TRS Procedures re: Tripoli rules on remote arming

Discussion in 'Rocketry Electronics and Software' started by Dad Man Walking, Feb 18, 2020.

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  1. Feb 18, 2020 #1

    Dad Man Walking

    Dad Man Walking

    Dad Man Walking

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    I'm confused about the how Tripoli's revised rules for remotely armed altimeters impact procedures for the TRS. On the first page of that thread (here), Skip Shannon said specifically that the TRS wasn't on the list of approved remote arming devices, and Cris "Mr. Eggtimer" Erving clarified why that was the case. But I don't understand what the implications are for complying with the rule using the TRS.

    If the TRS is built per Cris' instructions (two batteries, and switches in-line with the main board and deployment power pads), do we still follow the procedures outlined in the manual:
    - start with the deployment power turned off (screw switch in my case)
    - turn on the TRS main board (another screw switch) and base station, confirm sync and GPS lock
    - button up the rocket -- if you haven't already connected the charges, you could do this now. I do this with the altimeter turned off before final packing
    - Check-in/RSO the rocket with the altimeter/tracker on and the deployment power off
    - Put the rocket on the rail, insert the igniter, turn on the deployment power, connect the igniter to the launch system, step away, and initiate the launch sequence after humans are clear of the pads.

    Is anything different now?

    Sidebar -- please no sidebars here with opinions on Tripoli's revised ruling. Plenty of space for that on the other thread. I'm just interested in being fully compliant using the TRS.
     
  2. Feb 18, 2020 #2

    Speaknoevil

    Speaknoevil

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    Call it a Freudian slip, but I actually read your thread title as "TPS" procedure...
    tpsreport.jpg
     
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  3. Feb 18, 2020 #3

    Steve Shannon

    Steve Shannon

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    I always wanted a nickname. Skip is as good as any. [emoji3]

    I apologize for including the distracting information about the “approved wireless remote switches” in the same announcement as our revised requirement. Because one led to the other in our board discussion, it seemed logical at the time.

    The rule is simple, even if implementation isn’t easy. All electronic devices which control deployment charges or ignition devices must be powered down when presented at the RSO table and while being handled where other, uninvolved people, like spectators, could be injured. So a device like the TRS must have all power removed from it. If the switch terminals on the TRS do that, then you’re good to go, but if the switch terminals allow the processor that controls the charges to continue running, then you’ll need another separate disconnection.

    Don’t even think about the “approved list of wireless remote switches.”
     
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  4. Feb 18, 2020 #4

    manixFan

    manixFan

    manixFan

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    Hmmm, the devil is in the details. When I use a magnet to turn a mag switch to the 'off position', there is no power going to the 'electronic devices which control deployment charges'. The altimeter is unpowered, which would seem to meet the rule listed above that there isn't any power going to the altimeter, which controls the charges.

    But, as stated elsewhere, the rule has been much more narrowly defined as needing an 'air gap' between power and the electronic devices, which neither a magnetic or wifi switch provides.

    I please ask that a formal, singular definition of the new rule be presented to avoid any more confusion/consternation over this issue.


    Tony
     
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  5. Feb 18, 2020 #5

    Steve Shannon

    Steve Shannon

    Steve Shannon

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    He specifically asked that we not continue the discussion here. I’ll honor his request.
     
  6. Feb 18, 2020 #6

    Dad Man Walking

    Dad Man Walking

    Dad Man Walking

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    I appreciate the clarification. One switch controls power to the circuit board that is both a dual-depoly altimeter and the tracker. So it must be turned off for check-in and while proceeding to the pads. Once at the pad the main board and the power to the charges can be turned on after the rocket is on the rail.

    Sorry about my name confusion...but just remember, the person doesn't pick the nickname--the nickname picks the person. Maybe it will stick :)
     
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  7. Feb 18, 2020 #7

    Steve Shannon

    Steve Shannon

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    We already have one director nicknamed Skippy, so maybe it would be confusing. But if there’s a beer on the other end of the invitation I’ll answer to almost anything.
     
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  8. Feb 18, 2020 #8

    Charles_McG

    Charles_McG

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    I -think- the TRS in dual battery mode, as you've described, is fine. Deployment power is on a separate, switched, battery from CPU/GPS.

    The detail devil is that I don't recall how the TRS handles continuity checking. The later designed Proton reports incorrectly with deployment power off. I haven't re-soldered a Quantum to see what it does. I had a TRS, but don't any longer.

    Cris would know.
    since you want the GPS module up and running to stay locked, this is a case where charge-side disconnects might be in order. But I'd check with Cris.
     
  9. Feb 18, 2020 #9

    Steve Shannon

    Steve Shannon

    Steve Shannon

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    Cris has specifically requested a ruling regarding the continuity current. We haven’t answered, preferring to include it in the group conversation.
     
  10. Feb 19, 2020 #10

    cerving

    cerving

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    The TRS uses a battery-common architecture, similar to most other altimeters, and will auto-arm if you do not pair it with the LCD receiver during startup. I recommend that if you plan on pairing it that you disconnect the deployment power until you're vertical on the rail per the new rule. If you are going to allow it to auto-arm, you need a power switch on the entire TRS. That will delay your GPS feed, of course, although the TRS tends to get one pretty quickly due to the relatively large size of the ground plane on the PC board.
     
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