VICTORY!!!

[MysticalRockets]

https://www.rocketryplanet.com/images/pdf/ATFE-03-16-09.pdf

 

[sunward]

4 pages of victory. Sweet.

 

[Microspeed]

Wow!!!

It's not April 1st, is it?

Though, I do believe a new NAR/TRA holiday could be created...

 

[DRAGON64]

Bring back the G33!! and any other reload lost in the last 9-years due to APCP regulation.

You listening Gary?

 

[sandman]

...WOW!

Is anybody besides me suprised...I mean not the decision but, I mean at this time...

I just read it and ya really don't need to be a lawyer. It seems pretty darn clear!

 

[Mike Di Venti]

I'm happy too,
but did anyone see the footnote at the bottom of page three?

 

[evil ed]

DING DONG! THE WITCH IS DEAD!!!






for now.

 

[Microspeed]

I'm happy too,
but did anyone see the footnote at the bottom of page three?

Ew...

So, what exactly would that mean for us?

 

[Fuddrucker]

I am curious as to what this means exactly. Does this just cover motors? What about Igniters and e-matches?

Guess we should be hearing from Tripoli and NAR for the official answer soon.

...Fudd

 

[troj]

I am curious as to what this means exactly. Does this just cover motors? What about Igniters and e-matches?

It only applies to APCP, as stated in the following from the order

ORDERED that the defendant's decision to classify APCP as an explosive under 18 U.S.C. § 841(d) is VACATED

-Kevin

 

[CTulanko]

I agree Sandman!!! Very clearly defined and well written. Fudd...this means that we will be able to purchase High Power motors without having to file for a LEUP or storage. I imagine it will include State and Local regulations as well, since they most likely need to abide by the federal ruling.

Shipping, however, may still be deemed as hazardous by DOT, as they have their own authority, but who knows if this will change due to the ruling. I am waiting for the big guns at TRA and the NAR to post a final note on the ruling, alogn with its implications, as well as the possiblility of relief from court costs and any punitive damages we may receive. That would be nine years worth, enough to maybe buy an east coast and west coast national flying field??? Who knows, but the possibilities may be endless.

 

[Fuddrucker]

It only applies to APCP, as stated in the following from the order



-Kevin

Bummer. Thats what I thought but I had my hopes up. Guess I still need a LEUP to have an igniter in my posession.

...Fudd

 

[RandyM]

Bummer. Thats what I thought but I had my hopes up. Guess I still need a LEUP to have an igniter in my posession.

...Fudd

Just make you own for your own use.

 

[Uncrichie]

Bummer. Thats what I thought but I had my hopes up. Guess I still need a LEUP to have an igniter in my posession.

...Fudd

Also for your Black Powder!

 

[bobkrech]

...Shipping, however, may still be deemed as hazardous by DOT, as they have their own authority, but who knows if this will change due to the ruling...

Shipping rules under DOT and the UN should not be effected by this ruling.

APCP will still be considered hazardous for transportation and a hazmat fee will be charged.

In reality the hazards associated with, and the emergency response to, an event involving a Division 1.3/1.4 low explosive propellant material and a Division 4.1/4.2 flammable solid/spontaneous combustible material are similar. All will deflagrate (burn rapidly) if you abuse them, but they will not explode if you don't confine them.

Bob

 

[BR549]

WooHoo, great news indeed.

And I second the resurrection of the G33.

 

[Pem Tech]

...WOW!

Is anybody besides me suprised...I mean not the decision but, I mean at this time...

I just read it and ya really don't need to be a lawyer. It seems pretty darn clear!

Agreed, it seems almost too quick, sorta' like being in a episode of Law and Order.

But in the end, we won out, that is all that counts.

 

[madsen]

Calm down--it ain't over till the fat lady sings.

 

[Donaldsrockets]

Oh yeah!!!

Now to get a decent job so I can buy some 29mm and 38mm HPR loads!!!

I hear a J500G calling me.

 

[evil ed]

I'm happy too,
but did anyone see the footnote at the bottom of page three?

According to my wife (she use to be a lawyer- had trouble shedding her skin )
this states that they can re-instate the rules IF:

A) They can prove that AP IS an explosive (fat chance- they couldn't prove it in the last 9 years).

OR

B) Congress grants them the authority over AP (Getting them to do this and get it out of committee would be like hearding cats! Besides, who on the hill wants to be seen as a friend of ATF?).

I think we got 'em by the short hairs this time!

 

[MysticalRockets]

Calm down--it ain't over till the fat lady sings.

She's warming up backstage. And ordered a whole bunch of doughnuts for the after-show party.

 

[quickburst]

I am curious as to what this means exactly. Does this just cover motors? What about Igniters and e-matches?

Guess we should be hearing from Tripoli and NAR for the official answer soon.

...Fudd

Igniters and e-matches (one and the same in ATF's eyes) are not affected. Legally a LEUP is still required.

read this:
https://www.quickburst.net/Letter From ATF.pdf

This letter proves that all igniters are regulated.

Maybe the legal team needs to take on another battle?

 

[cjl]

Excellent.

Break out the G33's

 

[Bravo52]

This is really good news. We can all agree on that. However...........

I think this is an important time for NAR and TRA to look at the way ahead and self-regulate in a responsible way. We don't want to provide them a way to "reattack". Slow and deliberate.

We (NAR/TRA) shouldn't give an inch, but it shouldn't be a free for all.

Now I can finally fly my Mercury Atlas without having to worry about who or if someone is going to show up at a launch!! Woo-Hoo.....

 

[Donaldsrockets]

Hopefully if this goes through, it will promote steady growth and introduce new motor vendors.

And yes, please bring back the G33J.

 

[Verna]

According to my wife (she use to be a lawyer- had trouble shedding her skin )
this states that they can re-instate the rules IF:

A) They can prove that AP IS an explosive (fat chance- they couldn't prove it in the last 9 years).

OR

B) Congress grants them the authority over AP (Getting them to do this and get it out of committee would be like hearding cats! Besides, who on the hill wants to be seen as a friend of ATF?).

I think we got 'em by the short hairs this time!

Easy does it guys and gals. Don't gloat too soon or loudly.

The ruling is good news for HPR and the hobby and it provides some relief, for now. I don't want to rain on the parade BUT this doesn't mean it's all over FOREVER. That's not the way it works when you are dealing with the Feds. They may pull back and regroup or come at it a different way but they are far from dead and like Freddy, they can, and most likely will, return in an altered form.

As someone who works hand in hand with a branch of the Feds I can tell you that you never really have them by the short hairs, they'll shave their entire body and cover themselves with baby oil if need be to get loose, and they will never die no matter how much water you drench them with.

Between the lines what I see is the judge telling them is how to change the rules so they can win. It's a simple matter of will the dog finally let the bone go, or is there vendetta enough remaining to catch a second wind and come again. They do after all have forever to try and they won't run out of money.

For now it's great, congratulations to TRA/NAR and those who fought so long to see this day. HPR has won a major battle but the war may not be over just yet, it's a TKO as far as they are concerned. Did they wave a white flag or say the word surrender? If not, and even if they did, don't bet your M motors on it.

HPR flyers still need to cross every t, dot every eye and give no reason to justify any type of extra scrutiny. Fly smart, fly safely. Obey the regs and codes.

Stay alert at your launches and watch the sheep. Some of them may be kin to Wylie Coyote.

Verna

 

[jj94]

So does this mean that there is no 64.5g limit? I honestly can't remember if it was 64.5g or something else. But you get my point right?

If the G33 comes back....YES!!! I've always wanted to fly one, but please keep the G53, which was brought in as a replacement. It's still an awesome motor, just look at my avatar.

 

[MKP]

Just wait until the BATFE changes the their definition of an explosive and then we're back to square one. You can never defeat government, only slow it down in a small way.

 

[BsSmith]

YES!

Now we don't need an LEUP! I don't have to wait till NSL to fly my Talon!

Hmmm... I wonder how high my Yank Mystic Buzz will go on a G75/G33... Probably not TOO far...

 

[quickburst]

So does this mean that there is no 64.5g limit? I honestly can't remember if it was 64.5g or something else. But you get my point right?

If the G33 comes back....YES!!! I've always wanted to fly one, but please keep the G53, which was brought in as a replacement. It's still an awesome motor, just look at my avatar.

There is no limit. Basically your grandma can buy an M motor and store it in her cookie jar.

APCP is no longer regulated by the ATF.

What does it mean to the TRA/NAR certification program? think about it.