V-2 Markings

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prowlerguy

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I am trying to mark my V-2 as the Operation Sandy flight. I have a great series of photos and a movie of the launch, but all of them are shot from the bow or island (the missile was erected at around the 1 wire). Soooo, I can't really see about 1/2 the fin can to see what (if any) roll patterns were applied. If anyone knows of a four-sided representation of these markings, I would be very grateful if you could steer me that way.
 

Stymye

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great idea ,

wish I had a complete view myself,,, I found some nice color pictures but I'll have to dig to find them, I'll keep digging

heres the best one I could find currently on my computer
 

bcdlr

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I just love these V-2 related threads. Too bad it was used the way it was during WWII. We may have flown them to the moon!
I've got a 13 mm Scale Kits one coming. Can't wait to build and fly it.
 

Stymye

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to bad people are still dwelling on it

it's too bad hundreds of different airborn weapons kill people

it's been 60 years since a V2 was launched against anyone in anger
no need to single it out,or to bow your head in a moment of silence before launching.

the cluster bomb has killed more people than you could ever imagine.many,many more than all the v2's combined
yet they are in every walmart.and no one thinks twice about it .
 

prowlerguy

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Thanks everyone. I had already managed to stumble across all the pictures you mentioned. But any further input would be appreciated. In fact, a few months ago, I saw a web site where someone described his HPR V-2 that he had decorated in Sandy colors. If anyone has seen that site, I would love to go back there and get his take on the minor markings.

Mike_BAR: I've been going to Buzz's site now for several years, more to relive the "glory days" than to look for rocket pictures. Anyway, his collection of Operation Sandy photos (and the video) include everything I have been able to find on the web.
 

MetMan

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Originally posted by stymye
to bad people are still dwelling on it

it's too bad hundreds of different airborn weapons kill people

it's been 60 years since a V2 was launched against anyone in anger
no need to single it out,or to bow your head in a moment of silence before launching.

the cluster bomb has killed more people than you could ever imagine.many,many more than all the v2's combined
yet they are in every walmart.and no one thinks twice about it .
stymye,

For me it's not the fact that the v2s were used as a weapon. It's the fact that they were produced by slave laborers. There's also the whole moral ambiguity of putting some Nazis on trial at Nurmeburg while simultaneously putting another bunch of Nazis to work at Fort Bliss. You can argue about the motives, but the reality is that an SS Captain became the director of NASA!

I like the V2 as much or more than the next guy, but I also try to keep it in its proper historical perspective. It 's really a complex and interesting intellectual argument.

Here's a good reference article:

https://www.v2rocket.com/start/chapters/vonbraun.html

Also, when I get around to it, my Estes CBU is going to be the clean kind--the bomblets will become inert after a period of time...

MetMan
 

Stymye

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I don't want to create any political topic so I won't say anymore than this

the points you mention are all valid and I deeply sympathise with anyone connected to that part of history, My point is simply that those feelings should be directed twords(you know who's) Nazi Germany of the 1940's not the V2 rocket.
 

MetMan

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Sometimes this place feels a bit Brave New World-ish...
 

mike_bar

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I am not sure if this is a political comment, brave new world position, or an off-topic rant. I say this from a personal perspective, that is, it is my point of view. I say the following with all respect to fellow model rocketeers.

I have trouble building replicas of war machines. Maybe I am fooling myself when I build a V-2 with White Sands test patterns instead of olive drape or camouflage operational detailing. This is my own rationalization and it works for me. Is the V-2 a war machine or a test rocket for the development of the American manned space program? I suppose it’s a philosophical question open for debate.

I am very interested in building scale model rockets and scratch built rockets. I have just re-entered this hobby as a BAR. So far, I have done more building than flying.

It is impossible to avoid that fact that much of the aerospace industry was, and is, related to military operations. Maybe building sounding rockets is an exception. This is only one point of view: mine. I am not lecturing here. I love the design of the V-2, the Honest John, and the Redstone. I will build them all with roll-pattern graphics. For my fellow rocketeers, I will respect and marvel at their accurate scale models built in operational markings.

Maybe Jim Flis has it correct, specializing in the "rocketry of old”, or fantasy design. Retro rockets can be beautiful designs as well. For me, I like the scale birds. There is a lot of history with these birds, both good and bad.

We make our own choices and all are valid. This has only been my point of view, shared with others, not a soapbox lecture. Thank you.
Respectfully,
Mike
 

prowlerguy

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Astronboy:
Thanks for the reference. I'll give it a shot over there. Perusing the membership, I think that if they don't know, it doesn't exist.
 

adrian

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Originally posted by Mike_BAR
Is the V-2 a war machine or a test rocket for the development of the American manned space program? I suppose it’s a philosophical question open for debate.
Both. The V-2 was the first man-made object into space and it got there from Nazi Germany. It was a weapon of mass destruction, built by the SS using slave labour; later it kickstarted both the American and Soviet space programmes. Like most things, it was not pure black or pure white, but a mixture of the two. (You may choose to express that philosophy by painting it in a black/white test scheme. :))
It is impossible to avoid that fact that much of the aerospace industry was, and is, related to military operations. Maybe building sounding rockets is an exception. This is only one point of view: mine. I am not lecturing here. I love the design of the V-2, the Honest John, and the Redstone. I will build them all with roll-pattern graphics. For my fellow rocketeers, I will respect and marvel at their accurate scale models built in operational markings.
I agree with all that. I've built models of British, American and German missiles, based purely on their merit as models and without any political consideration. In particular, I built some German ones because they look so different to any modern rockets. As for colour schemes, the best reason to choose roll patterns or colourful prototype schemes over camouflage is because it makes the rocket easier to find. :)
 

mike_bar

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prowlerguy,
I'm sorry to get off topic. I should have started a new thread.
Good luck with the Operation Sandy project.
Regards,
Mike
 

Stymye

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Prowler ,
I had no luck finding the color pic(s) , I may have been referring to pics of a finished model. If you don't mind, please post some info/pics as you progress.I'm also guilty of going off topic. sorry I didn't mean to cause a stir.It's cool to see a more unique scheme like Sandy.
 

powderburner

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I did not see anything offensive or disturbing in any of the above posts----I can see some of both viewpoints. Yeah, it sure would be nice if we could all plant flowers 'n stuff, but people being what they are, it occasionally comes in real handy to have a big stick at the ready.
I think it is also important to hear other's thoughts and to remember that there are many 'right' ways to consider some of these issues.
And I will also ask that any obscure data that can be retrieved would be preserved somewhere and shared for all to use. I recently had a bit of a run-in with someone who had some missile data and wanted to cash in on it (I guess that is his right) instead of being a little more generous. I would like to think that if I happened across some useful rocket/missile data, that I would make it available to anyone else and not be a jerk about releasing it.
 

graylensman

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Just to continue the misdirection of the thread (sorry Prowlerguy) -

I have given the V2 quandary a great deal of thought. It seems that the feelings regarding the V2 here on TRF are stirred up only by the V2. I never read anybody wrestling their conscience when building a Bullpup or a Saturn V.

Perhaps this is because the V2 is The Great Progenitor to the space age, and by extension, to our hobby. The advent of the V2 turns out to have been a crossroads of sorts. Would Humanity choose the stars or destruction? ("All this or nothing - which will it be, Passworthy?")

Well, as it turns out, humanity chose both in some degree. The V2 embodies both choices. No wonder it stirs up such consternation.

This is a gross oversimplification, I suppose...
 

mike_bar

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Originally posted by prowlerguy
Mike_BAR: I've been going to Buzz's site now for several years, more to relive the "glory days" than to look for rocket pictures. Anyway, his collection of Operation Sandy photos (and the video) include everything I have been able to find on the web.
Prowlerguy,
You many want to research Operation Sandy at the Naval Historical Center. You can find them online, via snail mail, or in person. Here are two links:
  1. Click here to visit the Naval Historical Center home page
  2. Click here to contact the Naval Historical Center
    [/list=1]
    Originally posted by graylensman
    Just to continue the misdirection of the thread (sorry Prowlerguy)
    Graylensman,
    I like your comments and the discussion of the history from a philosophical basis, that is, no personal attacks nor flames to the writers of the forum.

    I like the idea of building scale models. It looks like I will be spending most (all) of my vacation time in museums, since I am a new BAR.
 

Lugnut

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I think that if it weren't for the V2, theres a good chance the space race would not have been the same, and consequently model rocketry would not have been the same hobby, and we wouldn't be here arguing its merits (or lack thereof). It truly is the proginator of our hobby. That alone is reason enough to embrace it (or at least accept it without bias).

Besides, I think by definition, a rocket is a device inherently predisposed to explode given an opportunity and likely kill someone. The only implicit question is whether or not its designers are adept enough to convince it to do so at the locale of ones enemy, rather than right in front of them on the launch pad. As the Brits could unfortunately attest, the Germans were pretty capable of making them go boom downwind.

Sorry for the hijack, if I run across any pics, I'll let you know.

Mark
 

bcdlr

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Wow, that post war V-2 site is great. I didn't know we did all that (we=USA). I could look it up but I'd like the short version... What is operation Sandy?
On a related note I got my 13mm V-2 yesterday from BRS Hobbies - this is the ASP kit. Looks great. The fins and servo pods are laser cut basswood now (that's what the addendum in the kit says anyway). I guess before you had to cut them out yourself. Kind of neat too is that they epoxy the nose weight in for you.
Now to decide on a paint scheme. Since it's so small and my fingers so big I'm going to go with something easy to mask off!! :D
 

prowlerguy

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That's the model I'm building. It really is a sweet little rocket. If it flies half as good as it builds, It will be great.

Operation Sandy was a launch to determine the feasability of launching such a weapon from an aircraft carrier (USS Midway). It was preceeded by Operation Pushover, where a fully fueled missile was tipped over on a thick steel plate to simulate a carrier deck. Between the big hole made by Pushover, the painful logistics of erecting and launching the missile, and the fact the Sandy missile was destroyed 5 miles downrange, missiles like this were never developed for operational use.
 

bcdlr

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Originally posted by prowlerguy
That's the model I'm building. It really is a sweet little rocket. If it flies half as good as it builds, It will be great.

Operation Sandy was a launch to determine the feasability of launching such a weapon from an aircraft carrier (USS Midway). ...
There is just SO much history tied to the V2. It amazes me. There's the obvious that everyone knows with WVB ended up in the US and working at NASA and then there's all this ancillary stuff that I never knew anything about. Facinating!

I worked on my ASP V2 last night. The balsa's a little rough but hey that ought to make it look more scale, right? I heard up close and personal the V2's were kind of rough looking. But I guess that didn't matter for their intended use.
Anyone have some recommendations on cheap, easy to read books on the V2. I don't want too involved just something to fill in a few more blanks.
I want to get my hands on the Alway V2 book, which I understand is more markings and variations as well as variations built by other countries. On the ASP site is a book called, "V2: Dawn of the Rocket Age," by Joachim Engelmann. This looks like it might be a good 'little' book.
That's what's neat about this hobby. A little history with your entertainment is good.
 

Lugnut

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I heard up close and personal the V2's were kind of rough looking. But I guess that didn't matter for their intended use.
If the one at the Smithsonian NASM is any indication then yes ( alot of wavy sheetmetal, just like a B-24). But given they were built by slave labor in appalling conditions, its little wonder.

Lugnut
 

Stymye

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yes they were hand hammered out and understandably the
people building them did not want to spend any extra effort to make them pretty

also most of them were painted using brooms.
 

powderburner

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Originally posted by astronboy
. . . the Yahoo Scaleroc group. . . .
https://groups.yahoo.com/group/scaleroc/
I have tried three times in the past several weeks to get registered on that site but keep getting bumped back to the screen where it asks you to read those twisted-up letter codes. I know I'm old, but I think I can still read those letters and numbers.

Is anyone else having trouble getting access to this yahoo forum?
 

mike_bar

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Originally posted by powderburner
Is anyone else having trouble getting access to this yahoo forum?
I registered about six weeks ago. The security code is hard to read. Try turning your head at an angle and use your imagination. It should work OK.
 

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