Trying to Start A Rocketry Club, Having Issues (Part 2)

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nickrulercreator

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Part 1 (READ IT)

Today I finally heard back from my vice-principal about trying to start a rocketry club again (context: I've tried before, it was denied. I shot him an email asking why). He told me it is the concern of safety and going through the trouble of needing to find someone to help ensure that the club would be safe and liable. He said, and the principal and school board agreed, that this is too risky and too much trouble.

I'm crushed. I may attempt this September at starting one (my Junior year, 2017-2018), but I don't want to seem annoying after already getting an answer. Opinions? Is there a better way to present how this idea isn't as risky as it seems (because it really isn't. I know what I'm doing, and there's the option of also bringing in an NAR member to assist us).

I've also begun looking at starting my own club in my town. I probably will associate it with the NAR, as there are lots of benefits. The only problem: I don't know if there are enough members near me to keep the club up-and-running.

Thanks again for any help/advice.
 

Incongruent

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Become a NAR member and perform launches under the safety code that applies.

(Pretend the word is shimmering magically.) Insurance...

(whispered.) Two million dollars... (or something like that, I can't remember for sure.)

I believe you can be a NAR member even under 18.
 

Rex R

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to start a NAR section, you need 2 NAR members, one must be an adult(you and your father could join and start a section). see this https://www.nar.org/find-a-local-club/section-guidebook/starting-a-new-section/
or you could join the NAR, then contact the 'local club' and ask them if they would consider adding a new low power field to their set of fields (this way speeds up the getting the site insurance :)), the down side of this is you might get additional folks from the club showing up at your launches...:). yes this how the Madison area folks got a new launch site closer to us. being able to get insurance (in writing) does tend to help open doors. if you were to start a new section, the NAR has been known to provide assistance getting the new section up and running.
Rex
 

DavidMcCann

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Rocketry is safer than bowling. Hit them with numbers. It's not safe? Bulls***.
 

Rex R

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I have noticed that the general public associates our rockets as something that goes up and goes boom or comes down and goes boom. most folks are surprised when I tell them that model rockets are designed/ intended to be reusable, perhaps an education campaign is in order, I would suggest avoiding 'rocket boys/ October sky' as that would tend to confuse the issue. The NAR website would be a good starting point (imo).
Rex
 

nickrulercreator

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Become a NAR member and perform launches under the safety code that applies.

(Pretend the word is shimmering magically.) Insurance...

(whispered.) Two million dollars... (or something like that, I can't remember for sure.)

I believe you can be a NAR member even under 18.
I actually already am an NAR member.
 

nickrulercreator

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to start a NAR section, you need 2 NAR members, one must be an adult(you and your father could join and start a section). see this https://www.nar.org/find-a-local-club/section-guidebook/starting-a-new-section/
or you could join the NAR, then contact the 'local club' and ask them if they would consider adding a new low power field to their set of fields (this way speeds up the getting the site insurance :)), the down side of this is you might get additional folks from the club showing up at your launches...:). yes this how the Madison area folks got a new launch site closer to us. being able to get insurance (in writing) does tend to help open doors. if you were to start a new section, the NAR has been known to provide assistance getting the new section up and running.
Rex
I actually an NAR member, but all the clubs near me are 1 hour away on days with little traffic.
 

Rex R

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for me the local club is roughly 90 miles away...but there are a few club members that live within 20 miles. the same might apply to you, anyone living close to you would probably jump at the chance to not travel an hour (or so) to launch rockets. an email to the club pres ought to elicit whether or not that is the case...from there one could ask if those members would be interested in a field closer to home. etc.
Rex
 

tomsteve

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youre going to surrender because a group of people that don't know crap about rocketry have misinformation about rocketry?
its too much trouble? for who? and all of the sports teams and other clubs at the school aren't too much trouble? theres no risk in them? never a hospital bill from a sports player?

are you going to go through life surrendering every time there is a little resistence- resistence from people who wouldn't even be able to say how it is unsafe and too much trouble?
before I would accept that its too much trouble and riscky I would want to hear their opinion on how that is so. more than likely they don't have a clue.
and be armed with the facts on how they opinions are false.
 

Marc_G

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NAR has statistics about risk per participant-hour. Rocketry is much safer than soccer, football, etc.. show 'em the stats and ask for a reconsideration.

Sent from my LG-D851 using Tapatalk
 

boatgeek

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This is step one, and a loss that you could expect to have. Your role model needs to be John Paul Jones. He was fighting a British ship in the War of 1812. The first part of the battle hadn't gone well for him, with a lot of crew injured or killed and his ship catching fire. The British captain asked if he'd strike his colors [lower his flag and surrender]. He responded "I'll not strike! I have not yet begun to fight!" He went on to capture the British ship, although his own was a total loss.

If you prefer a less military role model, try Gandhi: "First they ignore us, then they laugh at us, then they fight us, then we win."

I'll have more later, but you are by no means out of this. You just need to take it further up the ladder.
 

boatgeek

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OK, here's where stuff gets real. Remember my advice from the last thread. You have to make every administrator who touches this know that it's more effort to tell you no than yes. Because if you give them reasons, you're going to come back with facts. Again and again. If you get started now, you MIGHT be able to get this going next fall. Still with me? OK, let's go to the next steps.

0. First of all, how big is your district? It makes a big difference if it's a small district with 2-5 schools than a big one with dozens. I'm mostly writing for a big district, but your approach is pretty similar for small districts. In general, the larger a district is, the more careful they will be about following the bureaucracy to a T.

1. Gather your data. Find out what local schools near you have TARC teams. Get some press clippings if you can for teams that went to TARC nationals. Call up NAR and ask for their data set showing that rocketry is really safe (TARC has some of this on their website, too). Get a copy of what the NAR/Tripoli insurance covers, and set up a plan for how to make sure you'll have insurance. If you can, find an experienced mentor in the area who is willing to give you a little time to help with the process. Worst case, bring in your dad.

2. Go to your vice principal. Tell him you're very sorry to bother him, you still want to work through these issues, but you know that the decision is out of his hands. You've got data showing that rocketry is far safer than just about any organized sport, and you want to know who made the decision at district HQ so that you can talk to them directly. Also, would the vice principal be willing to help you navigate the bureaucracy on this? Background: most school administrators hate the people at district HQ. HQ is always coming up with harebrained schemes that the school admins have to implement and then blaming school admins when they don't work. I wish I were joking. This is probably less so in a small district than a big one, If you go in specifically asking not to take up much of the VP's time, he's also probably more willing to give you more support that will be valuable later.

3. You have a name at district HQ. Ask them for an appointment, saying that you understand their safety concerns, but you'd like to present them with some more information so that they can think over the decision. Make it clear that you're not asking them to make a decision during the meeting, you just want to give them information so that they can think over the decision. Bring in a copy of the NAR/Tripoli safety code, talk about how these aren't fireworks, pull down some video of TARC teams launching in a safe way, etc. His next statement will be that they'd like to consider it, but it's just too risky. That's when you ask how they deal with football. He'll say something about waivers and insurance. You say that OF COURSE parents would have to sign waivers, and would the NAR insurance help? (pass coverage statement over the table). Tell him that you know this is a lot to digest. Could he take a week or so to look stuff over and get back to you? When you are finishing up the meeting, say that you have the following action items for you (getting information, etc.). Ask what their action items are. Background: Legal/risk wants to say no because there's no upside on this for them. Best case, nothing bad happens and nobody gives him any credit. Worst case, something REALLY bad happens and the district comes for his job. I wish this weren't the case, but it's the way it is, especially in bigger districts. However, these guys are also trained to follow rules. If you can bring up other examples where clubs/sports that do dangerous stuff get approved, then they have a harder time saying no. For them, having inconsistent policies is actually more likely to get them fired than applying one policy consistently.

4. At the same time as 3, go to a school board meeting. It will probably be in the evening, and it will probably bore you to tears. On the other hand, it is your best shot to get in touch with the people that actually make the decisions. If you elect the school board by districts, find out who your board member is. When you're at the meeting, profile the board members. Are there some that just don't seem to care? Are there some that are more attentive? Can you tell who has better or worse relationships with the district staff? From this, pick a board member to approach. Take yours (if you have one) unless they are checked out or seem to have a bad relationship with staff. Otherwise, take one who's interested and not combative. Try to talk with them at a break in the meeting (or before/after). Introduce yourself, say what school you're at, and say that you want to start up a rocketry club, but the district has some reasonable concerns about safety. You've been working with ____ in legal on this, but you heard that the school board weighed in as well. Can you set up a meeting to talk about how this club will operate safely and without adding a lot of liability to the district? They may ask you to just work with the district staff. In that case, say that you'll do that, but ask if you can keep them updated on your progress. If they say yes, send an email over after every meeting with a quick summary of what you talked about and what action items you or the staff have coming out of the meetings. Ask the staff person if they want to be cc'd on the email. Background: The school board typically works for voters, the superintendent works for the school board, and the district staff work for the superintendent. School board members want good publicity and not to piss off parents (aka voters). They're also the people who can tell the superintendent "hey, let's figure out a way around this." Their time in breaks at board meetings are pretty precious, so don't take up a lot. Asking for a meeting shows that you're serious and respectful of their time.

On both 3 and 4, if you get a meeting you'll probably be told no the first time. Ask what their reasons are and if you can bring them more information that addresses those reasons. If they say that they don't have the authority to allow this to happen, ask if you can schedule a meeting with someone who does have that authority. Make it clear that you'd really like to get the club started in the fall so you have a good chance to compete at TARC (if that's a goal). Wash, rinse, and repeat.

Finally, be courteous, respectful, and friendly, even when you get told no. If they say you can't have a meeting, ask if there is a time when they are available. If they say you have to talk with someone else first, go talk with that person and make sure you say that ___ sent you over to talk with them. Most school district employees or school board members are used to getting yelled at by parents who don't care what the policies are, just that they want the school to break the rules for their kids. I wish I was joking, but I'm not. The fact that you are a student advocating for yourself and that you are friendly and respectful of the process will get you a long way toward success. My experience is that you can nearly always get meetings if you are persistent and friendly. If you yell at someone, then they have a perfect excuse to never talk to you again. Finally, dress appropriately. When you go to a meeting, wear a button-down shirt and either khakis or slacks. Nice jeans will work if you have to, but it helps to be dressed like the people you're talking to. Sending a thank you note or email for meetings doesn't hurt, either.

This got a lot longer than I expected. It might be a summer project. But I really do think that it will work. Plus, you have a good guide for when you have something else you want from a big faceless bureaucracy.
 

tomsteve

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excellent advise/suggestions from boatgeek.
something to add-
there may be concerns or questions or something you hear that you may not have an answer for or may want to investigate more.
have a notepad with you to jot down a little something to help ya remember later on.

might wanna watch the movie "October skies." cant imagine where he would have ended up if he wasn't persistant and also did some research when he was blamed for a fire he didn't start.
we wouldn't have the awesome movie for one.
 

doubletrouble3769

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All good advice. What about the science and technology teachers. I am a child of the 70's and it seemed like most schools back then had a rocket club, and usually the science teacher coached it. You have to sell the educational value of it. The science, the technology, the math, the english (written documentation). What knowledge a student can gain and guide them to a career field. It's not just about launching rockets. Of course we all love that. So much happens before that.
 

cbrarick

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Might also want to download some of the STEM curricula. It shows how rocket can be utilized to teach those 4 items, which are common core to the max...
 

nickrulercreator

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youre going to surrender because a group of people that don't know crap about rocketry have misinformation about rocketry?
its too much trouble? for who? and all of the sports teams and other clubs at the school aren't too much trouble? theres no risk in them? never a hospital bill from a sports player?

are you going to go through life surrendering every time there is a little resistence- resistence from people who wouldn't even be able to say how it is unsafe and too much trouble?
before I would accept that its too much trouble and riscky I would want to hear their opinion on how that is so. more than likely they don't have a clue.
and be armed with the facts on how they opinions are false.
haha, I'm not surrendering, there's just not much I can do. I don't want to be rude, and I surely don't want to anger my principal and annoy him.
 

nickrulercreator

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OK, here's where stuff gets real. Remember my advice from the last thread. You have to make every administrator who touches this know that it's more effort to tell you no than yes. Because if you give them reasons, you're going to come back with facts. Again and again. If you get started now, you MIGHT be able to get this going next fall. Still with me? OK, let's go to the next steps.

0. First of all, how big is your district? It makes a big difference if it's a small district with 2-5 schools than a big one with dozens. I'm mostly writing for a big district, but your approach is pretty similar for small districts. In general, the larger a district is, the more careful they will be about following the bureaucracy to a T.

1. Gather your data. Find out what local schools near you have TARC teams. Get some press clippings if you can for teams that went to TARC nationals. Call up NAR and ask for their data set showing that rocketry is really safe (TARC has some of this on their website, too). Get a copy of what the NAR/Tripoli insurance covers, and set up a plan for how to make sure you'll have insurance. If you can, find an experienced mentor in the area who is willing to give you a little time to help with the process. Worst case, bring in your dad.

2. Go to your vice principal. Tell him you're very sorry to bother him, you still want to work through these issues, but you know that the decision is out of his hands. You've got data showing that rocketry is far safer than just about any organized sport, and you want to know who made the decision at district HQ so that you can talk to them directly. Also, would the vice principal be willing to help you navigate the bureaucracy on this? Background: most school administrators hate the people at district HQ. HQ is always coming up with harebrained schemes that the school admins have to implement and then blaming school admins when they don't work. I wish I were joking. This is probably less so in a small district than a big one, If you go in specifically asking not to take up much of the VP's time, he's also probably more willing to give you more support that will be valuable later.

3. You have a name at district HQ. Ask them for an appointment, saying that you understand their safety concerns, but you'd like to present them with some more information so that they can think over the decision. Make it clear that you're not asking them to make a decision during the meeting, you just want to give them information so that they can think over the decision. Bring in a copy of the NAR/Tripoli safety code, talk about how these aren't fireworks, pull down some video of TARC teams launching in a safe way, etc. His next statement will be that they'd like to consider it, but it's just too risky. That's when you ask how they deal with football. He'll say something about waivers and insurance. You say that OF COURSE parents would have to sign waivers, and would the NAR insurance help? (pass coverage statement over the table). Tell him that you know this is a lot to digest. Could he take a week or so to look stuff over and get back to you? When you are finishing up the meeting, say that you have the following action items for you (getting information, etc.). Ask what their action items are. Background: Legal/risk wants to say no because there's no upside on this for them. Best case, nothing bad happens and nobody gives him any credit. Worst case, something REALLY bad happens and the district comes for his job. I wish this weren't the case, but it's the way it is, especially in bigger districts. However, these guys are also trained to follow rules. If you can bring up other examples where clubs/sports that do dangerous stuff get approved, then they have a harder time saying no. For them, having inconsistent policies is actually more likely to get them fired than applying one policy consistently.

4. At the same time as 3, go to a school board meeting. It will probably be in the evening, and it will probably bore you to tears. On the other hand, it is your best shot to get in touch with the people that actually make the decisions. If you elect the school board by districts, find out who your board member is. When you're at the meeting, profile the board members. Are there some that just don't seem to care? Are there some that are more attentive? Can you tell who has better or worse relationships with the district staff? From this, pick a board member to approach. Take yours (if you have one) unless they are checked out or seem to have a bad relationship with staff. Otherwise, take one who's interested and not combative. Try to talk with them at a break in the meeting (or before/after). Introduce yourself, say what school you're at, and say that you want to start up a rocketry club, but the district has some reasonable concerns about safety. You've been working with ____ in legal on this, but you heard that the school board weighed in as well. Can you set up a meeting to talk about how this club will operate safely and without adding a lot of liability to the district? They may ask you to just work with the district staff. In that case, say that you'll do that, but ask if you can keep them updated on your progress. If they say yes, send an email over after every meeting with a quick summary of what you talked about and what action items you or the staff have coming out of the meetings. Ask the staff person if they want to be cc'd on the email. Background: The school board typically works for voters, the superintendent works for the school board, and the district staff work for the superintendent. School board members want good publicity and not to piss off parents (aka voters). They're also the people who can tell the superintendent "hey, let's figure out a way around this." Their time in breaks at board meetings are pretty precious, so don't take up a lot. Asking for a meeting shows that you're serious and respectful of their time.

On both 3 and 4, if you get a meeting you'll probably be told no the first time. Ask what their reasons are and if you can bring them more information that addresses those reasons. If they say that they don't have the authority to allow this to happen, ask if you can schedule a meeting with someone who does have that authority. Make it clear that you'd really like to get the club started in the fall so you have a good chance to compete at TARC (if that's a goal). Wash, rinse, and repeat.

Finally, be courteous, respectful, and friendly, even when you get told no. If they say you can't have a meeting, ask if there is a time when they are available. If they say you have to talk with someone else first, go talk with that person and make sure you say that ___ sent you over to talk with them. Most school district employees or school board members are used to getting yelled at by parents who don't care what the policies are, just that they want the school to break the rules for their kids. I wish I was joking, but I'm not. The fact that you are a student advocating for yourself and that you are friendly and respectful of the process will get you a long way toward success. My experience is that you can nearly always get meetings if you are persistent and friendly. If you yell at someone, then they have a perfect excuse to never talk to you again. Finally, dress appropriately. When you go to a meeting, wear a button-down shirt and either khakis or slacks. Nice jeans will work if you have to, but it helps to be dressed like the people you're talking to. Sending a thank you note or email for meetings doesn't hurt, either.

This got a lot longer than I expected. It might be a summer project. But I really do think that it will work. Plus, you have a good guide for when you have something else you want from a big faceless bureaucracy.
woah lot's of stuff. Ok, here's my best answer to all of what you said.

-1: I surely am with you. This is one of my top priorities at the moment, and I cannot just drop it.

0: My district is big (wcasd.net). There's 12 elementary schools, 3 middle schools, and 3 high schools.

1: This is super helpful. Will send an email to NAR tonight asking for assistance and resources in convincing my principal.

2: I've met with my vice-principal about 4 times over the past month-and-a-half, and I've emailed him several times additionally. He may have some say in the motion of pushing for the club, but it really lies in the principal and school board.

3: Great Advice

4: Also excellent advice

TARC is a goal. I just don't want to seem rude and annoying in all of this.

Thanks so much
 

nickrulercreator

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All good advice. What about the science and technology teachers. I am a child of the 70's and it seemed like most schools back then had a rocket club, and usually the science teacher coached it. You have to sell the educational value of it. The science, the technology, the math, the english (written documentation). What knowledge a student can gain and guide them to a career field. It's not just about launching rockets. Of course we all love that. So much happens before that.
Most of my science teachers actually already do clubs, or are extremely annoying (not good).
 

Incongruent

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The link is broken, it might be wcisd.net though since isd.
 

Peartree

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Most of my science teachers actually already do clubs, or are extremely annoying (not good).
It doesn't have to be a science teacher.

You know your teachers and your friends know a few more. Find an ally. In my junior high we started a science fiction club. Our sponsor wasn't a science teacher but an English teacher. What you need is a teacher who is a fan of rocketry and you have a good chance of finding one almost anywhere. We often recommend that you look at science teachers first because, surprise, science geeks often teach science. But they also land in mathematics, chemistry, physics, English, history, and everywhere else. Finding an ally on staff can be a huge help in navigating the "politics" of your particular school district.

Look for teachers that are fans of science fiction, fantasy, rocketry, and "geeky" subjects that might give you a clue. The posters they put up in their rooms, the movies they watch, and the jokes that they tell can often be clues. Since most teachers are prohibited from being "friends" with students on social media the next suggestion may be a bit more difficult, but if any of your teachers "follow" Spaceflight Now, or NASA, or ISS, or any of those kind of things on Twitter or Facebook, that's a clue that you might find an ally in them.

Good luck.
 

boatgeek

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woah lot's of stuff. Ok, here's my best answer to all of what you said.

-1: I surely am with you. This is one of my top priorities at the moment, and I cannot just drop it.

0: My district is big (wcasd.net). There's 12 elementary schools, 3 middle schools, and 3 high schools.

1: This is super helpful. Will send an email to NAR tonight asking for assistance and resources in convincing my principal.

2: I've met with my vice-principal about 4 times over the past month-and-a-half, and I've emailed him several times additionally. He may have some say in the motion of pushing for the club, but it really lies in the principal and school board.

3: Great Advice

4: Also excellent advice

TARC is a goal. I just don't want to seem rude and annoying in all of this.

Thanks so much
The first thing you need to do is get over not wanting to be annoying. You definitely don't want to be rude, and don't contact people after they say they can't do any more (although definitely ask them who can). You will be successful by being persistent well past the point of being annoying so that they just want you to have your club and stop bothering them.

It sounds like you've exhausted your options with the vice principal, so move on to the principal and district HQ.

Keep us posted!
 

Peartree

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The first thing you need to do is get over not wanting to be annoying. You definitely don't want to be rude, and don't contact people after they say they can't do any more (although definitely ask them who can). You will be successful by being persistent well past the point of being annoying so that they just want you to have your club and stop bothering them.
This is true even as a professional.

I once had a colleague who was promised data that he needed to complete a task. He was promised it by a particular date and didn't get it. He called, and was promised it in another week.

Still didn't get it.

At the end of the second week, he called the guy that had been putting him off and he promised it the following Monday.

On Monday, he didn't get it.

And so he called again, and promised the guy, respectfully, that he would be calling every morning at 9:00 am until the guy sent the data that we needed.

Polite, persistent, and really annoying.

We got our data a day or two later.
 

CaptainVideo

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"too risky and too much trouble."
Funny how that same logic never applies to football, which I would bet on average has a much higher injury rate than model rocketry clubs.
 

nickrulercreator

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"too risky and too much trouble."
Funny how that same logic never applies to football, which I would bet on average has a much higher injury rate than model rocketry clubs.
it does, FAR higher. You never see in the news about model rocket accidents, but nearly every week I read something about kits breaking arms and legs, getting concussions, etc from sports (i play tennis myself which isn't as dangerous, but I can say that people still get hurt).

But, if something does go wrong, then something MAJOR will result (destruction of property, forest fire, people can die, etc). This I understand, but I've built many rockets too, and I have only had one thing go wrong as a result of a defect motor (there was a gap inside of the motor that resulted in a buildup of gasses).
 

Peartree

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"too risky and too much trouble."
Funny how that same logic never applies to football, which I would bet on average has a much higher injury rate than model rocketry clubs.
On the other hand, rocketry isn't likely to bring in any money either. We have one (large and football crazy) school that would virtually guarantee that a home game against them would bring in $40,000 in ticket sales in a single game, let alone what all those people spent at concessions.

I'm not a big football fan either, but money talks, ya' know?

Soccer, however, has an average game attendance that *might* break into the double digits. Even the parents don't come.
 

CaptainVideo

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I suspect the school is going to be intransigent. I'm not saying don't be persistent, but the most viable option is probably to form a club outside of the school. If that winds up being the case it might be an idea to ask if you could put an ad for the club in the school paper and/or post fliers for it on school property. Make it clear that the ad would state that the club is an external activity not associated with the school.
If the school says no to that you could still put an ad for the club in the town's paper, craigslist(free!), and post fliers for it all over town. It will be more work without being affiliated with the school, but worth the effort. Sometimes DIY is the only way to go.
 

nickrulercreator

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I suspect the school is going to be intransigent. I'm not saying don't be persistent, but the most viable option is probably to form a club outside of the school. If that winds up being the case it might be an idea to ask if you could put an ad for the club in the school paper and/or post fliers for it on school property. Make it clear that the ad would state that the club is an external activity not associated with the school.
If the school says no to that you could still put an ad for the club in the town's paper, craigslist(free!), and post fliers for it all over town. It will be more work without being affiliated with the school, but worth the effort. Sometimes DIY is the only way to go.
Good idea, and I definitely am also looking into doing this, but the only problem I have with that is random strangers, probably 20+ joining. I really am looking into teens planning to build one or two rockets at a time. Nearly all NAR sections are just formed so people have a place to launch. I want to make a club where we can design and build our own rockets as a team, and participate in TARC.
 

Incongruent

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For TARC there has to be a school or other educational group sponsor I believe.
 

mad4hws

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.... I want to make a club where we can design and build our own rockets as a team, and participate in TARC.
Just now catching up on this thread. Have you tried to contact one of the existing clubs around you? Even though they may fly and meet up a ways away to do the flying, you might get lucky and there might be a senior member who is in your town or in a town closeby and willing to help out with the designing and building piece. A way around the inferred “danger” might be to exclude the rocket motor part all together. You could fly at a club launch under club supervision and not involve the school at all. The most labor intensive part is the designing and building part.

If you go to the TARC website, you can access a list of participating schools/organizations. There’s even a map on the homepage, so you can find participants that are close to you. Most of these are schools that have somehow overcome the liability issue – each one of which I’m sure could talk to your school administrators and explain how they achieved seemingly unsurmountable obstacle. It looks like you’re in Westchester PA – there are teams closeby in Downington that you could reach out to maybe? To participate in TARC, you don’t need to be part of a school team, although most are. A boys/girls club, 4H club, boy/girl scouts, church youth group, Civil Air Patrol, etc. would work too. I’m a mentor for a homeschool group, but I’m guessing that’s not an option for you might just have to get creative if the school thing is out.

good luck.
 

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