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#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
New rockets and successful Nike Smoke flight

When we arrived at the field, there was no wind. By the time we were set up, there was a 10mph wind. I was planning on under 4mph based on the forecast but think there was a front coming in because the rest of the day was cloudy. My general policy is that I stop after losing a rocket which I did with the Multi-Roc. In hindsight, I shoulda reloaded the Little Joe and Starship Nova with C motors and tried those again. I used the recommended motors for each rocket but was underpowered. Both suffered minor damage.

I'm almost finished with painting the Little Joe. While masking the orange fin, I accidently removed the "United States" logo from the side. I can create a new decal but looking for the graphic to print. I think the parachute with the Starship Nova is too big for the BT-50. I'll replace with a 12" chute instead. The wings are easy to reglue so don't think I'll add anything to secure it.

I extended the Nike Smoke's motor mount so I can attach the Booster-60. This was the test run of the modification. In the close up, you can also see the Kevlar cord I previously wrapped around the MM to attach to the shock cord and replace the anchor, which I believe tends to hinder the chute from exiting the tube.

I also used the Dinochute protector with the Flighsketch Mini. This created an awesome graph where you can see the arc over and chute release with no spikes from the sunlight. The only problem is the lack of weather data but not an issue. This was one of the two replacements from Flightsketch after losing one and breaking one. It costs 20 each including shipping which is okay with me. The Multi-Roc arced over like I wanted but not enough to save it. It was interesting that the glider stayed with the sustainer for most of the descent. I found the glider in the yard between the apartments. I asked a resident if there's access to the roof. He said he'll look for me but couldn't find it. The rocket is easy to reproduce. Unfortunately, I just realized we left the booster in the field so will try to find it tomorrow. I switched the ground camera to 1080p/60fps instead of 720p/120fps. More jittery on the slomo but more clarity. The package at the end was my recent order from Apogee. Fortunately, the kits inside survived their failed attempts to destroy fun. Timeline: 00:00 Intro 00:11 Little Joe I 01:22 Starship Nova 02:32 Nike Smoke 300fps 04:04 Multi-Roc #### kuririn ##### BARGeezer TRF Supporter #### 125cc ##### Well-Known Member In my experience, having built several original Gyrocs and one from the BMS clone kit, it's kid of hard NOT to get it spinning a little bit on the way up. Those big thin (1/16 balsa) fins and the relative imprecision of the fit between the tabs and the motor case (not to mention the hinges) all conspire to keep things far from perfectly flat. My Tazz actually surprised me at how little it rolls on the way up, but the way several details are done relative to the original Gyroc addresses some of the potential misalignments..... I've still to fly mine, Built it months ago but been too busy at work plus on and off lockdowns have ruined the little free time I've had. Thoroughly enjoyed building it, interesting design. #### BABAR ##### Builds Rockets for NASA TRF Lifetime Supporter TRF Supporter Losing a rocket isn’t fun. It does teach you to scan the fin templates. #### rklapp ##### NAR# 109557 TRF Supporter I was surprised how little damage the Little Joe suffered. That's a tough little rocket. Despite the hard landing, I coulda easily reloaded a motor and launched again. #### BABAR ##### Builds Rockets for NASA TRF Lifetime Supporter TRF Supporter I was surprised how little damage the Little Joe suffered. That's a tough little rocket. Despite the hard landing, I coulda easily reloaded a motor and launched again. Yeah, watching the flight I was thinking it was about to re-kit itself! #### rklapp ##### NAR# 109557 TRF Supporter Much better success than yesterday. One altimeter and two flight videos... I wasn't going to launch today but realized yesterday that we left the Multi-Roc booster in the park so back we went. The winds were calm so quickly put together several rockets for the park. We were a hour later than yesterday, yet the weather was calm and clear. The Indicator and Little Joe went straight up and straight down. The long delay rockets, Vipox and CC Express went outside of the park. We did get the CC Express back. I've gotten to the point that if a rocket wants to go on an adventure in the canal, then so be it. We drove by the nearby apartment and found the Multi-Roc hanging in a tree. It's not that far off the ground but far enough to prevent kids from taking it, so we'll rescue it tomorrow. We also found the booster that we had left in the park overnight. The first altimeter flight worked but the second and third both had the same garbage readings. It passes the suction test so hopefully it didn't die. Two of the Mars Mars flight photos didn't render properly. Finally got flight videos of the Mars Mars and Protostar after several tries. I suspect the weather was better this time because I didn't bring the BT-80 Mercury Redstone. Obviously, the rocketry gods are displeased with this rocket. Hard to say how well it woulda flown today. Timeline: 00:00 Rescue the Multi-Roc 00:13 Indicator 01:37 Little Joe I 03:02 Vipox 04:19 Starship Nova 05:24 SWAT 06:41 Mars Mars Longship 08:04 Flight video 09:11 Protostar 10:07 Flight video 10:51 CC Express #### BABAR ##### Builds Rockets for NASA TRF Lifetime Supporter TRF Supporter Nice catch! #### SCooke123 ##### Well-Known Member Very cool video = looks like pretty good success! #### rklapp ##### NAR# 109557 TRF Supporter #### rklapp ##### NAR# 109557 TRF Supporter Went back to the park to rescue the Multi-Roc sustainer. It was right off the sidewalk about 12 feet up in a small tree. We had a bamboo stick but realized I could just pull down the tree and remove it, so success! We then went back to the field to launch the Green Vortex to verify the FS altimeter. Because of the wind, we used a B6-4. Yesterday, the altimeter worked with the first launch but then gave almost identical garbage data for the second and third launch. At home, it works perfectly using the suction test. You can see the recent results under my user name at flightsketch.com. @BEC has been very helpful in helping me troubleshooting the altimeter. The results seem normal and accurate. I didn't bring the full kit and only loaded one motor to test. I shoulda brought more to test if the altimeter didn't fully reset itself after the first flight. I'll have to try it again next time to see if I can replicate the garbage data. Its annoying when the equipment works fine at home but fails in the field. #### BEC ##### Well-Known Member Yeah, that looks like a reasonable set of data for a heavy draggy model on a B6-4 in the breeze...so the ejection was a little over the top. And then there was the usual chaos at ejection with all the bits and pieces banging into each other until the ’chute gets open and things stabilize a bit. Glad you got the Multi-Roc back. It’s a neat model and I’ve flown mine quite a bit in all three possible with-payload-section configurations. Agree about stuff that doesn’t work at the field after working well at home. Frustration, indeed. Last edited: #### neil_w ##### Marginally Stable TRF Supporter Another nice set of flights. I am truly jealous of how often you manage to get out there. And then just to rub it in you have the nerve to do it in Hawaii of all places. Yeesh. If I may make one small suggestion: always prop your rockets above the blast deflector for your launches. All you need to do is thread an old spent motor casing onto the rod, or clip a clothespin onto the rod, and you're good to go. For the rockets you've launched so far it doesn't matter, although there is no downside and it will save some wear and tear on your blast deflector. But one day you're going to fly a rocket that has the potential to Bernoulli lock, and you're going to forget to prop it up because you won't be in the habit, and it will be sad. OK I'm going to make a couple of additional suggestion as well: 1) Try adding a saucer to your arsenal. I'm especially fond of my Quinstar, which was a very enjoyable build (put a 24mm mount in it!), but there are obviously others as well. Apart from being pretty much guaranteed to be recovered in almost any conditions, it's incredibly refreshing to be able to just pop in a motor and go, no wadding, no parachute, no nothing. 2) The Odd'l Cyclone is enormously fun and is similarly easy to prep. The maple seed recovery works really well, and it is amazing how slow it comes down, spinning furiously. Unlike a traditional helicopter rocket, there's no fiddly mechanism and it works every time. #### BEC ##### Well-Known Member Second the Quinstar. Putting a 24mm mount in it as Neil suggests is mainly a matter of leaving out a couple of parts. I haven’t tried the Cyclone, but it looks interesting, and Roger has some in stock I see. There’s also the Semroc Jupiter-B. You already have the Twin Factor, which of course doesn’t go very far even flown A to A, so you’re experienced with saucer types to some degree. Once you and that FS Mini make better friends you can put it on one of your airborne video rockets and then overlay the data on the flight video like this: Last edited: #### rklapp ##### NAR# 109557 TRF Supporter If I may make one small suggestion: always prop your rockets above the blast deflector for your launches. All you need to do is thread an old spent motor casing onto the rod, or clip a clothespin onto the rod, and you're good to go. For the rockets you've launched so far it doesn't matter, although there is no downside and it will save some wear and tear on your blast deflector. But one day you're going to fly a rocket that has the potential to Bernoulli lock, and you're going to forget to prop it up because you won't be in the habit, and it will be sad. For the past month, I've been using sanding discs on top of the plate. This has produced some interesting exhaust plumes. Plus the disc is non-conductive so doesn't interfere with the starters. I'll keep using the discs with the LPR unless you think it's potentially catastrophic and could cause injury. OK I'm going to make a couple of additional suggestion as well: 1) Try adding a saucer to your arsenal. I'm especially fond of my Quinstar, which was a very enjoyable build (put a 24mm mount in it!), but there are obviously others as well. Apart from being pretty much guaranteed to be recovered in almost any conditions, it's incredibly refreshing to be able to just pop in a motor and go, no wadding, no parachute, no nothing. 2) The Odd'l Cyclone is enormously fun and is similarly easy to prep. The maple seed recovery works really well, and it is amazing how slow it comes down, spinning furiously. Unlike a traditional helicopter rocket, there's no fiddly mechanism and it works every time. I tried to buy a Quinstar during the Estes cybermonday deal. I apparently had it in the Cart but forgot to hit Buy. I was also going to buy all of the rockets on sale for7 each so I could use them to test the wind with a C6. As they say, there's always next year...

I have a number of windy day rockets I like to launch: Vertigo, Lunar Probe, Twin Factor, Orange Bullet, Mini Fatboy, Mini Hojo, and the other A10 rockets. The pisser is when the forecast calls for low wind like on Friday and high wind on Saturday. Turned out to be the opposite...

I try to start out low and work my way up. The Indicator (C6) and Little Joe (C6) went straight up and straight down. The Vipox (C6) decided it wanted to go on an adventure into the canal. I realized afterwards that the water level in the canal was low, and I coulda easily retrieved it but my son didn't tell me after he went to look. Lesson learned...

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
@neil_w, I have obtained a D21-4T motor. I believe you suggested I use it with Estes Shuttle but I lost the glider. I have a Semroc glider and is a lot lighter so not sure if the D21 is necessary. I could use it with the MD-80 Mercury Redstone, SWAT, or Big Daddy. Suggestions?

#### neil_w

##### Marginally Stable
TRF Supporter
For the past month, I've been using sanding discs on top of the plate. This has produced some interesting exhaust plumes. Plus the disc is non-conductive so doesn't interfere with the starters. I'll keep using the discs with the LPR unless you think it's potentially catastrophic and could cause injury.
No, I don't think there's any problem per se with what you're doing now. I was just suggesting that propping the rockets up as a matter of habit is a good practice that costs nothing.

#### neil_w

##### Marginally Stable
TRF Supporter
I haven’t tried the Cyclone, but it looks interesting, and Roger has some in stock I see. There’s also the Semroc Jupiter-B.
Try it, I promise you'll enjoy it. If not send me the bill.

#### BEC

##### Well-Known Member
Try it, I promise you'll enjoy it. If not send me the bill.
OK - that's as good as any excuse to make an order to jonrocket.com....

#### neil_w

##### Marginally Stable
TRF Supporter
OK - that's as good as any excuse to make an order to jonrocket.com....
Please report back.

#### kuririn

##### BARGeezer
TRF Supporter
I could use it with the MD-80 Mercury Redstone, SWAT, or Big Daddy. Suggestions?
If you have .ork files for those then try simming in OR.
Besides CG with the heavier motor, speed off the rod and optimal delay would be what I would look at. And apogee. Don't want to lose it.
Also be sure the motor mount can handle the kick of a composite motor.
I put an AT 18mm D in an Estes Sidewinder clone and it ripped the motor mount from the airframe. The thrust coming from the front of the rocket resulted in a U turn and power prang on the asphalt road by the park.
Hard lesson learned.

#### kuririn

##### BARGeezer
TRF Supporter
Forecast is light and variable winds for this Friday, buds.

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
Yeah, scattered showers. Got my eye on the forecast...

Still trying to decide which rocket to put the D21-4T into...

#### BEC

##### Well-Known Member
With an 18-24mm adapter, any rocket you have that you would otherwise use an Estes D12-5 in. It’ll get off faster, but likely won’t go significantly higher (drag goes up with the square of velocity) though the additional total impulse may overcome that, depending on the model.

Also, be aware that Aerotech delays tend to be at least as long as indicated, while Estes delays tend to be a bit short. So you might actually get a longer coast period with the D21-4 than a D12-5.

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
Either the Estes Shuttle minus the glider or the BT-80 Mercury Redstone...

#### hcmbanjo

##### Well-Known Member
OK - that's as good as any excuse to make an order to jonrocket.com....
On the Odd'l Cyclone -
Be sure to use the 1/2A for your first flight. The lower section comes down fairly quick,
but the upper (single fin) section hovers! I've seen them drift on a windy day.
The fins are long and thin, Run a line of glue down the leading edge. Don't go heavy with the glue,
add a bit to strengthen them a little. Helicopters best if markers are used to keep it light, like a boost glider.
Listen for a whistle as it goes up - sometimes you can hear it -

#### jrap330

##### Retired Engineer, NAR # 76940
TRF Supporter
Much better success than yesterday. One altimeter and two flight videos...

I wasn't going to launch today but realized yesterday that we left the Multi-Roc booster in the park so back we went. The winds were calm so quickly put together several rockets for the park. We were a hour later than yesterday, yet the weather was calm and clear.

The Indicator and Little Joe went straight up and straight down. The long delay rockets, Vipox and CC Express went outside of the park. We did get the CC Express back. I've gotten to the point that if a rocket wants to go on an adventure in the canal, then so be it.

We drove by the nearby apartment and found the Multi-Roc hanging in a tree. It's not that far off the ground but far enough to prevent kids from taking it, so we'll rescue it tomorrow. We also found the booster that we had left in the park overnight.

The first altimeter flight worked but the second and third both had the same garbage readings. It passes the suction test so hopefully it didn't die. Two of the Mars Mars flight photos didn't render properly.

Finally got flight videos of the Mars Mars and Protostar after several tries. I suspect the weather was better this time because I didn't bring the BT-80 Mercury Redstone. Obviously, the rocketry gods are displeased with this rocket. Hard to say how well it woulda flown today.

Timeline:
00:00 Rescue the Multi-Roc
00:13 Indicator
01:37 Little Joe I
03:02 Vipox
04:19 Starship Nova
05:24 SWAT
06:41 Mars Mars Longship
08:04 Flight video
09:11 Protostar
10:07 Flight video
10:51 CC Express

I am amazed at the quality of flight on Little Joe II, as you stated a tough little rocket. Why did you risk two C engines on CC Express with your field....could you not use a B6 is the sustainer?

#### Back_at_it

##### Well-Known Member
I am amazed at the quality of flight on Little Joe II, as you stated a tough little rocket. Why did you risk two C engines on CC Express with your field....could you not use a B6 is the sustainer?
Agreed. I was just about to comment on the Little Joe flight when I saw this reply. For a short fat rocket, the Little Joe is an excellent flier. I've got 6 flights on mine and finally settled in on the C6-5 as my motor of choice. The delay on the C6-3 and C5-3 are just a hair short for my liking. Mine was visibly climbing and no where near apogee when the chute popped on the C5-3 and tore off a couple lines on the chute. Easy repair.

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
I am amazed at the quality of flight on Little Joe II, as you stated a tough little rocket. Why did you risk two C engines on CC Express with your field....could you not use a B6 is the sustainer?
It flew well with C11-0/C11-3 but ripped the shroud lines off so tried again with C11-7. I agree the B6-6 would be better.

Agreed. I was just about to comment on the Little Joe flight when I saw this reply. For a short fat rocket, the Little Joe is an excellent flier. I've got 6 flights on mine and finally settled in on the C6-5 as my motor of choice. The delay on the C6-3 and C5-3 are just a hair short for my liking. Mine was visibly climbing and no where near apogee when the chute popped on the C5-3 and tore off a couple lines on the chute. Easy repair.
The C5-3 gives a straighter flight. The chute popped right after apogee. It did not do well with the B6-4. I can see how the C6-5 would be better with more wind.

#### rklapp

##### NAR# 109557
TRF Supporter
Finally finished the paint job on Little Joe. Managed to rip off the decals on both sides so replaced with Saturn decals. I’ll launch it tomorrow with C6-5. You guys better be right...

Picked up D12-0 and others from LHS. Don’t think they’ll ever sell the D12-7 they have in stock. Finally realized the Booster-60 says is requires D12-0. Doh!