studying his designs from past contests for event number one that allowed me to place where I did. I'd love to see this design go in real life! That's an awful lot of altitude on a C6-7!

You're welcome.

I was looking at your design. (For those who haven't seen it, it is basically a long cylindrical nose cone with a blunt tip, followed by just enough body tube to hold the engine and fins.) I think you've uncovered a limitation of RockSim, kind of like Chan Steven's negative-drag fins. Apparently, RockSim assigns drag based on the surface area of a body tube, but does not assign drag to the "Base length" section of a nose cone. By replacing most of the body tube with a comparable amount of dragless nose cone base, you eliminated 63% of the drag.

 

[PunkRocketScience]

Hi Bob-

Thanks for the explanation of what is going on with this one... Here's a pic for those of you who can't picture it...

I gotta see what I can do if I stick a set of Chan's fins on this thing!

 

[PunkRocketScience]

Originally posted by EMRR
Pics for event 1 and 2 posted
Corrected event 2 posted
Need to add all the bonuses and info up top
Event 3 later today.

Soon? (Sorry if that sounds grumpy...)

 

[n3tjm]

Relax my friend . This contest is a lot of work for judge and webmaster. Was going to finish 4 today, but having neck problems and had to go to the doctor. So that took all the time I had today. Try to get that done tomorrow. Event 5 should be a lot easier for me to judge since it does not require any special tools.

Who designed this anyway? Oh. I did

 

[BobCox]

Originally posted by n3tjm
Relax my friend . This contest is a lot of work for judge and webmaster. ...

Who designed this anyway? Oh. I did

Doug,
I tried to warn you about making it so difficult for the judge.

BTW, Happy Birthday!

 

[PunkRocketScience]

Originally posted by n3tjm
Relax my friend .

Hehe... Sorry! Way too much coffee!!! It seems that my entire life works at warp speed sometimes....

 

[BobCox]

Originally posted by teflonrocketry1
I noticed that the top 2 designs in event 2 broke Mach 1 (1116.437 ft/sec). I will have to revise my thinking, since it really might be possible to break Mach 1 with black powder motors!

By bashing together the best features from Bruce and Todd's designs, it is possible to exceed 1500 ft/sec (in RockSim). I'm not sure that you could do it in real life.

 

[BobCox]

Originally posted by PunkRocketScience
For some reason, flattening out the front of a conical cone seems to allow for substantially more altitude, but it slows down the max. speed... one of those weird Rocksim quirks...

RockSim treats drag coefficients differently at different speeds. Near Mach 1, several things change. I suspect (but have not confirmed), that changing the nose shape might increase the drag near Mach 1 thus limiting the maximum speed, while at the same time reducing the drag at subsonic speed where most of the altitude gain occurs, during the coast phase.

 

[teflonrocketry1]

Originally posted by BobCox
By bashing together the best features from Bruce and Todd's designs, it is possible to exceed 1500 ft/sec (in RockSim). I'm not sure that you could do it in real life.

What parts of each design would you use?

I was thinking of building my design to fly through Mach on a stack of BP. The problem is, how do I determine the ultimate speed the flight reaches?

Bruce S. Levison, NAR #69055

 

[BobCox]

Originally posted by teflonrocketry1
What parts of each design would you use?

1) I started with Todd's 2-stage design (just because I happened to have it open). Like his rocket for event 1, it has a short body, a long nose cone, and stubby trapezoidal fins.
2) After noting the performance that you got from a 3rd stage, I replicated Todd's second stage. Both booster used D12-0's.
3) Then I shrunk the upper stage to use an A10-3T like yours.
4) I replaced the parachute with a streamer.
5) With the smaller motor in the top stage, the required amount of nose weight to make the top stage stable went way down.
6) With the lighter top stage, the booster stages were no longer stable, so I increased the fin span and swept the fins back farther.

I was thinking of building my design to fly through Mach on a stack of BP. The problem is, how do I determine the ultimate speed the flight reaches?

Isn't it displayed in the flight summary list?