- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 11,616
- Reaction score
- 6,250
Those “OOI“ (Open On Impact) parachutes are annoying, aren’t they?
Updates...
- Thread starter Ronz Rocketz
- Start date
Help Support The Rocketry Forum:
Those “OOI“ (Open On Impact) parachutes are annoying, aren’t they?
another good video, keep 'em coming
Breezy day with guest family and four Catos, first attempt at a Chad Cato Booster
Winds were supposed to be 2 to 5 mph but was 5 to 15 mph. I brought mostly low wind rockets so had to re-strategize with what I brought with me. The live stream worked except it was too breezy, and there was a lot of jiggling so didn't include the footage in this video. I have another stand to try, just need to remember where I put it. A guest family joined us. Jarrod launched his Journey from a small field and barely recovered it, so he googled model rocket fields and found our Hawaii Rockets group on Facebook. Despite angling the rocket into the wind, it went out of the park. After several attempts, we couldn't find it.We had four Catos. Overall, no significant damage to the rockets. The A10-3T in the Humdinger Cato'd spectacularly. I then looked into my range box and found another A10 with the same lot number. I decided to tape the motor to a newer A10 and try the Humdinger again. This worked spectacularly with the first motor cato'ing into the second motor. Next, Gary had a Cato with a ten year old F15-0. It went up over 50ft and then set off the ejection charge. The Turbo Vortico is Cato proof so no problem. The next Cato was the CC Express booster motor which went off at the top of the rod. It successfully ignited the second stage so no problem. With two Cato boosters, I now consider myself a specialist. (not really)
Gary launched four of the spinning rockets including the Terraformer that previously disassembled in flight from the rapid thrust of an E30. I figured the Quest Turbo would be a good candidate for a high altitude streamer launch because it has a plastic fin can that can take a hard landing. Not sure if it actually went 645ft because I'm starting to doubt the accuracy of one of my Estes altimeters. I shoulda used the FS Mini instead.
We finally figured out Tom's Green Helibomber despite the video I have with him showing us how to set it up. I used the crochet hook to thread a rubber band through the bottom then hook the ends over the motor to keep it in place. The ejection charge breaks the rubber bands which then opens the blades. It's a genius design. I remember Tom using a B6-4 but wasn't sure. I have a C11-0 but the lot number had Cato'd in the CC Express and didn't want to blow up the GH so used a D12-0 instead. It probably went 500ft and fortunately landed on the sidewalk. There was noticeable singing on the inside and one of the blades ripped. Tom used thin wire to hold the blades together so the damage was superficial.
0:00 Gary's Mars Leaper
0:13 Cadet 4pts
1:15 Jarrod's Journey
3:10 Gary's Vortico
3:31 Garys Mega Vortico D12-0
3:47 Boosted Bertha 230ft 6pts
4:41 Gary's Terraformer
5:18 Quest Turbo 645ft 5pts
6:19 Humdinger 2pts
6:48 Humdinger 3pts
7:34 Gary's Turbo Vortico
8:12 CC Express 5pts
9:36 Green Helibomber 4pts
10:58 Gary's Decaffineator
11:28 Total 29pts + 10 bonus = 39pts
I have never seen anyone CATO stage a rocket before but you pulled it off twice in the same video.
I have never had a half CATO before.
Either the motor flies fine or it blows something on or near the pad.
This one went up a hundred feet before failing.
Screenshot from the video showing the instant the slug let go.
Good flight, good video, no damage so I'm calling it a success.
Either the motor flies fine or it blows something on or near the pad.
This one went up a hundred feet before failing.
Screenshot from the video showing the instant the slug let go.
Good flight, good video, no damage so I'm calling it a success.
When both the Turbo Vortico and CC Express went Cato, Gary and I wondered what the heck was happening.
Lots of A10-3T CATOs at present. Bit of a concern, but I use way more A3-4Ts, you know, the ones with the ejection charges that make your paint bubble.
Several failures including FS Mini in a large tree again on a low wind day
Despite the busy weekend, I decided to do a quick trip to the field promising 2mph winds on a blue sky day. My guess is there was a sheer wind above drifting the Star Orbiter and Aloun Fad into the trees. The SO was easy to pull down with the pole. The tree that the AF landed on is lush with leaves and many dead branches. We could barely see the payload bay and chute. We plan to pull it down like last time with a long pole and hook. The rocket will probably not survive but hopefully will get the Mini and AC cam back. In hindsight, it might've landed on the gym if I had tilted the rocket more into the wind and would have no hope of getting it back.Gary and I were also struggling with controllers not working. First my Thomas controller stopped showing continuity, then the DIY controller had no continuity. After wiggling and sanding, the DIY started working again. At home, the Thomas worked fine so not sure what the problem is.
The main purpose of launching today was to test my new launch pad configuration. I had the Estes PSII pad in my cart for $13 on sale but decided I didn't need it because I previously installed a keyless drill chuck to the tripod that can fit a 1/4" rod. I had a 6ft steel rod that I cut down to 4ft and wanted to try it out. I successfully launched the AD before in the park with a F15-4 so figured it would work. I suspect the sheer wind said otherwise.
The Astron Explorer could reportedly go 1200ft on an E12, and the Estes altimeter reported 385ft on a D12. Hard to tell in the video. I suspect this altimeter is not resetting at launch like it used to. I'm also questioning the altimeter in the SO because it initially said 888ft but then later said 281ft. It looked more like 888ft to me. 0:00 Gary's Semroc Batrok, A8-3
0:24 Star Orbiter E16-4, 281ft 4pts
1:44 Gary's Sunward Mini Moondance, A8-3
2:05 Astron Explorer D12-5, 385ft 5pts
3:25 Gary's Sunward Moondance, B6-4
3:47 Gary's Fliskits Long Overdue, A8-3
4:09 Aloun Fad E16-4, 475ft 4pts
5:24 Gary's NewWay Nike Smoke 2, B6-2
Total 13pts + 5 bonus = 18pts
A Star Orbiter to 888 feet on an E16 is plausible. Four seconds is too short a delay, though….
1200 feet on an Astron Explorer sounds wildly optimistic. 385 on a D12 sounds reasonable, actually, for a model with that much plastic weight in it.
The Estes altimeter has its quirks, but having it jump down in reading like that suggests it thought it took another flight. Did you prompt it to recall its prior flights? It holds data for ten. It also must be reset before flight (hold button down until 0000 appears in the display, then release). It doesn’t reset itself (or at least it’s not supposed to). However, since it never locks in a reading either, if you flew it, and then flew it again to a higher altitude without resetting it, you’d get the result of the higher altitude upon recovery.
1200 feet on an Astron Explorer sounds wildly optimistic. 385 on a D12 sounds reasonable, actually, for a model with that much plastic weight in it.
The Estes altimeter has its quirks, but having it jump down in reading like that suggests it thought it took another flight. Did you prompt it to recall its prior flights? It holds data for ten. It also must be reset before flight (hold button down until 0000 appears in the display, then release). It doesn’t reset itself (or at least it’s not supposed to). However, since it never locks in a reading either, if you flew it, and then flew it again to a higher altitude without resetting it, you’d get the result of the higher altitude upon recovery.
But hey, no CATOs for you guys which is a pleasant change.
I agree. 1200ft seems ridiculous. I took the battery out of the altimeter to check and it's at 5.6v which isn't bad. The reason I have E16-4 is because the 6 delay is too much for the DBRM. The main problem with the SO is the ejection charge in the BT-60 tube tends to snap any elastic so have to use Kevlar only which tends to get knotted up if not inserted properly. I use a little tape to keep the cord in order.
The funny thing is that I inserted wadding. Afterwards, I realized the entire rocket is a baffle. Duh...
I actually don't mind the Catos as long as Estes continues to replace the motors and rockets when they explode. My problem now is that I have a bunch of E26W and D22W motors with the bad clay formulation and Karl won't replace them until they go bad so have to put them into cheap, heavy rockets that I don't mind veering off into the canal.
Last edited:
I never imagined you having canals on a Hawaiian island.
Despite removing the battery, I could still scroll through the readings and find the 888ft. As you said, the 281ft was probably the result of removing the rocket from the tree.
Indeed. Canals are a way of life in Hawaii and part of the religion. It practically rains every day on the mauka and travels down each ahupua'a to the makai where it's usually sunny except for the windward side of the island. The canal runs along two sides of the park protected by the monkeypod trees. We become quite skilled at removing rockets from the trees. We're planning on going back this afternoon to retrieve a big rocket from the top of a big tree in the bottom right of the park. I was lucky it didn't land on the gym (horizontal slots) which is instant death to rockets.
Indeed. Canals are a way of life in Hawaii and part of the religion. It practically rains every day on the mauka and travels down each ahupua'a to the makai where it's usually sunny except for the windward side of the island. The canal runs along two sides of the park protected by the monkeypod trees. We become quite skilled at removing rockets from the trees. We're planning on going back this afternoon to retrieve a big rocket from the top of a big tree in the bottom right of the park. I was lucky it didn't land on the gym (horizontal slots) which is instant death to rockets.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 11,616
- Reaction score
- 6,250
You have spoiled me, I miss the labels. Still great videos! so not sure, do you add or subtract points with no CATOs?
Good question. If the Cato has a positive result, then +1. Yes, I have discovered there are positive Catos, which I guess is an oxymoron.
If it's a quick video, I'm not bothering with the labels. I haven't decided if the the labels are worth it or just put the info in the timeline.
Local club is planning to launch rockets in a small field with 15mph winds. I’ll bring my 24’ pole to help get the rockets out of the trees. Can’t decide if I should bring my New Shepard. We’re planning a MPR launch on Saturday but also 15mph winds.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 11,616
- Reaction score
- 6,250
You have a decent field, but not a 15 mph wind field, unless you are looking at saucers, hard for me to be soo sympathetic, since I haven’t found any local fields in a year, only thing I have done in WA was nearly a three hour drive to 60 acres park.
i understand the itch to launch, but don’t throw any altimeters or rockets you can’t stand to lose. May be a better day to take the club to lunch and talk rockets, or do a group build at somebody’s house and get Kahlua Pork Nachos.
i think the Jolly Logic Chute Release is a great concept, but since it is expensive (for low power, usually greater than the cost of the rocket in terms of purchase price of rocket and/or parts) if a rocket goes cruise missile it won’t prevent loss of rocket AND the JLCR.
interesting, technically per Stine’s handbook, flat parachutes like those from most kits technically are paraSHEETS.
so if you use the JLCR with a plastic chute, technically isn’t it a Jolly Logic Sheet Release? We could use more of those in Washington DC, right now they only operate at 2 and 4 year intervals, and aren’t very effective.
i understand the itch to launch, but don’t throw any altimeters or rockets you can’t stand to lose. May be a better day to take the club to lunch and talk rockets, or do a group build at somebody’s house and get Kahlua Pork Nachos.
i think the Jolly Logic Chute Release is a great concept, but since it is expensive (for low power, usually greater than the cost of the rocket in terms of purchase price of rocket and/or parts) if a rocket goes cruise missile it won’t prevent loss of rocket AND the JLCR.
interesting, technically per Stine’s handbook, flat parachutes like those from most kits technically are paraSHEETS.
so if you use the JLCR with a plastic chute, technically isn’t it a Jolly Logic Sheet Release? We could use more of those in Washington DC, right now they only operate at 2 and 4 year intervals, and aren’t very effective.
So it should be JLSR?
Oh sheet!
Yesterday we had a mid power launch (ostensibly) at a larger ag field.
Winds were brisk.
I launched an RTF wind tester. Angled the rod about 25 deg. into the wind.
On a B motor.
Long walk to recover.
That was it for the day for me.
I did lose the last of the FS Minis to a massive tree because I used a 4' rod instead of a 6' rod. I haven't used the JLCR in some time since I'm afraid of losing it to a tree also. I have lots of Estes altimeters. For some reason, they're not easily lost like the FS Minis. even though I've been more cavalier with the Estes altimeters. I'm looking into making Eggtimer Ions as an alternative. Shipping the battery to Hawaii is problematic.
MPR on a windy day and STEMfest paper rockets
We're really appreciative of Aloun for letting us launch at their field. They recently had their pumpkin festival, so the parking lot was weed free. We had four students today. Three entering the NASA program to work on student payloads and one high schooler.The winds were between 15 and 20 mph. It takes a lot of planning to schedule the students so not easy to reschedule. By 10am, the winds were starting to knock over chairs and launch pads so ended early. I added little wind muffs to the handycam but didn't seem to help. October and November have been really windy conditions so far. Fortunately, no hurricanes this season.
I came up with the idea of adding a PSII booster on the DBRM. It had a stability of 1.0 in OpenRocket. I bought the E16-4 because the 6 second delay was too long with the sustainer. The ejection ripped off all but one of the shroud lines so a bit of a rough landing. I strengthened the fins with styrene sheets which works okay but over time, has warped the fins a bit. I have three more DBRM that I bought in the Amazon sale. This one keeps ticking and working great so far.
The Star Orbiter had a perfect flight despite the winds. I borrowed the adapter from Gary. I coulda used a 29mm motor and still land in the parking lot. I have some D22 and E26 motors with bad nozzles. Aerotech has been replacing them but first I have to try them which is not easy in the smaller park. Unfortunately, the wind deterred these plans. I used the old cube cam on the SO in case I lose it. The cam works okay but has a three second audio delay which is a pain to fix.
Jake was trying to use up old motors he has. The G38-4 in his scratch built rocket worked better than expected. The students searched for it. After viewing the video footage at home, I realized it went over the berm and will try to find it later today. Update: I found the rocket minus one fin.
I also included video from the Girl Scouts STEMfest the day before. They built ten compressed air launchers and about 360 paper rockets. I brought my 24' pole, but the rockets were so light that they stuck to the top of the trees and were impossible to reach.
0:00 Intro
0:48 DBRM boosted F15-0/E16-4 492ft 6pts
4:09 Malcani's Alpha3 A8-3
4:48 Star Orbiter E12-6 - 473ft 6pts
7:00 Flight video
7:58 Jake's Run-away Scratch G38-4
10:23 Jake's Shadow Hawk F22
10:47 STEMfest
11:39 Total 12pts + 15 bonus = 28pts
When driving past the Aloun festival grounds after retrieving the rocket, I saw smoke coming from the grounds so stopped my car and couldn't see anyone around. Someone dumped hot coals on the dry grass causing a small brush fire. I called 911 then found a garden hose to stop the flames. The FD dumped a bunch of water to stop it from flaring. If I hadn't gone to find the lost rocket this morning, I wouldn't have driven by the grounds and who knows how far the grass fire would spread.
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2017
- Messages
- 1,918
- Reaction score
- 807
Regarding shroud line tear-outs, see post #5 – good solution. https://bit.ly/3hICedD
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2017
- Messages
- 1,918
- Reaction score
- 807
Is this somewhere in Wahiawa? Aloun seems to be scattered over a pretty wide area in central Oahu. That elevated highway is totally unfamiliar (part of the new rail system, or something else)? Been 22 years since I left.
mh9162013
Well-Known Member
Trees prefer the taste of FS Minis...
Honouliuli, a little ways west of Waipahu.
Yes, that is the elevated track of the new rail system scheduled to open soon after many years of delay and billions over budget.
And an abridged version to boot.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2017
- Messages
- 1,918
- Reaction score
- 807
Ah, Ewa Beach-ish. Thanks @kuririn I think I remember it was all cane field land at one time.
This plastic chute has survived at least two DBRM launches I believe. I've been frame stepping through the footage to figure out what happened. It looks like the shrouds got wrapped around the fins. If I cared about the rocket, I woulda used a nylon chute. I have three more kits from that Amazon sale. This rocket is a warrior and refuses to die. I respect that.
We're not sure how much longer we'll have access to this area as the housing starts to creep forward to the highway. There's a theory that the ambient temps have increased as the ag fields are turned to houses. Probably true...
Extremely busy Thanksgiving weekend with no lost rockets and no Catos
The live video can be found at https://youtu.be/Ymzt9z34sjk.Recordbreaking 74 point weekend. I use a complicated point system to evaluate each launch event. Basically if it stays on the launch pad, it's 0 points. If it has a launch, goes straight up, deploys, recovers, altimeter, camera, and RaceRender, it's 7 points. There were 180 edit cuts in the video which almost maxed out the capacity of my laptop. I assure you I'm saying Go for launch and not Go for lunch.
We've had discussions on the forum if humidity effects the rocket's speed going up and going down. Empirically, the rockets don't seem to go as high as they should and take a longer time to descend on high humidity days. Others argue that humidity causes rockets and baseballs to go faster because water is lighter than air (which is why we have clouds). However, rockets are not subject to the Magnus effect like baseballs. This weekend was a low humidity day (one of the main differences between winter and summer in Hawaii) so seemed like the rockets were falling out of the sky.
The Blue Origin is the second rocket I bought after I mailed back the first rocket in the recall. It worked great. The AC cams both didn’t turn on, haven’t used them for a month, but the cube cam worked. The problem with it is that the audio is 3 seconds out of sync so takes some effort to fix it. I just got the White COC ornament from Estes this week and added the motor tube and lug. I forgot to add the NC weight but flew relatively straight. I may or may not have jumped the park fence to retrieve the SWAT. I asked the park manager what is the best method for retrieving a rocket on the weekend, and he said jumping the fence is the best option knowing some kid will do it before Monday. With both flight videos, the altimeter may be recording the time at ejection and not apogee. The SWAT has the holes but not the Interrogator yet. On Gary's Xray, it kinda sounded like a Cato but flew fine, just faster than expected so not calling it a Cato. On the Tiger Streak, I shortened the elastic shock cord and the streamer so it comes out easier.
The winds on Saturday were 8 to 10 mph and 2 to 5 on Sunday. I wanted to test out my new GoPro10 on Saturday so launched a few small rockets. Since I wasn't streaming, I positioned the cellphone to capture the side also. For some reason, it's jerky at 60fps. I'm trying to see if it works better for making YT Short videos. I retired my GoPro3 and placed the GoPro8 on the ground. I previously bought a foam cover for the 8 and tried it on the 10 which mostly fits except that the 10 overheated and shut down. I took the foam cover off and made a little tent shade which seemed to keep it cool. Ironically, the 8 on the ground didn't have overheating issues, but the battery life is crap compared to the 10. I now realize the video delay was in the 8 instead of the video software because the delay is in the ground cam now.
00:00 Gary's Mars Leaper A10-PT
00:05 Mike's Tazz
00:49 Blue Origin BK C5-3 4pts
02:14 Makena's Alpha3 A8-3
03:09 Interrogator D12-5 435ft 7pts
04:31 Flight video
05:37 Roger's Grid Fin A8-3
06:24 White COC 1/2A3-2T 2pts
07:09 Makena's Alpha3 B6-4
08:19 Side Kick 2x B6-4 5pts
09:20 Condor B6-2 5pts
10:43 Gary's V2 D12-3
12:52 SS Cestris D12-3 - 343ft 5pts
14:26 SWAT E12-6 504ft 7pts
15:53 Flight video
16:54 Gary's Black Brant X Park Flyer, E12-4
18:09 Gary's XRay, A10-3T
18:56 Gary's Celtic Thunder, A8-3
19:25 Roger's Nike-X
20:17 Mike's Tazz
20:35 Gary's Sky Lofter, A8-3
21:10 Atomic C6-3 4pts
21:31 ESAM-58 C5-3 - 222ft 5pts
23:39 Antar C5-3 - 234ft 4pts
24:49 ASM A10-3T 3pts
25:44 Tiger Streak A10-0T / 1/4A3-3T 4pts
26:48 Gyroc C6-3 4pts
27:40 Total 59pts + 15 bonus = 74pts
Many high altitude LPR launches with four flight cams and one in the swimming pool
It was a rare no wind day so had several high flights. It was 66F when I left the house which is as cold as it gets in Hawaii. At one point, I couldn't find a cloud in the sky, even over the two mountain ranges. Later that evening, a massive thunderstorm rolled in. The morning dew was creating havoc with the controllers. The 2x9v wasn't working but the 12v battery charger was. Eventually, the humidity burned off, and the rockets were falling out of the sky. The webcam was overheating so had to put a chute over it to cool down. Eventually after 1.5 hours, I gave up. The GoPro8 ground cam was too far away from the pad (to avoid the exhaust) which made it difficult to determine which rocket was which so left it out.I wanted to get as many flights as I could using the new 60fps cam. The quality was much better this time because I increased the bitrate from 16mb to 32mb. I also fixed the audio going through the right speaker by using Avidemux to switch to mono so it plays out of both speakers. Since it's only fixing the audio, the process is very quick. It's possible I could create stereo if I cared. The new GoPro10 seems to be slightly blurry so need to find a different setting (or return it to Costco).
I used the Estes AC cam on the Conquest because I didn't know if I'd get it back and also used it on the BB4 which ended up in the pool so wasn't a big loss. The Estes altimeter had served me well. I'll bury it in the backyard with full honors. You can see the quality difference between the 60 and 30 fps video, especially when the DBCP at 60fps was tumbling but could still get great screen grabs.
Instead of spending $50 on the Majestic, I cloned it with a payload section. I made the airfoil fins using three layers of balsa. I then covered the fins using metallic vinyl sheets which I hoped would be more pliable but turned out to be regular sticker sheets. If they end up peeling off, I can always spray the fins with silver paint. I used the 1/4in x 4ft rod which is great for the shorter MPR.
The DBCP was angled into the wind when the stand flexed a bit. It might have cleared the building if the chute had deployed at ejection. Fortunately, it deployed at the last second and only had a few scrapes. This rocket has had a rough life. After the previous lawndart, I used the gold vinyl sheets to recreate the top decal which works fine minus the eagle.
00:00 Intro
00:10 Majestic E12-6 - 945ft 7pts
02:06 Flight video RR
03:15 Der Big Citation Patriot F20-4W 420ft 7pts
04:36 Flight video RR
05:40 Astron Explorer E12-4 - 765ft 5pts
07:13 Expedition D12-5 - 355ft 7pts
08:27 Flight video RR
09:09 Conquest D12-5 - 5pts
10:06 Flight video 10:48 Mike's Tazz
11:21 Mike's custom rocket
12:54 Gary's Firehawk, A10-3T
13:45 Gary's Mars Leaper, A10-PT
14:20 Gary's Magician, D12-3
16:06 Gary's Terraformer, C11-0
16:47 Mike's Tazz
17:55 Gary's Vortico, C6-0
18:29 Gary's Journeyman, D12-3
19:53 Gary's Mega Mosquito, C11-3
20:15 Gary's Red Flare, D12-5
21:19 Black Brant IV D12-5 - 4pts
22:31 White COC 1/2A3-2T 3pts
23:02 Total 38pts + 10pts = 48pts
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 11,616
- Reaction score
- 6,250
What? No CATOs?
looks like an awesome day! Deborah says Hi, by the way.
Ron, I think this is one of your best video compilations. Great editing, wonderful flight videos and stills. Missed Chris’s background color, though. Was great to virtually attend the launch, thanks for these.
looks like an awesome day! Deborah says Hi, by the way.
Ron, I think this is one of your best video compilations. Great editing, wonderful flight videos and stills. Missed Chris’s background color, though. Was great to virtually attend the launch, thanks for these.
Thanks. It was definitely a great day. Christopher is in Bellingham enjoying the snow.
Similar threads
