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rklapp

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Did you pay a hazmat fee? ;)

Anyway: underpowered in what way? E12s will burn longer and go higher than D12 but will be slower off the rail than a D12, due to the significant extra weight of the motor. If you want more kick off the rod you need something like an Aerotech D21 (there still may be some stock out there) or an Aerotech E15/E20, but I'd be nervous about how high that might send your rocket in a small field.
Should I try for a D21 or E30?
 

mikewrt

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Didn’t use enough masking tape on the motor for the 1st stage...
But made for great meteorite action on the slow mo! Darn near hit the camera and pad! Bummer about the Multi-Roc, I'm glad the sustainer wasn't any closer to you son when the ejection charge fired. Looked similar to the Supernova from the last video. You've had a couple nice skywriters lately! Thanks for the videos and Merry Christmas to your family!
 

BABAR

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Didn’t use enough masking tape on the motor for the 1st stage...
By “1st stage” you mean the booster? That would be correct terminology (for some reason my mind naturally and incorrectly often thinks of the sustainer, since it is in real life the primary purpose of being for a mission oriented rocket, as #1 and therefore the first stage.” It is just a bit unusual as the forces on the booster usually don’t lead to motor ejection.
 

rklapp

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But made for great meteorite action on the slow mo! Darn near hit the camera and pad! Bummer about the Multi-Roc, I'm glad the sustainer wasn't any closer to you son when the ejection charge fired. Looked similar to the Supernova from the last video. You've had a couple nice skywriters lately! Thanks for the videos and Merry Christmas to your family!
He’s had several close calls but he’s wearing a brim hat. The shocking one was the egg lofter than went ballistic and stuck in the mud about 5 inches. Safety first!

The C6-7 is an excellent skywriter.

By “1st stage” you mean the booster? That would be correct terminology (for some reason my mind naturally and incorrectly often thinks of the sustainer, since it is in real life the primary purpose of being for a mission oriented rocket, as #1 and therefore the first stage.” It is just a bit unusual as the forces on the booster usually don’t lead to motor ejection.
Upper/lower, 1st/2nd, main/booster, it’s all rocket science to me...

I was surprised that it popped out of the booster. Hadn’t happened before...
 

neil_w

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Should I try for a D21 or E30?
Either one will get it moving off the rod pretty good. The E30 will really punch it; the D21 won't go as high (obviously), which could be good for a first test, but I don't know how hard it'll be to find D21s in stock anywhere.

It would be great to see a report from someone who's used either of these, but I haven't found any yet.
 

rklapp

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Model Rockets: Some went up, some went sideways and two flight videos

Another mild wind day. It was forecasted to be 2mph but more like 6. My son was not feeling well and was hiding from the sun. The rockets were going in different directions so difficult to predict where they're going. I bought a new mini camera (SQ23) that worked 2 out of 3 tries. The old SQ11 weighed 7g and this weighs 17g so it's stockier and hopefully can take the abuse. It also appears to be easier to operate.

The Indicator with 18mm MM suffered a BT blow out. My guess is that the back pressure from the transition baffle was too much. I recently bought a 12" drill bit so will make holes in the transition to allow more pressure to reach the NC. The Tarmon worked great. It fortunately missed the trees and landed in the street where a resident picked it up and handed to me. Don't see any damage except for the ripped chute. A C6-5 is too much for a 10" plastic chute.

For the Multi-Roc, I added masking tape to the NC shoulder, so it doesn't suffer from premature ejection (heh). I also reattached a new connector for the glider. It's hard to see on the video, but the glider was circling around the rocket a couple times before falling straight down. I'm not sure I want it to glide further than that.

The Interceptor launch and flight were awesome. I think the Cobra won the closest to the launch pad landing award. You can kinda see the repair I made to the fin after the previous launch a couple weeks ago.

The Booster-60 failed again but with the B6-4 instead of the A8-5. I need to add more weight to the NC to counter weigh the booster. The NC has a eyelet hook with a 6" BT. The shoulder (and main tube) was damaged in the landing. I could hook an added weight to the eyelet when using the booster. You can see in the background the guys who rescued the rocket from the tree last week. Fortunately this time, it landed beyond the trees and into an apartment yard.

Unfortunately, the Flightsketch Mini was damaged in the landing. It can turn on/off but not read altitude. I've tried emailing Flightsketch about other issues, and they're not responding. There's no phone number on their website so not happy with their customer service so far.

The nylon chute worked great with the Protostar. Last time, it got tangled on the pods but the fins stayed on. The Big Daddy almost lawn darted. The chute popped out in plenty of time. Needless to say, we decided not to launch the CC Express (C11-0/C11-7) and the Mercury Redstone XL (E12-4) so saved for another day.

Timeline:
00:00 Indicator
01:17 Tarmon
02:37 Multi-Roc
04:26 Interceptor
05:20 Flight video
06:08 Cobra
07:01 Flight video
07:38 AIM-9 Sidewinder
08:26 Protostar
09:36 Big Daddy

 

rklapp

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So the Booster-60 hasn’t worked on the Sidewinder. I might need more NC weight. OR said it should be stable. Click on the Sidewinder link to see the result.

The booster with the C11-0 weighs 80g. I want to be able to remove the weight when not using the booster. I think a detachable bulkhead might be too complicated for a BT-55.

I attached a Kevlar to the eyelet inside the NC assembly. What removable weight should I use and how much? I'm thinking of something I can clip on but any ideas are useful.

16FEEBCC-4E1C-4BD1-BA23-BBB01BCABD54.jpeg
 

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rklapp

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Finally heard back from Flightsketch. They have a warranty policy but not easy to find on their page. It's $20 to replace lost/broken altimeters. He said they're sensitive to sun which makes sense looking at the data. They have the pouches back in stock but ordered 2 from Apogee because I also bought the V2 conversion kit.
 

mikewrt

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Model Rockets: Some went up, some went sideways and two flight videos

Another mild wind day. It was forecasted to be 2mph but more like 6. My son was not feeling well and was hiding from the sun.
So the Booster-60 hasn’t worked on the Sidewinder. I might need more NC weight. OR said it should be stable. Click on the Sidewinder link to see the result.

The booster with the C11-0 weighs 80g. I want to be able to remove the weight when not using the booster. I think a detachable bulkhead might be too complicated for a BT-55.

I attached a Kevlar to the eyelet inside the NC assembly. What removable weight should I use and how much? I'm thinking of something I can clip on but any ideas are useful.

View attachment 444470

Again, another fine video! Thank you for sharing!
As far as the AIM-9 with booster I'll start by saying I'm no expert but I think you might be a little under powered with the C11-0 in the booster and aren't getting high enough rod exit velocity to get stable. Per your ORK the AIM-9 (115g) with a B6-4 (17.8g) is 133g (rounding up) + the booster (52g)...... 133g + 52g = 185g
Per the 2020 Estes catalog on my desk the max lift weight for the C11-0 is 170g.
The simulation in your ORK file shows the rod exit velocity is 11.7 m/s. As you are aware there are many factors that play into safe minimum rod exit velocity but if you are using the general rule of thumb of 14 to 15 m/s looks like you might be a tad slow. Do you have the Open Rocket launch simulation preferences configured correctly, especially rod length correct in open rocket?
I think you might need moooo powa in the booster.
Someone please correct me if I'm reading this all wrong so I can edit/trash....

Edit: I just ran a new simulation using a D12-0 in the booster and rod exit velocity shows 14 m/s. Maybe an open rocket guru like @neil_w or @K'Tesh or others will chime in with some advice.
 
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BABAR

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Model Rockets: Some went up, some went sideways and two flight videos

Another mild wind day. It was forecasted to be 2mph but more like 6. My son was not feeling well and was hiding from the sun. The rockets were going in different directions so difficult to predict where they're going. I bought a new mini camera (SQ23) that worked 2 out of 3 tries. The old SQ11 weighed 7g and this weighs 17g so it's stockier and hopefully can take the abuse. It also appears to be easier to operate.

The Indicator with 18mm MM suffered a BT blow out. My guess is that the back pressure from the transition baffle was too much. I recently bought a 12" drill bit so will make holes in the transition to allow more pressure to reach the NC. The Tarmon worked great. It fortunately missed the trees and landed in the street where a resident picked it up and handed to me. Don't see any damage except for the ripped chute. A C6-5 is too much for a 10" plastic chute.

For the Multi-Roc, I added masking tape to the NC shoulder, so it doesn't suffer from premature ejection (heh). I also reattached a new connector for the glider. It's hard to see on the video, but the glider was circling around the rocket a couple times before falling straight down. I'm not sure I want it to glide further than that.

The Interceptor launch and flight were awesome. I think the Cobra won the closest to the launch pad landing award. You can kinda see the repair I made to the fin after the previous launch a couple weeks ago.

The Booster-60 failed again but with the B6-4 instead of the A8-5. I need to add more weight to the NC to counter weigh the booster. The NC has a eyelet hook with a 6" BT. The shoulder (and main tube) was damaged in the landing. I could hook an added weight to the eyelet when using the booster. You can see in the background the guys who rescued the rocket from the tree last week. Fortunately this time, it landed beyond the trees and into an apartment yard.

Unfortunately, the Flightsketch Mini was damaged in the landing. It can turn on/off but not read altitude. I've tried emailing Flightsketch about other issues, and they're not responding. There's no phone number on their website so not happy with their customer service so far.

The nylon chute worked great with the Protostar. Last time, it got tangled on the pods but the fins stayed on. The Big Daddy almost lawn darted. The chute popped out in plenty of time. Needless to say, we decided not to launch the CC Express (C11-0/C11-7) and the Mercury Redstone XL (E12-4) so saved for another day.

Timeline:
00:00 Indicator
01:17 Tarmon
02:37 Multi-Roc
04:26 Interceptor
05:20 Flight video
06:08 Cobra
07:01 Flight video
07:38 AIM-9 Sidewinder
08:26 Protostar
09:36 Big Daddy

Nice, as usual.

What prompted the “Ouch!” During th Big Daddy ascent?

Cobra was definitely close to the pad, but if I remember right, I think you had a Bat Rocket booster hit the pad leg.

Impressive recovery on the MultiRoc. I don’t think I have seen a three piece rocket where all three parts landed so close together. I have however seen a one piece rocket land in three pieces fairly close together.

Hope your son gets better soon. Kind of funny that your son stays out of the sun.
 

rklapp

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Again, another fine video! Thank you for sharing!
As far as the AIM-9 with booster I'll start by saying I'm no expert but I think you might be a little under powered with the C11-0 in the booster and aren't getting high enough rod exit velocity to get stable. Per your ORK the AIM-9 (115g) with a B6-4 (17.8g) is 133g (rounding up) + the booster (52g)...... 133g + 52g = 185g
Per the 2020 Estes catalog on my desk the max lift weight for the C11-0 is 170g.
The simulation in your ORK file shows the rod exit velocity is 11.7 m/s. As you are aware there are many factors that play into safe minimum rod exit velocity but if you are using the general rule of thumb of 14 to 15 m/s looks like you might be a tad slow. Do you have the Open Rocket launch simulation preferences configured correctly, especially rod length correct in open rocket?
I think you might need moooo powa in the booster.
Someone please correct me if I'm reading this all wrong so I can edit/trash....

Edit: I just ran a new simulation using a D12-0 in the booster and rod exit velocity shows 14 m/s. Maybe an open rocket guru like @neil_w or @K'Tesh or others will chime in with some advice.
1609365477709.png


I subsequently saw the Savage in the catalog that looks like it uses a similar booster and recs a D12-0 so I think you're right. I won't bother adding weight to the NC assembly. I have several C11-0 but no D12-0. Should I try the C11-0 on the Exocet (the only other rocket I have with a retainer that would fit the adapter but I'll need to run the sim) or buy the D12-0? I think the LHS has D12-0 available.

Nice, as usual.

What prompted the “Ouch!” During th Big Daddy ascent?

Cobra was definitely close to the pad, but if I remember right, I think you had a Bat Rocket booster hit the pad leg.

Impressive recovery on the MultiRoc. I don’t think I have seen a three piece rocket where all three parts landed so close together. I have however seen a one piece rocket land in three pieces fairly close together.

Hope your son gets better soon. Kind of funny that your son stays out of the sun.
The loudness of the D12-5 flying over his head. I should measure the decibels some day. Personally, I think the C11-3 is louder for some reason.

There was a thread that asked the question if anyone's rocket ever landed on the pad. I mentioned my ASM but he said streamers don't count so probably not. It was interesting when the camera shook from the impact of the booster. There's another YouTuber who puts out many small videos. He posted a fun one from this morning. The annoying part about his videos (and many others) is that he doesn't show the ultimate result.


He's fine. He ordered a portable AC in September and it finally arrived yesterday so he's happy. UPS dropped it off which probably cost Amazon more than the AC.
 

rklapp

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Starship Nova. I discovered that in the shipment, something pierced the packaging and mangled the top fin. Instead of returning, decided to replace from my balsa stock. The curve was harder to cut than I thought so a bit wonky.

42EBF188-04CC-460C-8811-CC70D91E04B0.jpeg
 

rklapp

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Loadstar clone. I may have overextended with 24mm so plan to use engine adapters with B6-0/B6-4. I plan to put the cube camera and altimeter in the payload. I’m almost finished with the Little Joe I.

6FFF25A0-A35F-4096-888A-696401B5BA36.jpeg
 

BABAR

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Loadstar clone. I may have overextended with 24mm so plan to use engine adapters with B6-0/B6-4. I plan to put the cube camera and altimeter in the payload. I’m almost finished with the Little Joe I.

View attachment 445418
Check your max lift off weight for the booster, especially if you put an altimeter or camera on the sustainer. I think a B6-0 or C6-0 may be borderline at best for booster. I think you would be better with a 24 mm D12-0, or a 0 delay 24 mm C if you can get it. Still hoping Estes will get around to an 18 mm C5-0......

Adapting down to an 18 mm A or even a 1/2 A for sustainer may be good for first flight.
 

BABAR

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Reference this thread post 36

 

rklapp

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Check your max lift off weight for the booster, especially if you put an altimeter or camera on the sustainer. I think a B6-0 or C6-0 may be borderline at best for booster. I think you would be better with a 24 mm D12-0, or a 0 delay 24 mm C if you can get it. Still hoping Estes will get around to an 18 mm C5-0......

Adapting down to an 18 mm A or even a 1/2 A for sustainer may be good for first flight.
Cool. So I blundered onto the solution by installing 24mm mounts. I think this is also the problem I’ve been having with adding the booster to the Sidewinder. It needs the D12-0 to get pointed in the up position.

Per OR sim, I added 12g of weight to the NC but thinking I need to remove it. I’ll run more sims. Winds are favorable this Friday.

Bill Stine promised the C5-0 at last years NAR Convention. I wonder if he’ll mention it again at the end of January.
 

mbeels

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Finally converted the SWAT/Interceptor to 24mm. I cut off the rear nozzle.
That's a much better mount for that rocket. I remember launching a S.W.A.T. with a friend when I was much younger on a B something, it got off the launch rod and kind of hovered / skitted around the baseball diamond before lawn-darting somewhere around 2nd base.
 

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That's a much better mount for that rocket. I remember launching a S.W.A.T. with a friend when I was much younger on a B something, it got off the launch rod and kind of hovered / skitted around the baseball diamond before lawn-darting somewhere around 2nd base.
That's better than some of my high school dates.......
 

rklapp

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That's a much better mount for that rocket. I remember launching a S.W.A.T. with a friend when I was much younger on a B something, it got off the launch rod and kind of hovered / skitted around the baseball diamond before lawn-darting somewhere around 2nd base.
It worked pretty well with the C5-3. I can imagine a B would go heat-seaker mode.

Check your max lift off weight for the booster, especially if you put an altimeter or camera on the sustainer. I think a B6-0 or C6-0 may be borderline at best for booster. I think you would be better with a 24 mm D12-0, or a 0 delay 24 mm C if you can get it. Still hoping Estes will get around to an 18 mm C5-0......

Adapting down to an 18 mm A or even a 1/2 A for sustainer may be good for first flight.
I tried to drill out the clay I inserted into the balsa NC but didn't work. I'm replacing with a smaller balsa NC that weighs 13g.
 

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Model Rockets: Some went up, some went sideways and two flight videos

Another mild wind day. It was forecasted to be 2mph but more like 6. My son was not feeling well and was hiding from the sun. The rockets were going in different directions so difficult to predict where they're going. I bought a new mini camera (SQ23) that worked 2 out of 3 tries. The old SQ11 weighed 7g and this weighs 17g so it's stockier and hopefully can take the abuse. It also appears to be easier to operate.

The Indicator with 18mm MM suffered a BT blow out. My guess is that the back pressure from the transition baffle was too much. I recently bought a 12" drill bit so will make holes in the transition to allow more pressure to reach the NC. The Tarmon worked great. It fortunately missed the trees and landed in the street where a resident picked it up and handed to me. Don't see any damage except for the ripped chute. A C6-5 is too much for a 10" plastic chute.

For the Multi-Roc, I added masking tape to the NC shoulder, so it doesn't suffer from premature ejection (heh). I also reattached a new connector for the glider. It's hard to see on the video, but the glider was circling around the rocket a couple times before falling straight down. I'm not sure I want it to glide further than that.

The Interceptor launch and flight were awesome. I think the Cobra won the closest to the launch pad landing award. You can kinda see the repair I made to the fin after the previous launch a couple weeks ago.

The Booster-60 failed again but with the B6-4 instead of the A8-5. I need to add more weight to the NC to counter weigh the booster. The NC has a eyelet hook with a 6" BT. The shoulder (and main tube) was damaged in the landing. I could hook an added weight to the eyelet when using the booster. You can see in the background the guys who rescued the rocket from the tree last week. Fortunately this time, it landed beyond the trees and into an apartment yard.

Unfortunately, the Flightsketch Mini was damaged in the landing. It can turn on/off but not read altitude. I've tried emailing Flightsketch about other issues, and they're not responding. There's no phone number on their website so not happy with their customer service so far.

The nylon chute worked great with the Protostar. Last time, it got tangled on the pods but the fins stayed on. The Big Daddy almost lawn darted. The chute popped out in plenty of time. Needless to say, we decided not to launch the CC Express (C11-0/C11-7) and the Mercury Redstone XL (E12-4) so saved for another day.

Timeline:
00:00 Indicator
01:17 Tarmon
02:37 Multi-Roc
04:26 Interceptor
05:20 Flight video
06:08 Cobra
07:01 Flight video
07:38 AIM-9 Sidewinder
08:26 Protostar
09:36 Big Daddy

I want to say maybe 2 stage sidewinder bad idea....booster added too much weight? I love how it flies on C6-3. I brought a 2nd one for D power but not sure based on my field size.
 

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I want to say maybe 2 stage sidewinder bad idea....booster added too much weight? I love how it flies on C6-3. I brought a 2nd one for D power but not sure based on my field size.
That's what we were discussing. I was originally thinking I need to add NC weight to counteract the booster weight. @mikewrt indicated the C11-0 is too slow off the rod and suggested a D12-0 and @BABAR suggested an A motor for the sustainer. This makes sense.

I can also use the booster-60 on the Exocet and Nike Smoke rockets so might try D12-0 and A8-5 but need to get the D12-0. I have 150m field to work with and have been pushing the envelope lately. I did lose the Honest John and the glider from the Shuttle. I also lost two altimeters but those have been replaced by Flightsketch. It's all good fun...
 

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I just stumbled into this thread after finding some of Ron's logs on the Flightsketch web site....

Sometimes I see the download hang like that (or earlier). First thing to try is killing the app and then downloading again (the data will be in the Mini until you arm it for launch again). Sometimes power cycling the Mini is also necessary. Again the data will be saved until you arm it for launch again.

Once it fully downloads, I always save locally and try to upload to the online log before flying again. Doing it both ways improves the chances of getting back to the data later. I have had mixed success with the Android app actually getting the data saved locally, but my iPhone has not had this issue. The files can be found in the FlightSketch folder via the Files app on iOS. From the screen shot, it looks like you're using an iPhone.

No need to subtract....though that does make me wonder a little bit about where the altimeter was when you were trying to download relative to where it was when first powered up. The max altitude (be aware that with the current firmware this may also reflect spikes in the data from either sudden pressure changes, sudden physical shocks or, possibly, bright sunlight hitting the pressure sensor) will be relative to the altitude recorded just before the flight, so it should be relative to the on-pad position.

First time with the Flightsketch. Asking you all before tech support. I took a picture of the results but got stuck on Downloading... 100%. It wasn't showing up in the Logbook and doesn't show up in the website. I kept it running but filmed other launches.

Also, am I supposed to subtract the Current Altitude from the Max Altitude?

View attachment 441888
 

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Afterwards, I realized I forgot to turn off the altimeter using the app. I'm not sure if it has an auto off feature.
No, it doesn't. A fresh cell will last a couple of days, though.

I need to figure out how to secure the altimeter so it doesn't have the spikes in the graph.
Protect it from the sun, from whipping around in the air after ejection (if not in a payload section) and if it is in a payload section, make sure it can't rattle around. The payload section, when used, should have three or four small holes to serve as static ports.

A payload section spinning under a chute will put ripples in the altitude curve on descent, even if the Mini isn't rattling around inside. This is from the pressure variations as it spins.
 

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Great video! Now I'm going to have to go back and read this whole thread.

I am absolutely amazed you launched that Multi-Roc C to B with the glider and all three parts are only a short walk away. Also, was that really C11 in the booster? Did you mod the booster for 24mm motors? (and yes, feel free to tell me the answer is further up in the thread if it is....I will start reading the whole thing now).
 

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Several epic launches today. Winds should also be favorable tomorrow morning.

Definitely an A10-0T CATO on the Mini Commanche. I have had quite a few of these, all from a particular very recent batch of A10-0Ts, mostly in my Checkmate. Did you file a MESS report on that one?

Fortunately (mostly) even when an A10-0T CATOs like that, it lights the sustainer and IT flies away from the fire just fine.
 

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I'm becoming enamored of the idea of setting up the tabs so that there's a slight cant on ascent, which I think should really help. Haven't looked at the instructions, I'm not sure exactly how to do it, but I bet it would be good.
In my experience, having built several original Gyrocs and one from the BMS clone kit, it's kid of hard NOT to get it spinning a little bit on the way up. Those big thin (1/16 balsa) fins and the relative imprecision of the fit between the tabs and the motor case (not to mention the hinges) all conspire to keep things far from perfectly flat.

My Tazz actually surprised me at how little it rolls on the way up, but the way several details are done relative to the original Gyroc addresses some of the potential misalignments.....
 

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Great video! Now I'm going to have to go back and read this whole thread.

I am absolutely amazed you launched that Multi-Roc C to B with the glider and all three parts are only a short walk away. Also, was that really C11 in the booster? Did you mod the booster for 24mm motors? (and yes, feel free to tell me the answer is further up in the thread if it is....I will start reading the whole thing now).
Yeah, I got confused with the Sidewinder and realized it was the B6-0. I mentioned in the YouTube description. Other than subtitles, there's no easy way too correct the video without redownloading a new video, unfortunately.

Definitely an A10-0T CATO on the Mini Commanche. I have had quite a few of these, all from a particular very recent batch of A10-0Ts, mostly in my Checkmate. Did you file a MESS report on that one?

Fortunately (mostly) even when an A10-0T CATOs like that, it lights the sustainer and IT flies away from the fire just fine.
No but Estes mailed me replacement motors. I should...

In my experience, having built several original Gyrocs and one from the BMS clone kit, it's kid of hard NOT to get it spinning a little bit on the way up. Those big thin (1/16 balsa) fins and the relative imprecision of the fit between the tabs and the motor case (not to mention the hinges) all conspire to keep things far from perfectly flat.

My Tazz actually surprised me at how little it rolls on the way up, but the way several details are done relative to the original Gyroc addresses some of the potential misalignments.....
My Gyroc is a clone and haven't bothered adding the tabs to the MM. The torque hasn't broken the fins yet.

Thanks for watching.
 
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