US rockets Two The Limit - modified build

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802high

Flying high in the 802
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Hello Everyone, Posting my first thread here. I picked up a US Rockets Two The Limit kit a while ago and was planning on flying it direct staged with BP motors but after doing a bit more research and some simulations it looks like the kit without payload section is going to be at the upper end of acceptable weight for a stable takeoff.

So here is where my heads at would love your thoughts on any or all of the below points:

1. Regardless of configuration I plan on using rail buttons instead of launch lugs to fly off a rail and get this thing up to speed before it leaves the pad.

2. Fly it without the payload section on a no wind day - maybe the easy easy out but kinda boring and not really getting the altitude results I want. I've read a little about staging composite to bp but am not interested in going this route because it sounds quite unreliable.

3. Cluster 2 24mm motors in the booster this would probably solve my liftoff weight problem but I am wondering if I stage 2 24mm in the booster to a single 24 or 29mm motor in the sustainer if the offset of the motors in the booster will cause issues with igniting the single motor in the sustainer. I understand this will also change the center of gravity. My other concern with this approach is how the added weight in the booster will effect tumble recovery. Easy solution for the offset issue would be to cluster 2 24mm motors in the sustainer too.

4. Strap on boosters. This could be cool. But I'm not sure I like the look of it for this project.

5. The direction I am leaning is electronic staging of composite motors. My only hang up here is the separation of the stages. I do not want to rely on drag separation and am leaning towards having the ignition of the sustainer separate the stages. My issue with this method is without any kind of bulkhead between stages will this method just trash the booster and or not separate it? There is limited space forward of the motor mount in the booster. To combat this I am thinking of adding a plywood bulkhead but drilling holes around the perimeter to allow the booster ejection charge to vent without blowing the stage apart. Is this feasible? I would coat the forward part of the bulkhead and coupler with epoxy of JB weld to protect it from heat during sustainer ignition. I have no experience with reloadable motors am I better off just using something like a 1 grain CTI case and a sealed forward closure?


Thoughts on any of the above are much appreciated.
 
Some thoughts, not really expert or authoritative.

3a. I would be really uncomfortable with staging two-to-one with empty space in between the booster and sustainer engines. Consider the trajectories of particles from the booster engines, and you'll see that you're not going to get much into the sustainer motor. BUT...

I've read somewhere, I think it was many, many moons ago in Peak of Flight, that you can construct a dog leg to connect one of the booster motors to the sustainer motor and, as funny as it sounds and looks, it works. So you needn't rule out two-to-one BP staging just yet.

3b. With two-to-two staging you eliminate the offset issue, but I'd be very worried about lighting up both sustainer motors. As soon as one lights, the stages separate, and the other one doesn't get the dose of burning particles that it needs. At any rate that's a possibility that bothers me about it.

4. Personally I think strap-ons would look fine, really cool in fact, but obviously that's entirely up to you.

5a. This obviously solves your problem. I suggest for your consideration that you:
I. Seal the top of the booster with a bulkhead coated with epoxy, as you brought up.
IIa. Vent the booster engine compartment with holes in the centering rings, or
IIb. Rear eject the motor mount with a streamer.​

5b. Remember that there are a good number of 24 mm and 29 mm single use composites on the market, so there's no need to leap into reloadables if you don't want to.
 
Without commenting on any of those issues, I'll just echo what @BABAR has stated a bunch of times recently: BP->BP staging is not from hot particles. There was a really good video at NARCON that documents it, but I don't have the link handy.

I don't know if the offset is a real problem or not.
 
Thanks. The rear ejection is a good idea!
I will post some links, photos, drawings soon.
 
Without commenting on any of those issues, I'll just echo what @BABAR has stated a bunch of times recently: BP->BP staging is not from hot particles. There was a really good video at NARCON that documents it, but I don't have the link handy.
Interesting. When I was a kid during and before my failed attempt at getting into the hobby, hot gas from the booster was the explanation for staging. When I became a BAR, various sources said it was actually particles of BP still burning. Not it's not that. Is it back to the hot gas or is there a new explanation?

Please do post that video.
 
Something about photons of energy instead of burning particles. A young lady did a scientific presentation, maybe at NARAM. I'll try to find the thread.
 
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