# VK Rifle Bullets

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#### dhbarr

##### Amateur Professional
Looks fairly similar to what GS Custom or Peregrine have been putting out for several years.

Keep meaning to get some loaded for 6mm BR and take a peek

#### markkoelsch

##### Well-Known Member
They should have a really high ballistic coefficient so they should be good for reaching out and touching things at a distance&#128522;

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
They should have a really high ballistic coefficient so they should be good for reaching out and touching things at a distance&#128522;
Problem will be the necessity for a fast rate of twist barrel, and getting them to fit a magazine, unless one is single loading them. Most likely these will be used predominantly by benchrest shooters and tactical shooters as they will also be fairly spendy bullets.
Without seeing the specs, I wonder if the BC gains will be enough to offset the cost vs a VLD bullet.

#### markkoelsch

##### Well-Known Member
Those are good questions. I am positive they will not fit magazines, and that they are aimed at benchrest or other precision long range rifles. Almost all of these rifles are single shot.

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
Those are good questions. I am positive they will not fit magazines, and that they are aimed at benchrest or other precision long range rifles. Almost all of these rifles are single shot.
That was my read as well, they are a specialized bullet targeted at a small group.

#### dhbarr

##### Amateur Professional
That was my read as well, they are a specialized bullet targeted at a small group.
Ba-dum-tsh!

#### dhbarr

##### Amateur Professional
Couldn't resist.
But seriously, if you get a chance to fire a benchrest rifle w/ properly tuned loads, take it.

I'm not the greatest shot in the world, but reaching out and touching a 2in target at 600yds; or a .1xx 5-group at 200 yards is a -lot- of fun.

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
But seriously, if you get a chance to fire a benchrest rifle w/ properly tuned loads, take it.

I'm not the greatest shot in the world, but reaching out and touching a 2in target at 600yds; or a .1xx 5-group at 200 yards is a -lot- of fun.
I have (though I am not a benchrest competitor), I currently own a Stolle Panda Long action that is in need of a new barrel, it was originally barrelled in 6mm BR. I was an avid varmint hunter and still get out occasionally to pop prairie pooches in Montana or ground squirrels and rock chucks closer to home. Eventually I would like to fit the Panda with a new Krieger barrel in a good long range calibre like 6.5-284 Norma. I also have a number of accurized varmint caliber guns (bedded, triggers, faced and trued action). Thats all part of the reason why these style bullets I dont find too exciting unless they offer a significant long range advantage vs cost over a VLD, they probably will shine in the over 1000 yard shooter group though.

#### bobkrech

##### Well-Known Member
There's so much hype in the shooting sports business it's sometimes hard to know what's real or Memorex. While it's satisfying to see that bullet manufacturers are finally producing bullets in shapes know to produce the lowest drag for decades in the aerospace industry, a question is that while theoretical calculations are nice, will the BC be as claimed once the bullet has left the bore? The engraving of the rifling into the bullet will perturb the smooth surface and certainly reduce the ballistic coefficient somewhat. Only radar or differential TOA trajectory measurements can provide the real BC of a projectile. Hornady claims to use Doppler radar to obtain the BC of their VLD bullets in flight, but most manufacturer's don't.

Patents are designed to promote innovation and to bring new technology to the market place. It grants exclusive right to the grantee to have a protected market for up to 20 years, so it is market driven. If the market is large, then a patent is quite valuable, but if the market is small, it's only good for the ego.....
I'll speculate that the application is a marketing move to get a one or two year edge on their competitors. I'm not sure what Warner's market share is, or how big the market is, but it's a good and inexpensive advertising move that allows them to mark the box with "patent pending"........

I'm not sure that a patent will be issued on the basis of this application. I believe that using a LD profile on a long range bullet is an obvious thing to do by someone skilled in the art..... By patent rules if it's obvious to someone skilled in the art, it is not patentable...... But that doesn't mean that a patent will not be granted...... Patents are usually good for small niche companies in a high volume specialty market, but if it effects a competitor's business significantly, and the competitor has money, I believe the patent could be successfully challenged and nullified if initially granted.

#### Woody's Workshop

##### Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Not to jump off track here,
But has anyone else seen "THIS"?

#### Banzai88

##### Lvl 1,Wallet....Destroyed
TRF Supporter
Not to jump off track here,
But has anyone else seen "THIS"?
These are garbage designed to separate you from your money.

#### MClark

##### Well-Known Member
Extreme penetration, shoot through walls, kill your neighbors.

#### bobkrech

http://www.lehighdefense.com/ markets the Extreme Penetrator and the Extreme Defense bullets and ammunition. They are monolithic solid copper bullet that makes a larger than usual wound channel with a repeatable penetration depth. There's abundance evidence that unlike a number of exotic bullets, these bullets work well and as advertised. Their performance in a .380 auto is equivalent or superior to a conventional 9mm. The bigger question is do you need that performance and are you willing to pay $1.50 a round for it. #### rharshberger ##### Well-Known Member http://www.lehighdefense.com/ markets the Extreme Penetrator and the Extreme Defense bullets and ammunition. They are monolithic solid copper bullet that makes a larger than usual wound channel with a repeatable penetration depth. There's abundance evidence that unlike a number of exotic bullets, these bullets work well and as advertised. Their performance in a .380 auto is equivalent or superior to a conventional 9mm. The bigger question is do you need that performance and are you willing to pay$1.50 a round for it.
Honestly Bob I am with you on this. I only use the pricey "performance" bullets in mine or my wife's carry gun because mine or someone else lives are possibly dependent on the reliability/functionality. As for the .380 to 9mm equivalency, I believe that is strictly of value to someone who wants to carry a small frame firearm and still get larger gun performance therefore the extra price is probably worth it, these "premium performance" rounds are definitely not plinking ammo, the Lehigh Defense ammo is also NOT a good ammo for CQB as they require hydraulic pressure to function and will easily penetrate walls without breaking up. Lehigh definitely has a nice website for marketing purposes though.

#### Lowpuller

##### Well-Known Member
The real deal were Black Talon bullets. Rumored to penetrate kevlar, although denied by the manufacturer, but for some reason they disappeared from the market.

#### rharshberger

##### Well-Known Member
The real deal were Black Talon bullets. Rumored to penetrate kevlar, although denied by the manufacturer, but for some reason they disappeared from the market.
Black Talons ability to pierce kevlar was misinformation spread by those with no knowledge (anti-gun crowd) of what the bullets actual design did. The Black Talon (along with Golden Sabres and a couple of other bullets) were high expansion rate bullets not penetrators, they were designed to be more lethal than regular hollow points. Bullet lethality generally goes down with higher penetration, in order to make a bullet penetrate farther it is necessary to limit expansion. Black Talon ammo is still around, however it no longer has black bullets, over the years the name has changed several times, Winchester Fail Safe is the hunting ammo version, Win SXT, Win Ranger LE, and the current Win PDX1 are all the basic Black Talon bullet design. The rifle ammo could probably have pierced a kevlar vest simply due to the velocity and construction of the bullet which was designed for heavy game animals, especially at the time the rounds were introduced as most bullet resistant vests were not rated for rifle caliber protection.

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#### MClark

##### Well-Known Member
The Kevlar penetrating bullets are KTW (Teflon coated) and Arcane (French, pointy bronze)

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