US Defense official: Chinese warship stole US underwater drone

[Winston]

US Defense official: Chinese warship stole US underwater drone - 16 Dec 20i6

https://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/16/politics/chinese-warship-underwater-drone-stolen/index.html

(CNN)A US oceanographic vessel Thursday had its underwater drone stolen by a Chinese warship literally right in front of the eyes of the American crew, a US defense official told CNN Friday.

In the latest encounter in international waters in the South China Sea region, the USNS Bowditch was sailing about 100 miles off the port at Subic Bay when the incident occurred, according to the official.
Bowditch had stopped in the water to pick up two underwater drones. At that point a Chinese naval ship that had been shadowing the Bowditch put a small boat into the water. That small boat came up alongside and the Chinese crew took one of the drones.

Probably one of these. Fascinating tech, ocean gliders that look like cruise missiles, "flying" underwater via boyancy changes :

Ocean Drones Plumb New Depths (with nice tech video)

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/12/science/earth/ocean-drones-plumb-new-depths.html?_r=0

The Navy’s Amazing Ocean-Powered Underwater Drone

https://swampland.time.com/2013/12/22/navy-underwater-drone/

Slocum Electric Glider

https://auvac.org/configurations/view/49

Redesigning the SLOCUM glider for torpedo tube launching

https://timeswampland.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/nurc-pr-2012-002.pdf

 

[markkoelsch]

We should conduct large scale freedom of navigation exercises in the South China Sea. It is in international waters...a carrier group should do it.

 

[Winston]

We should conduct large scale freedom of navigation exercises in the South China Sea. It is in international waters...a carrier group should do it.

Yeah, they're getting too cocky. Maybe after January 20th...

 

[Steve Shannon]

Given a chance, we would do the same. In fact we probably do. It's just all part of a game. It makes no sense to act upset about it and posture needlessly. They're aware of our might.


Steve Shannon

 

[markkoelsch]

Given a chance, we would do the same. In fact we probably do. It's just all part of a game. It makes no sense to act upset about it and posture needlessly. They're aware of our might.


Steve Shannon

Then two carrier groups? Maybe we recognize Taiwan because after this amount of time we should.

We have grabbed things before like sunken Soviet Submarines. We have tapped lines. The Chinese are getting quite bold though, and we need to push back lest they think we are wimps.

 

[Steve Shannon]

We should recognize Taiwan. I've thought that since I worked there in 1992.


Steve Shannon

 

[Winston]

We should recognize Taiwan. I've thought that since I worked there in 1992.


Steve Shannon

Agree. It's a stupid charade otherwise.

Pentagon demands China return US underwater drone
December 16, 2016

https://www.cnn.com/2016/12/16/politics/chinese-warship-underwater-drone-stolen/index.html

 

[Winston]

South China Sea Artificial Islands Have Weapons Installed
Dec 15 2016

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/china/...islands-have-weapons-installed-report-n696311

 

[markkoelsch]

South China Sea Artificial Islands Have Weapons Installed
Dec 15 2016

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/china/...islands-have-weapons-installed-report-n696311

Islands can be eliminated...

 

[georgegassaway]

Islands can be eliminated...

Sigh. Cities of nation 2 can be eliminated in retaliation for nation 1's islands being eliminated. And then it's WW III.

 

[markkoelsch]

Sigh. Cities of nation 2 can be eliminated in retaliation for nation 1's islands being eliminated. And then it's WW III.

George, of course you are correct. A little dark humor on my part.

I do believe we should conduct fleet sized freedom of navigation exercises
In the area. It is international water. The Chinese would likely do so in our waters had they a navy of our caliber.

I think other measures should likely be taken as well in regards to the Chinese.

1) Fair trade is important. Do our products go into China without tariffs/taxes/mark ups. I do not think so. We should tax them equivalently to what they do to us.

2) China is notorious for ripping off designs of products manufactured there, and then making them and selling them cheaper. They do not pay attention to patent laws at all. I know people who have lost successful companies this way- it happens. We should not manufacture high tech stuff there.

3) Recognize Taiwan.

 

[Steve Shannon]

It's important to understand too, that (at least when I worked in Taiwan) just as the PRC considers Taiwan a wayward province, Taiwan considers its government the rightful government of China, in exile. Both China and Taiwan would have to change their tunes in order for us to recognize them both at the same time.

By the way, Taiwan sold lots of knockoff products while I was there too.


Steve Shannon

 

[Frederocket]

The response from the current president; "Thank you sir, can I have another"...

 

[Frederocket]

It's important to understand too, that (at least when I worked in Taiwan) just as the PRC considers Taiwan a wayward province, Taiwan considers its government the rightful government of China, in exile. Both China and Taiwan would have to change their tunes in order for use to recognize them both at the same time.

By the way, Taiwan sold lots of knockoff products while I was there too.

Steve Shannon

Back in 1968 I was stationed at CCK in Tiawan... One morning I was on top the wing of the C-130E I was the crew chief on, changing out life rafts when two mainland Chinese migs shot a touch and go on the main taxi way... Why they didn't use the main runway seemed strange to me...

Speaking of knockoffs, back then, record recordings purchased on the local market could not be imported to the states, brought back in hold baggage, or household goods. Some folks, including me duped records at the Base library on to real to real tape. Still have some of those tapes. (Note to self, need to change the belts on my Akia 150D tape deck)...

 

[markkoelsch]

Perhaps it is just time to recognize both and let the chips fall where they may. Clearly, From our vantage point Taiwan is separate from the mainland. We should not let the Chinese dictate our policy towards Taiwan. If they don't like it we can take our business elsewhere.

 

[tmacklin]

This incident makes me want to shoplift some cheap merchandise from Walmart.

 

[Winston]

2) China is notorious for ripping off designs of products manufactured there, and then making them and selling them cheaper. They do not pay attention to patent laws at all. I know people who have lost successful companies this way- it happens. We should not manufacture high tech stuff there.

That is my main beef with them. They have ZERO respect for intellectual property. Why? It's freaking CULTURAL:

To Steal a Book is an Elegant Offense: Intellectual Property Law in Chinese Civilization
Stanford University Press

https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/yjlh/vol8/iss2/10/

"A capitalist will sell you the rope you use to hang them." That describes our multinational corporation idiots stupidly drooling over the Chinese market they will never own. The Chinese will simply steal the tech and make their own.

 

[markkoelsch]

That is my main beef with them. They have ZERO respect for intellectual property. Why? It's freaking CULTURAL:

To Steal a Book is an Elegant Offense: Intellectual Property Law in Chinese Civilization
Stanford University Press

https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/yjlh/vol8/iss2/10/

"A capitalist will sell you the rope you use to hang them." That describes our multinational corporation idiots stupidly drooling over the Chinese market they will never own. The Chinese will simply steal the tech and make their own.

This why I am a proponent of being very hard towards them. Others can do manufacturing- heck, we can do it. I would rather not send my money to communists with no respect for law.

 

[Winston]

Dec 17, 10:39 AM EST
CHINA SAYS IT SEIZED US NAVY DRONE TO ENSURE SAFETY OF SHIPS - agree to return it

https://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stori...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-12-17-10-39-22

"In order to prevent this device from posing a danger to the safe navigation of passing ships and personnel, the Chinese lifeboat adopted a professional and responsible attitude in investigating and verifying the device," Yang said.

The statement said that after verifying that the device was an American unmanned submerged device, "China decided to transfer it to the U.S. through appropriate means."

The statement also accused the U.S. of long deploying ships "in China's presence" to conduct "military surveying." (in INTERNATIONAL WATERS - W)

"China is resolutely opposed to this and requests the U.S. stop such activities," it said. "China will continue to maintain vigilance against the relevant U.S. activities and will take necessary measures to deal with them."

The drone was seized while collecting unclassified scientific data about 92 kilometers (57 miles) northwest of Subic Bay near the Philippines in the South China Sea, which China claims virtually in its entirety, Navy Capt. Jeff Davis, a Pentagon spokesman, said Friday.

"It is ours. It's clearly marked as ours. We would like it back, and we would like this not to happen again," Davis told reporters. He said the drone costs about $150,000 and is largely commercial, off-the-shelf technology.

They agree to return it, no doubt, after finding the Navy's drone sub is one that is commercially available to buy... for reverse engineering at their leisure... assuming they can't reverse engineer this one fast enough before returning it.

 

[rcktnut]

The Navy should have 5 or 10 lbs. of explosives in them things and push the self destruct button when they get in the wrong hands. Bet they won't be plucking them out of the water after that.

 

[Steve Shannon]

At least the Chinese didn't claim that they were recalling the batteries in the drone.

 

[Winston]

Smoggy Beijing, under alert, orders factories to shut or cut output (for the nth time)
Dec 17, 2016

https://in.reuters.com/article/us-china-pollution-idINKBN146032

"Beijing's city government ordered 1,200 factories near the Chinese capital, including a major oil refinery run by state oil giant Sinopec, to shut or cut output on Saturday after authorities issued the highest possible air pollution alert."

I've read that US corporations with buildings in Beijing wishing to protect their personnel regularly experience pollution meter readings that are beyond the ranges listed in their instrumentation operating and use instructions - in other words beyond "extremely dangerous."

10% of the air pollution in the US is from China. This is another cause of trade imbalance - it's called environment protection cost arbitrage - if you can simply dump toxins into the rivers and the air it only adds to your cheap labor advantage.

Once China digs out of its third world attitude, they are going to have a BAZILLION superfund cleanup sites to deal with...

 

[markkoelsch]

Smoggy Beijing, under alert, orders factories to shut or cut output (for the nth time)
Dec 17, 2016

https://in.reuters.com/article/us-china-pollution-idINKBN146032

"Beijing's city government ordered 1,200 factories near the Chinese capital, including a major oil refinery run by state oil giant Sinopec, to shut or cut output on Saturday after authorities issued the highest possible air pollution alert."

I've read that US corporations with buildings in Beijing wishing to protect their personnel regularly experience pollution meter readings that are beyond the ranges listed in their instrumentation operating and use instructions - in other words beyond "extremely dangerous."

10% of the air pollution in the US is from China. This is another cause of trade imbalance - it's called environment protection cost arbitrage - if you can simply dump toxins into the rivers and the air it only adds to your cheap labor advantage.

Once China digs out of its third world attitude, they are going to have a BAZILLION superfund cleanup sites to deal with...

Winston, they will not dig out of it in my opinion. Not until they cannot produce because their people are expiring enmass. When you have something like 2 billion people they are cheap, and there is little reason to be concerned for their well being. You can just get more people. Unfortunate, but I think realistic.

 

[Steve Shannon]

Back in 1968 I was stationed at CCK in Tiawan... One morning I was on top the wing of the C-130E I was the crew chief on, changing out life rafts when two mainland Chinese migs shot a touch and go on the main taxi way... Why they didn't use the main runway seemed strange to me...

Speaking of knockoffs, back then, record recordings purchased on the local market could not be imported to the states, brought back in hold baggage, or household goods. Some folks, including me duped records at the Base library on to real to real tape. Still have some of those tapes. (Note to self, need to change the belts on my Akia 150D tape deck)...

Cool! Merry Christmas Fred.

 

[Viperfixr]

I just wish that every time someone talks boldly and rattles the preverbal saber promoting 'strong' action, that the same individuals felt strongly enough about it to be on the leading ship/airplane/tank forging ahead into harm's way. Rarely is that true.

 

[Winston]

I just wish that every time someone talks boldly and rattles the preverbal saber promoting 'strong' action, that the same individuals felt strongly enough about it to be on the leading ship/airplane/tank forging ahead into harm's way. Rarely is that true.

I once was, although I was in the USAF, and during the only wars in my time I was assigned to strategic type, not tactical, jobs. My fervent wish is that our forces are used only when truly necessary, not in geopolitical shooting wars initiated by us on false pretenses. Parades of a few of our navy vessels in international waters in response to cocky acts by culturally inherent intellectual property thieves in international waters is OK by me.

 

[Winston]

When you have something like 2 billion people they are cheap, and there is little reason to be concerned for their well being.

If you are referring only to a concern by their government about pollution related issues, I agree. Many of the worst violators are huge SOEs, state-owned enterprises which still comprise much of their economy because they are owned by corrupt individuals in the military and government.

However, the Chinese Communist Party can't let things get too bad because, like any government, they could be easily overwhelmed by their masses in revolt. Starting in 2010, a year of some of the greatest world impact of the global financial crisis starting in 2008, and until 2014 the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) spent as much on their internal police forces as they did on their military. They know they don't dare anger the proles too much without a strong police state or even with one or they'll all end up hanging from lamp posts like the Mussolinis.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

The response from the current president; "Thank you sir, can I have another"...

President elect just tweeted, "We should tell China that we don't want the drone they stole back.- let them keep it!"

 

[Frederocket]

Cool! Merry Christmas Fred.

Same to you and yours...

 

[Frederocket]

President elect just tweeted, "We should tell China that we don't want the drone they stole back.- let them keep it!"

Yep, the next four years will definitely not be dull...:shock: