U.S. Rockets NEW website updates

[Jerry Irvine]

Today's updates were deleted by moderators, so this thread is ended by ME.

Jerry

 

[Austin]

Originally posted by Jerry Irvine
Today's updates were deleted by moderators, so this thread is ended by ME.

Jerry

Why, yes they were as they contained political slams instead of normal updates. We ask that you post within our guidelines next time.

Have a great day!

Carl

 

[lalligood]

I don't get it. Someone makes what was little more than a tongue-in-cheek comment (I do believe earlier today I saw the now removed post in this thread) from this thread yet some can give downright dangerous misinformation about shipping reloads, which is allowed to stay.
Am I being cynical or looking to "stir the pot"? I don't think so--not intentionally anyway. I'm just looking for some equality for all members here. I do not feel that mods ruling with an iron fist is the answer here, as there was at least part of the post that could have been usefully salvaged (like the website link) if the "inappropriate" comment(s) were removed. Surely there is some middle ground that can be achieved going forward.

These comments/opinions stated above are all mine and are only representative of me & my feelings. Thank you.

 

[KermieD]

Jerry's more than welcome to repost the website link without the political baggage that goes into it. We're very hesitant as a rule to actually edit posts as we don't want to be responsible for changing the content or viepoint of a particular post. The no politics rule, though, has been out there from the inception of the forum and posts containing politically oriented argument, humorous or no, have been pulled, regardless of originator.

The other thread you mentioned is being discussed and will be addressed shortly.

 

[Austin]

Lance,

Thank you for your opinion, but realize there is no middle ground with our decisions with regards to politics or other posts we pull. While you may not agree with them, there is no negotiation on this part and our decision is final. Also, all our members get a fair chance to post their information on the forum and they have been doing so now for the last 3+ years and near 160,000 posts!

If you feel we are targeting Jerry or other members, you couldn't be more wrong! We have come to his and many of our other members defense on more than one occasion in the past, pulling threads or posts that are derogatory toward these members. In contrast, maybe you could tell me why some members, knowing well the rules, still challenge them, bypass them or ignore them completely...good question, huh?

Also as Kermie mentioned, we do not normally edit posts, we pull them. As of late, some of our members have tried to test our rules. Note that while you may disagree with decisions to remove posts, it is the duty and right of the forum staff to moderate the forums as they see fit. After all, it is a moderated forum. There is no arbitration between the member and the staff on questionable posts; only a discussion between staff members occurs and decisions are not made by a single staff member but by the whole team. All members agree to the terms and understand this is a moderated forum when they join. Fortunately, our membership is one of the best I have ever seen, with members from children to the elderly, all enjoying the camaraderie and common interest we all share in the hobby of rocketry. That's what it's all about, learning, sharing and helping each other enjoy the hobby with the help of our fantastic team of moderators to keep it a family oriented forum and the premier rocketry forum on the web!

Carl

 

[lalligood]

Originally posted by CTulanko
Lance,

Thank you for your opinion, but realize there is no middle ground with our decisions with regards to politics or other posts we pull. While you may not agree with them, there is no negotiation on this part and our decision is final. Also, all our members get a fair chance to post their information on the forum and they have been doing so now for the last 3+ years and near 160,000 posts!

Kermie & Carl,

Thank you for your reponses. To me, this is a battle not big enough worth fighting over as I do greatly enjoy being an active part of this forum & community. At the time I made my previous post here, I wasn't happy with the action taken. Now I have calmed down (although I was hardly riled up!) and your explanations have provided me with a better picture of your approach in how I (we) can expect any future occurence(s) to be dealt with. As moderators you have got to draw the line somewhere and more times that not (at least to me) you keep the line on the right side of the discussion... Cool.

Now let's return to this thread's original purpose/subject, shall we?!?

 

[Jerry Irvine]

Originally posted by Jerry Irvine
Today's updates were deleted by moderators, so this thread is ended by ME.

Jerry

You are missing the many daily updates as (my opinion rules in MY world) a direct result of inappropriate moderator CENSORSHIP.

Just Jerry

 

[jetra2]

Jerry,

FOR ONCE, YOU are in the wrong. The mods and admins have a job to do, and they do it well and to the best of their ability. You, on the other hand, come in and ridicule ALL the hard work the admins do and believe that they have a personal attack on you. One of the things that really gets my goat about you is how ARROGANT you are at times. You are not right. I have learned that, and I have never, ever come in here and slammed people that even provide a forum for us to discuss rocketry with no politics or flame wars.

You also come in here and slam Aerotech. You indirectly slam NAR and TRA. Even though it is indirect, anyone who has read any of your RMR posts knows what you are talking about. The mods "censor" you because they are trying to prevent flame wars and any personal attacks, that are stated in the rules of conduct of TRF. Don't like it? Too bad.

I don't understand why you can't play nice like everyone else and share your USR website updates without a slam on the moderators and admins. Chill out!

I'm not apologizing for this post. It's time it needed to be said.

Jason

 

[Austin]

Jerry,

This is our world here, and a rather nice one at that...your opinion means nothing here. The only FACT about your posts is the FACT that you have time and time again challenged us by pushing and exceeding the rules that govern TRF; our pulled posts section is full of your problem posts and we have been more than generous in allowing you to continue to post despite this fact...that will happen no more.

Most people understand when they make a mistake or exceed the guidelines and they correct it. However, you have apparently made it your hobby to bypass this with your political or insolent posts as of late. You have aleady received a "written warning" once...I suggest you return to the forum and follow our guidelines as there is no second chance here. Also, note that this is not a personal vendetta as I have never met you and do not judge people like that. We see what the general membership does not as most inappropriate posts are ususally pulled before the membership can view them in order to bring the forum into our guidelines and keep the content family oriented. This has been the decision of all the moderators and admins, not just one and we have protected you for the last time.

Your choice...how will you proceed?

Carl

 

[DPatell]

I have a feeling that if he gets kicked out of here, he will just add the administrators to the list of people that have wronged him.

 

[lalligood]

I for one feel that Jerry is often misjudged, misunderstood, & often mistaken for his posts here on TRF souly based on his supposed reputation somewhere else (i.e., r.m.r.). There are plenty of comments other folks have made that are (at the very least questionable) violations of TRF policy, if not simply dangerous to our younger members in which "we", collectively as a community, are supposed to be mentoring, encouraging, & protecting. (See my comments made earlier in this very same thread for an example of a dangerous thread.) To the best of my knowledge, I have not seen those individuals reprimanded to the level that I have seen placed on Jerry Irvine.

Carl,

Maintaining that ANYONE'S opinion on this website does not matter (as I am guessing you were trying to say), is not an insult to just Jerry BUT TO EVERY MEMBER OF THE ROCKETRY FORUM. If you wish to moderate with an iron fist (as much as I don't care for that approach), then at the very least it should be done so equally. Wielding this power selectively weakens the integrity of the information contained within this site, it's members, & perhaps even the hobby itself.

To anyone & everyone else,

I'm not piggybacking, riding his coattails, or anything similar to Jerry as I can't say that I know him or have met him personally...my experiences with Jerry have been limited to being a happy U.S. Rockets customer. While I have only lurked on r.m.r., I do believe that Jerry comes to TRF on his best behavior plus it's my opinion (for what that is worth here!) that r.m.r. is not so much ruined by Jerry (a significant amount of the time at the very least) but by the incessant & nagging trolls whose sole purpose is disrupt the environment & offer no constructive commentary. For all the reading I have done here, Jerry does as good a job (if not better than average) as any other TRF member staying on topic within every thread he has posted to.

I enjoy coming to TRF (often *several* times a day), it's just a shame that it has come to this bunch of nonsense... I'd like to finish up with an observation my wife once made: "People who get defensive are only attempting to use hostility or anger to cover up the fact that they are wrong." Who's being defensive here??? I'll leave that up to all readers of this thread to decide. I pride myself on being a capable adult with the ability to come up with my own thoughts & decisions. Again, this post is 110% of my own composition & opinion...whether valued or not.

 

[Austin]

Lance,

Thank you for a well written post. We appreciate your input, which should indicate that your input, as well as the rest of the membership, really does matter so you did interpret my statement incorrectly. Despite what you may have observed though, you have not been here for every post that was pulled and therefore are basing your position on incomplete information. For this reason you have missed when he has come here time after time, disregarding our guidelines, posting policital statements, badgering other members and showing no regard for the admins and moderators. When asked to keep it on track, unlike other members that are more than happy to comply, he refuses. Jerry has NOT stayed within the guidelines of this forum and this will no longer be tolerated...period. You don't have to like it, but we are only responding to what he has brought on himself...and he has had many chances to step up and post correctly, but refuses.

Dan, if that happens, it will be by his own hand.

Like I said, it's his call on what happens next...

Carl

 

[Jerry Irvine]

Originally posted by lalligood
I'd like to finish up with an observation my wife once made: "People who get defensive are only attempting to use hostility or anger to cover up the fact that they are wrong." Who's being defensive here???

Exactly.

I arrived here by INVITATION. The very first thing that happened was AlexNumb and others attacked me in rmr style.

Moderator's reply?

Keep the posts of attackers online and delete my posts simply correcting the record.

I often post FACT about a law cite or an actual Tripoli practice that is a factual record. Those are deleted.

Rosenfield posted about his NFPA meeting experience. I posted a proposal for a rule change that in my personal, actual experience would increase the rocketry market by several-fold (again). It was deleted. It would be VERY good for Aerotech, who regularly complains the market is "too thin". I agree.

Etc, etc, etc.

I agree with Lance the "moderation" is applied unequally. I am effectively on a "watch list" and my posts are pulled with a "hair trigger".

Even a post I made to the forum feedback section was pulled!!

I have no obligation to pretend I agree with the TRF moderation PRACTICES on those times "when they are objectively wrong or excessive". I cannot stop them from doing the wrong thing. It is their site. I certainly can encourage good behavior on THEIR part, whether or not it is listened to.

Deleting citations of LAW or REGULATION in a thread where that is the very thing being looked for was the very worst example of "moderation" I have seen here. It has happened several times.

That is why I have characterized TRF moderation as CENSORSHIP.

It is one thing to edit to "keep it clean" and frankly when they have done that to my posts I really understood that. But to edit out FACT and call it POLITICS is simply false and a disservice to the rocketry community.

Jerry Irvine
The pioneer of LMR and HPR. Deal with it.

 

[Austin]

Jerry,

Just about every one of your statements is wrong!

As a matter of FACT, we came to your defense on more than one occasion defending you from AlexNumb, who is no longer a member here. But we are not here to argue your incorrect statements...we are here to keep the forum in line with the established guidelines, which you have on a multitude of occasions chosen to ignore.

Like it or not, you have not complied with our multitude of requests; Instead, you have been rather belligerent and have done so well knowing you were breaking the rules. But this is not a debate, just a fact that you have one last chance to redeem yourself; how you deal with that is your business.

Carl

 

[Stymye]

It appears (to me) that TRF has been very good for USR Sales ,feedback, and in expanding the USR customer base. Following the guidelines seems like a fair gesture in return.

 

[Jerry Irvine]

Originally posted by stymye
It appears (to me) that TRF has been very good for USR Sales ,feedback, and in expanding the USR customer base. Following the guidelines seems like a fair gesture in return.

I agree with that statement. FTR very SMALL increase in customer base and GOOD increase in feedback. TRF is a tiny culda-sack on the internet. With value.

The "guidelines" are a sliding scale and based on the many long-winded posts in public to TRF FROM MODERATORS about how they deal with moderating MY posts, I learned several things.

1. They are MAD at me and act accordingly.
2. They are subjecting me to increased scrutiny and a "higher standard" and are proud of that. And furthermore it is their way or the highway.
3. The fact is I contribute actual value more than many, and really do try to post FACT meaningful to the topic at hand, whether or not it is declared POLITICS on the sliding scale. It often is.
4. When I have asked to see what was deleted so I can understand where the line actually is, they have refused. I said please.

Depending on your POV either I am intentionally tickling the line and annoying moderators, or, they have no formal line and they are enforcing it aggressively in my case alone. The truth is probably a combination of both. I DO believe in questioning authority. Yes I do. With FACT and cites. NOT personal attack.

Helpful and Cheerful Jerry

 

[Jerry Irvine]

Originally posted by CTulanko
Jerry,

Just about every one of your statements is wrong!

That is a conclusion with no supporting evidence.

I reread my post in light of this statement by you. I do not see how it could be objectively true.

This may simply be a case of "Calvinball rules".

Jerry

 

[Jerry Irvine]

Since we are discussing this in a civil way, I do want to add something. I admit I have crossed the line at times, typically when posting "defensively" or when the subject is one where I am "pissy", such as motor decerts or illegal permit demands by AHJ's.

So when they finally do kick me off TRF, I admit in advance I have violated the TOS and they will be justified.

But I predict they will do it at a time where I am being compliant but I have simply pissed them off or stepped on their ego.

Jerry

Question authority.
With fact.

Get high.
And fast.

 

[Austin]

Originally posted by Jerry Irvine
I reread my post in light of this statement by you. I do not see how it could be objectively true...
Jerry

You are correct...you post is not true. In addition, we do have the evidence, since we never delete posts. All the mods reviewed each one as it is a team decision. Moreover, you have been notified every time and were more than aware you disregarded our requests, so you have your evidence and you know it.

But this is not a debate...OUR decision is final...and this conversion is finished. You have one last chance to post within the guidelines...your call.

Carl

 

[eugenefl]

Originally posted by Jerry Irvine
I DO believe in questioning authority. Yes I do. With FACT and cites. NOT personal attack.

Helpful and Cheerful Jerry

TRF is a privately owned forum - much like someone's house. We respect your belief to question authority but please don't do it in our house. It is not appropriate nor does it convey any sense of respect to its owners.

 

[bsexton]

Can't we all just get along....

I've enjoyed TRF for the past couple of years and being a moderated forum doesn't bother me one bit -- they have their rules and everyone is expected to follow them. Granted I don't often see the posts that have been pulled and maybe I personally would feel somewhat differently than the moderators about the content. But it is not my forum. I am just a member that enjoys reading and posting when I feel I have something of value to say.

If I want to listen to a bunch of drivel then I go read RMR for a few minutes and then rush back to TRF.

I for one would like to see Jerry continue to participate on TRF within the guidelines. I think he has some valuable and insightful input at times and I welcome that. The bashing and politics can stay on RMR and continue to ruin that discussion group.

Go TRF!!!

 

[firemanup]

The moderators are being unfair... LOL yeh right..

These moderators were told by several people, warned by several people that Jerry was posting here and that it would become an issue.. unless Jerry had truly done a 180 it would be an issue and be detrimental to this forum..

Yet, they still ignored the warnings as they were in fact doing all they could to be fair and based their information and decisions upon what Jerry did here, once again Jerry made his own bed and is now whining about it.

Jerry's been a member of this forum for 10 months. In that time he started out very mildly and has consistently increased his badgering, agitation, and conflicts on this forum with his spewing of BS. If you can not see that YOU are CHOOSING not to see it and lowering your own credibility.

"I agree with that statement. FTR very SMALL increase in customer base and GOOD increase in feedback. TRF is a tiny culda-sack on the internet. With value."

I've watched your site for years and you've never seen so much activity as you have since you started pushing your stuff here and you know it.. You started out civily with good people and it was paying off. Your reviews on EMRR were non existant and now are growing, prmarily from people from this forum.

Those reviews bring more business. It's been evident since you started coming here that you felt this site was an ideal advertising market for your own gain. The majority of your posts have all been in the vendor's forum trying to hype your products.

Sorry Bruce, but don't think it can happen...and if he can't post within those guidelines.. the mods have given too many chances as it is in my opinion.

If he pushes it once more I hope he's gone so the forum can get back to what it was.

Dpatell you're correct...

 

[illini]

Let me try to make one thing clear. While Carl is the point man in this discussion, nobody should interpret that to mean he is acting unilaterally. I, for one, will publicly state that I stand solidly with him.

For those of you who don't understand, let me give you a little perspective. The day I became a mod and saw what goes on "behind the scenes," three things jumped out:

1) The volume of pulled or edited posts. A whole *bunch* I had never seen, and for good reason. The mods here are actively engaged in ensuring that TRF remains the forum that it is. If you don't like that...move on.

2) No moderator/admin acts unilaterally. Each "situation" is actively discussed as it arises to determine what action needs to be taken. Frankly, I was - and continue to be - amazed at the level of restraint exercised by the more senior mods and admins.

3) The vast majority of those responsible for pulled or questionable posts learn from the experience and make a positive choice to comply with forum guidelines in the future. You know who you are .

 

[jflis]

Just a few observations:

Jerry, in a note back there you provided a list wherein you make the comment: "And furthermore it is their way or the highway."

Yep. That is the whole point of a moderated forum.

You further referred to what the moderators do as "censorship".

Yep. That is the whole point of a moderated forum.

It *is* censorship. It is a brand/level of censorship that is accepted by the users of that particular group.

Participants either agree and live with it or go elsewhere.

You have many places where you can post without censorship and you partake of that. This is wonderful and, frankly, is the *real* value of something like rmr. TRF is not such a place.

I would prefer that you stay and contribute as your contributions are valuable, But you must follow the rules set out by TRF. If you can't do that, simple admit it to yourself and move on. Do not challenge it. It serves no purpose.

my 2 cents.
jim

 

[KermieD]

Originally posted by lalligood
I for one feel that Jerry is often misjudged, misunderstood, & often mistaken for his posts here on TRF souly based on his supposed reputation somewhere else (i.e., r.m.r.). There are plenty of comments other folks have made that are (at the very least questionable) violations of TRF policy, if not simply dangerous to our younger members in which "we", collectively as a community, are supposed to be mentoring, encouraging, & protecting. (See my comments made earlier in this very same thread for an example of a dangerous thread.) To the best of my knowledge, I have not seen those individuals reprimanded to the level that I have seen placed on Jerry Irvine.

Carl,

Maintaining that ANYONE'S opinion on this website does not matter (as I am guessing you were trying to say), is not an insult to just Jerry BUT TO EVERY MEMBER OF THE ROCKETRY FORUM. If you wish to moderate with an iron fist (as much as I don't care for that approach), then at the very least it should be done so equally. Wielding this power selectively weakens the integrity of the information contained within this site, it's members, & perhaps even the hobby itself.

To anyone & everyone else,

I'm not piggybacking, riding his coattails, or anything similar to Jerry as I can't say that I know him or have met him personally...my experiences with Jerry have been limited to being a happy U.S. Rockets customer. While I have only lurked on r.m.r., I do believe that Jerry comes to TRF on his best behavior plus it's my opinion (for what that is worth here!) that r.m.r. is not so much ruined by Jerry (a significant amount of the time at the very least) but by the incessant & nagging trolls whose sole purpose is disrupt the environment & offer no constructive commentary. For all the reading I have done here, Jerry does as good a job (if not better than average) as any other TRF member staying on topic within every thread he has posted to.

I enjoy coming to TRF (often *several* times a day), it's just a shame that it has come to this bunch of nonsense... I'd like to finish up with an observation my wife once made: "People who get defensive are only attempting to use hostility or anger to cover up the fact that they are wrong." Who's being defensive here??? I'll leave that up to all readers of this thread to decide. I pride myself on being a capable adult with the ability to come up with my own thoughts & decisions. Again, this post is 110% of my own composition & opinion...whether valued or not.

Lance,

Please note that you don't see all the things that get pulled. Carl's comment is not that nobody else's opinion matters, but that there are set guidelines here and that they are not being followed. The decision on what is and is not acceptable is not up for debate. It doesn't mean we don't value your opinion, but that we sometimes have to make tough decisions. Certainly some of them have been incorrect, but this is not one of those occasions. Remember that a good portion of unacceptable posts get pulled before many people see them. A very good percentage of them also get pulled due to reports from the membership.

You give a very good point in the other thread you brought to our attention. The reason it stayed, however, was that the original statement was disputed effectively and we felt there was value in seeing what not to do, particularly as we do see motors come up in the Yard Sale section. The goal is not to completely ignore potential issues as in that case, but to see that accurate information gets out there. Had the other post not been sufficiently rebutted, it would have been pulled. As it stands, it was left because someone new may come in and be afraid to ask the question, but may find the correct information before going out on their own.

The difference between that and Jerry's posts on potentially political issues is that Jerry will post snippets and cut-outs from legislation to "prove" his assertion that shipping motors are not subject to regulation and/or that they are not subject to the HSA or to LEUP requirements, and has on occasion, even rewritten the quotes he labels as "fact". For starters, this is not the place for that argument, and secondly, his interpretation doesn't matter as it doesn't carry any legal weight.

Also, there are the many veiled and blatant shots taken at Aerotech that regularly get pulled, as well as those against any other certified motor manufacturer (except for Cesaroni...not sure how they avoided invoking his wrath). Then, there are the continual insults and accusations fired at the national organizations (heck, it's even in his signature--which has not been edited or pulled, although it was certainly discussed), which, while they may not be perfect in their decision making, really DO want to see this hobby prosper and flourish and are acting on our behalf, whether we all agree with all of their decisions or not.

Finally, there are all the insults thrown at the admins and mods by Jerry. Most of the situations where posts get pulled come and go without anyone being troubled by them. Most members, when something of theirs gets pulled, write back politely and say either "Oops, sorry, didn't look at it that way" or "I don't see the trouble, but I can live with the decision". We try to take any action as unobtrusively as possible, not to be some behind-the-scenes Big Brother, but to protect the interests of the person whose post we pulled by not dragging their name through the mud. We've done the same for Jerry. He is the only member we have currently who cannot leave it at that, but has to come back and insult us both here and in other venues, consistently misquoting and misrepresenting us each and every time he does so, as he did just a few posts ago. Just wait. You're going to see this post on r.m.r. soon and it will have been snipped and misquoted to completely reinterpret the meaning.

Does Jerry get singled out these days for monitoring? You betcha! Do the rules get enforced for him any differently than anyone else? Not at all. The "iron fist" isn't aimed at him any more than it is anyone else. The enforcement that does occur has absolutely nothing to do with his record elsewhere. It has to do with his posts here. In any situation you're in where someone regularly creates a disruption, you keep a closer eye on them than you do others who do not have a pattern of creating disruptions. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it's just plain common sense.

You're absolutely right. Jerry does contribute considerably to this forum. Does he do so more than most? Perhaps. Are there those who contribute more than he does? I believe that to be true as well. He certainly shares more knowledge than I do, particularly as he knows significantly more than I do on any given topic when it comes to rocketry. I don't think anyone is questioning the positive contributions he makes. It's the ever popular "signal-to-noise ratio" that we take issue with.

If TRF is such a tiny microcosm as to be not worth the hassle of posting and abiding by the guidelines in order to be a contributing member, then he should indeed move on. If, on the other hand, he is seeing the kind of value here that firemanup suggests, then he should consider posting here according to the guidelines and finding an audience for the rest of his opinions elsewhere.

There is no defensiveness here. Just a desire to make TRF a fun place that is family friendly where personal attacks and politics don't come into play. That is clearly stated in the TOS when everyone signs in. It's an inherent part of TRF and it's not going to change.

 

[Stones]

Originally posted by jflis
Just a few observations:
...
I would prefer that you stay and contribute as your contributions are valuable, But you must follow the rules set out by TRF. If you can't do that, simple admit it to yourself and move on. Do not challenge it. It serves no purpose.

my 2 cents.
jim

I think that about sums it up. It's expected of all members here and Jerry, believe it or not, that includes you.

 

[Jerry Irvine]

Originally posted by firemanup
The moderators are being unfair... LOL yeh right..

Arbitrary and moving target.

These moderators were told by several people, warned by several people that Jerry was posting here and that it would become an issue.. unless Jerry had truly done a 180 it would be an issue and be detrimental to this forum..

Yet, they still ignored the warnings

[/B]

I believe they heeded them by placing my posts under higher scrutiny. See below.

as they were in fact doing all they could to be fair and based their information and decisions upon what Jerry did here, once again Jerry made his own bed and is now whining about it.

Jerry's been a member of this forum for 10 months. In that time he started out very mildly

[/B]

I strongly disagree. My arrival sucked rmr attackers like a vacuum to TRF for a time, you included. The moderators did "something". One of my issues is I feel they left attacks on the record and deleted the responses to them on a factual basis.

and has consistently increased his badgering, agitation, and conflicts on this forum with his spewing of BS. If you can not see that YOU are CHOOSING not to see it and lowering your own credibility.

[/B]

Your "conclusion" there has been BS in no way points to any or refutes it on the merits. It is itself a baseless attack on me, someting you specialized in at ROL and rmr. I do not miss your constant attacks on TRF. God bless TRF.

When I point out "execptions" to post deletions, that is not to say they are all wrong. They are not. They are "agressive". That falls within the range of "judgement". YMMV.

"I agree with that statement. FTR very SMALL increase in customer base and GOOD increase in feedback. TRF is a tiny culda-sack on the internet. With value."

I've watched your site for years and you've never seen so much activity as you have since you started pushing your stuff here and you know it.. You started out civily with good people and it was paying off. Your reviews on EMRR were non existant and now are growing, prmarily from people from this forum.

[/B]

I came to TRF as a tool to exploit consumer feedback in an already under way program to update website images since the base text content was nearly done. The U.S. Rockets website was the first consumer rocket manufacturer website BTW.

And it's STILL not done!

Those reviews bring more business. It's been evident since you started coming here that you felt this site was an ideal advertising market for your own gain.

[/B]

I simply disagree. TRF while helpful and positive and interactive (a rocket industry EXCLUSIVE btw) is really, really small in commercial impact. Maybe that will change over time. I for one would like to contribute to that.

The majority of your posts have all been in the vendor's forum trying to hype your products.

Sorry Bruce, but don't think it can happen...and if he can't post within those guidelines.. the mods have given too many chances as it is in my opinion.

If he pushes it once more I hope he's gone so the forum can get back to what it was.

Dpatell you're correct... [/B]

I think there is evidence there is more good than bad by a wide margin. On the parts of all parties. Heck you only need to see a thread where Gary R. and Jerry I. post together to see TRF is SOME kind of miracle!

Jerry

 

[KermieD]

Originally posted by Jerry Irvine
Arbitrary and moving target.

I strongly disagree. My arrival sucked rmr attackers like a vacuum to TRF for a time, you included. The moderators did "something". One of my issues is I feel they left attacks on the record and deleted the responses to them on a factual basis.

Simply incorrect. The first occurrence that you seem to be fond of referring back to began with a very valid comment on the quality of a kit that was received. The mods removed any personal attacks from the post and left the critique for your rebuttal. From all the positive feedback you've received since then, it would have been a simple matter to say that he was referring to a kit shipped 20 years ago and that it is no longer representative of the quality found in USR kits. Instead, your response was to break out terms like "NumbNUTS" and to level accusations that could not be verified by anyone. In actuality, AlexNUMB has been permanently removed from the forum, so it is hardly accurate to say that any enforcement was one-sided against you.

Originally posted by Jerry Irvine
I think there is evidence there is more good than bad by a wide margin. On the parts of all parties. Heck you only need to see a thread where Gary R. and Jerry I. post together to see TRF is SOME kind of miracle!

This is certainly correct, however, there is far too much bad to be acceptable, and the fact that you often feel the need to start a public argument when something bad gets pulled is what has brought us to where we are today.

 

[Stones]

Originally posted by KermieD
...
there is far too much bad to be acceptable, and the fact that you often feel the need to start a public argument when something bad gets pulled is what has brought us to where we are today.

Of course, just an observation but, "argument" is Jerry's element. He thrives inside of it. Whether the content is factual or not, doesn't matter.
Jerry, the moderators are a wall you can't knock down, with your banter. Seems to me, you're being offered ample opportunity to conform to the bylaws of this forum. Push on that "wall" any harder and rest assured, you'll end up flat on your behind.

 

[Austin]

Jerry,

You have already been warned to keep you posts within the guidelines. For the benefit of our viewing audience, we have refuted the fact that many of your quotes in the last several posts are completely and absolutely false!

We no longer need to discuss this...it's your turn to show us that you wish to comply.

This thread is now closed.

Carl