Tripoli vs NAR?

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Ez2cDave

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To this day, I do not know nor care who flew the G. However, I would like to know who the manufacturer of that G was. Was it a legitimate manufacturer that produced a motor that could have been certified years later?
While I do not know, specifically, the motor-maker responsible, given the time-frame and from personal experience of interacting with a certain individual, their initials might be "M.M."

Dave F.
 
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prfesser

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Maybe NAR and TRA should do what was proposed by Hawkeye on MASH. Hold a cocktail party after the launch. Last one still standing wins. :)

Best -- Terry
...who is still standing, but probably not for long. Chivas Regal is too smooth by half...
 

Richard Dierking

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I'm wondering how popular a mutual NAR-TRA event would be and what form it would take. Although it's interesting hearing what you all think, how could this be suggested outside of RF? How useful would a poll on this even be if it's just RF?
I think that dual membership would be one of the things encouraged in such an event.
NAR seems to have a more technical event with presentations/speakers. Does TRA have anything like that? How popular is LDRS with hosting clubs and members (and of course be candid)? How did the format of this event come about, and is it just happening that way because it aways has? Should even the title of the event be changed? Just saying, we are serious about HP rocketry and safety, but here's what we call our national event?

Also, (and sorry for another potential side track) is there an amateur rocketry list anywhere that has names and addresses? I realize that privacy and sharing of personal info is an important consideration, but if people wish to be on some kind of registry, what would be the problem? Probably listing email or phone numbers would not work because of spamming, but if it was just postal addresses.
I'm in an area where I don't think there are many people active in rocketry, but I really don't know. I even tried creating a MeetUp group for rocketry in my area and had poor results. I don't think things like MeetUp are useful in connecting with the right people.
 

dr wogz

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It's time for an "Olive Branch" between NAR & TRIPOLI, publicly, for all Members to see . . .

Imagery :

Steve Shannon approaches from one direction, while John Hochheimer approaches from the opposite direction, like two gunslingers in a Western movie.

They come face to face and, after, a brief pause and looking each other up & down, they simultaneously extend their right hands and shake hands.

The handshake turns into an brief embrace, with back-slapping.

Both of them then turn towards the Range Head and stroll back, together !


Dave F.
Lemme guess:
Kari Byron would be the witness (or the damsel bystander) and Nadine would be documenting it. In either case, the handshake & hug would then be held up for a minute, then repeated 3 or 4 times to properly capture the moment..

:D poking some fun!
 

John Kemker

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I'm wondering how popular a mutual NAR-TRA event would be and what form it would take. Although it's interesting hearing what you all think, how could this be suggested outside of RF? How useful would a poll on this even be if it's just RF?
I think that dual membership would be one of the things encouraged in such an event.
NAR seems to have a more technical event with presentations/speakers. Does TRA have anything like that? How popular is LDRS with hosting clubs and members (and of course be candid)? How did the format of this event come about, and is it just happening that way because it aways has? Should even the title of the event be changed? Just saying, we are serious about HP rocketry and safety, but here's what we call our national event?

Also, (and sorry for another potential side track) is there an amateur rocketry list anywhere that has names and addresses? I realize that privacy and sharing of personal info is an important consideration, but if people wish to be on some kind of registry, what would be the problem? Probably listing email or phone numbers would not work because of spamming, but if it was just postal addresses.
I'm in an area where I don't think there are many people active in rocketry, but I really don't know. I even tried creating a MeetUp group for rocketry in my area and had poor results. I don't think things like MeetUp are useful in connecting with the right people.
Changing the meaning of LDRS from "Large & Dangerous Rocket Ships" to "Let's Do Rockets Safely" was discussed in the past. First, it was seen as revisionist history. Secondly, it was seen as political correctness. Third, the original reminds people that this is an inherently dangerous activity, when not done with care and attention to detail. Even low power rockets can be dangerous, when we don't practice safety.

Don't get hung up on labels. TRA isn't likely to change the name from LDRS. Instead, try looking at it from a different perspective.
 

Richard Dierking

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And yet every time I hear the LDRS event brought up to a new person I hear a following disclaimer with a recollection of history. So, I respect your take on this, but I don't agree. I don't think it's a reminder that rockets are dangerous. Is it more so people recognize the event and think it sounds interesting or more so old farts can hang on to the past?
Please keep in mind I'm not trying to take this too seriously, but it doesn't mean I can't be serious. This is a balancing act; we are chatting. And, I hope having a good time too.

I believe that LDRS has problems that go beyond just the title. For example, I bet many of the TRA Board members are a bit relieved that they don't have to find a location for LDRS in 2021. ;-).

And, you can blame Steve, because he's the one that encouraged me to not just accept common wisdom and to constantly re-evaluate things! Oh, I wonder what he thinks now, LOL.
So, let me ask this: Will the annual event for TRA always be the same? Will TRA and NAR always keep each other at arm's length (well, I guess now that's 6')?
Maybe it's time for a new organization? Yes, a third party!

I'm thinking about the Dem/Rep post on this thread again and starting to laugh. Wow, that was a hoot.
 

rharshberger

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And yet every time I hear the LDRS event brought up to a new person I hear a following disclaimer with a recollection of history. So, I respect your take on this, but I don't agree. I don't think it's a reminder that rockets are dangerous. Is it more so people recognize the event and think it sounds interesting or more so old farts can hang on to the past?
Please keep in mind I'm not trying to take this too seriously, but it doesn't mean I can't be serious. This is a balancing act; we are chatting. And, I hope having a good time too.

I believe that LDRS has problems that go beyond just the title. For example, I bet many of the TRA Board members are a bit relieved that they don't have to find a location for LDRS in 2021. ;-).

And, you can blame Steve, because he's the one that encouraged me to not just accept common wisdom and to constantly re-evaluate things! Oh, I wonder what he thinks now, LOL.
So, let me ask this: Will the annual event for TRA always be the same? Will TRA and NAR always keep each other at arm's length (well, I guess now that's 6')?
Maybe it's time for a new organization? Yes, a third party!

I'm thinking about the Dem/Rep post on this thread again and starting to laugh. Wow, that was a hoot.
Your welcome....I guess I am a bipartisan rocketeer as I belong to both parties....:)
 

Nytrunner

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So, let me ask this: Will the annual event for TRA always be the same? Will TRA and NAR always keep each other at arm's length (well, I guess now that's 6')?
For my part, I don't think the orgs entirely distance from each other. There are a lot of split clubs that are both prefectures and sections. The national org leadership on both sides seems to get along (at least in person at the events I've attended lol)

And there are of course those in each org that don't give two turds whether the other org lives or dies because their needs are met in their org of choice.

Why are the events separate? Because they always have been. Why hasn't their been a joint event? Because no one has made enough stir to get it going (marketing and kicking off a new event is a herculean task)

Could it be fun? Absolutely!
 

Richard Dierking

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So, why the sad faces? Anyone that disagrees with me, take heart, probably nothing is going to change! I bet there will be no mutual national event as well. Go to bed tonight reassured that everything will remain the same. People may read what I say, most will say "what ever" and life will go on. Maybe some may consider what we have discussed on this thread, agree or disagree, and not be worse, but better.

But, when people ask why the mainstream media doesn't seem to take TRA seriously or why there are not more females involved with TRA and HP rocketry, your main events are called Large and Dangerous Rocket Ships and BALLS for goodness sake. (I get another kick out of hearing the explanation when someone new asks, "but what does BALLS stand for?")
And, if I'm accused of trying to be politically correct, challenging the status quo is pretty darn politically incorrect. ;-) BTW, what happens when my reaction score goes below 0? Can there be negative numbers?
Anyway, people might say that the event names have no affect upon the mentality (the attitudes of the participants) at these events. Well, OK. Sure, maybe that what you think, or maybe you have not ever really considered it. Maybe you don't care, that's OK too.

Again, dancing around the original question, NAR vs. Tripoli, NAR calls their annual event National Sport Launch and TRA calls it Large and Dangerous Rocket Ships.
Hey, we should come up with another name for NSL and propose it!
 

John Kemker

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Nah, wasn't trying to put a sad face, but accidently put a thumbs-up. Couldn't delete it, so did the next best thing to undo what I did. If a mod can remove my reaction, that'd be even better.

Rich, I disagree with your assessment. I also disagree with your characterization of those who don't see a need to change the name of LDRS. (By the way, very few people that I know refer to it as "Large and Dangerous Rocket Ships." Instead, they just use the initials: LDRS, thus taking away much of the rationale of "needing" to change the name.) You use the phrase "old fart" as a perjorative. Some of us wear it as a badge of honor, because we've experienced quite a bit and learned in the process. Maybe one day, you'll be an old fart, too!
 

Richard Dierking

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I'm 64 and retired. Glad I didn't make anyone angry; One old fart to another.
Agree with you about LDRS; yes, I bet many people just think of it as LDRS. Probably same with BALLS. And, I've had a good time at both LDRS and BALLS.

But, if there's a new event, let's have the NAR folks name it. ;-)

I believe that LDRS is specifically mentioned in the by-laws for TRA as well. The name will remain until it isn't.

For comparison (NAR vs. Tripoli), I suggest comparing the latest Tripoli report, volume 31, No 2 with NAR's Sport Rocketry May/June issue. I would be curious what people think.
 

Steve Shannon

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Well, to be honest, you sort of do irk me, Richard. People shouldn’t join Tripoli hoping to make it more like NAR, or to make the names of it events more P.C. Tripoli’s history is of stretching boundaries and providing an amateur rocketry safety framework for adults while having a more relaxed sense of fun and humor. That doesn’t mean we should be gender or racially biased; we shouldn’t, but the thought that we must fit into some polite image isn’t who we are.
Neither should anyone hope to change the NAR to be more like Tripoli. NAR has a great history of model rocketry, competition, and more than a score of years now very well managed HPR activities.
Trying to hold us both to the same set of standards is silly. We are wonderfully different and that adds a little spice. But I could see having an occasional celebratory joint events when there’s something to celebrate that we both recognize.
 

o1d_dude

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NAR is the most middle of the road organization I have ever held a membership in.

I have no problem with Large Dangerous Rocket Ships or Big Ass Load Lifting Suckers. The names are good by me.

Maybe I should join Tripoli. After all, I am a world champion log tosser whilst wearing a skirt so I‘ll fit right in.

45238053-1397-4AEE-AE49-5B0D4B1D0BD0.jpeg
 

Steve Shannon

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NAR is the most middle of the road organization I have ever held a membership in.

I have no problem with Large Dangerous Rocket Ships or Big Ass Load Lifting Suckers. The names are good by me.

Maybe I should join Tripoli. After all, I am a world champion log tosser whilst wearing a skirt so I‘ll fit right in.

View attachment 417030
You would be welcomed with open arms.
 

John Kemker

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NAR is the most middle of the road organization I have ever held a membership in.

I have no problem with Large Dangerous Rocket Ships or Big Ass Load Lifting Suckers. The names are good by me.

Maybe I should join Tripoli. After all, I am a world champion log tosser whilst wearing a skirt so I‘ll fit right in.

View attachment 417030
So, you're a Big Ass Load Lifting Scot?
 

rocketaholic

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Nah, wasn't trying to put a sad face, but accidently put a thumbs-up. Couldn't delete it, so did the next best thing to undo what I did. If a mod can remove my reaction, that'd be even better.

Rich, I disagree with your assessment. I also disagree with your characterization of those who don't see a need to change the name of LDRS. (By the way, very few people that I know refer to it as "Large and Dangerous Rocket Ships." Instead, they just use the initials: LDRS, thus taking away much of the rationale of "needing" to change the name.) You use the phrase "old fart" as a perjorative. Some of us wear it as a badge of honor, because we've experienced quite a bit and learned in the process. Maybe one day, you'll be an old fart, too!
There was someone at an LDRS event years ago that stated LDRS could also mean: Lets Do Rockets Safely instead of the other meaning.
 

beeblebrox

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NAR is the most middle of the road organization I have ever held a membership in.

I have no problem with Large Dangerous Rocket Ships or Big Ass Load Lifting Suckers. The names are good by me.

Maybe I should join Tripoli. After all, I am a world champion log tosser whilst wearing a skirt so I‘ll fit right in.

View attachment 417030
Hmmmm...new event, P-Motor Caber toss...lol
 

o1d_dude

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It depends if you call his Kilt a "skirt" or not . . . LOL !

Dave F.m
The phrase we Highland throwers use is ‘Manly men doing manly things...whilst wearing skirts.”

The night before the games was usually spent drinking beer in cowboy bars where we recruited a lot of big boys to the throwing fraternity. A Stetson hat is acceptable for wear on the athletic field.

I am the one on the left. The guy standing next to me is 6’7” 320lbs. He came in second. The guy on the right took first place. Funny things happen at the Nationals.

262869A1-B439-4810-B041-7564A4EE8F55.jpeg
 

Ez2cDave

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The phrase we Highland throwers use is ‘Manly men doing manly things...whilst wearing skirts.”

The night before the games was usually spent drinking beer in cowboy bars where we recruited a lot of big boys to the throwing fraternity.

Funny things happen at the Nationals.
Hmm . . . I wonder what kind of "fun" might ensue, if you picked a "Biker Bar", instead of a "Cowboy Bar" ?

LOL !
 

o1d_dude

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Hmm . . . I wonder what kind of "fun" might ensue, if you picked a "Biker Bar", instead of a "Cowboy Bar" ?

LOL !
Not sure there’s really a difference...Bikers, cowboys, whisky, and beer...all the same folks but I’ll ask my neighbor of the past 40 years.

He’s an old school Hell’s Angel (wears the colors, has the tatts, etc.) from the 1960’s through the present and lived in the mother house in Oakland till he met his wife. They tell funny/sad stories about Janis Joplin and still follow the Dead and Company.

His wife and my child bride are BFF’s. Women and their cats, right?

I had an old Harley knucklehead (‘46? ’47?) after high school but before the Army. Sold it to my ex-BIL and he straightened out a bend in the road, ‘sided the guy riding next to him and they both hit a power pole. BIL walked away, other guy not so much.

Haven’t thought about that in years.
 

Richard Dierking

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Well, to be honest, you sort of do irk me, Richard. People shouldn’t join Tripoli hoping to make it more like NAR, or to make the names of it events more P.C. Tripoli’s history is of stretching boundaries and providing an amateur rocketry safety framework for adults while having a more relaxed sense of fun and humor. That doesn’t mean we should be gender or racially biased; we shouldn’t, but the thought that we must fit into some polite image isn’t who we are.
Neither should anyone hope to change the NAR to be more like Tripoli. NAR has a great history of model rocketry, competition, and more than a score of years now very well managed HPR activities.
Trying to hold us both to the same set of standards is silly. We are wonderfully different and that adds a little spice. But I could see having an occasional celebratory joint events when there’s something to celebrate that we both recognize.
Well, you irk me too Steve.

LOL, not really, just fun to say that. I appreciate and respect what Steve says. I'm not offended by the rejection of my suggestions. Years ago I suggested that ROC change the "Peace, Love, Rockets" theme on T-shirts and that also went over like a fart in church.

But, I don't think it's wrong at all suggesting changes, even big ones. I think that TRA and NAR could learn a thing or two from each other. And, still interested in comments about comparing the two different publications.

If a TRA member becomes a NAR member, is TRA becoming more like NAR?

Not sure exactly why, but I don't like coming up with new words for the LDRS acronym vs just revision of the whole thing. Changing the words seems more PC.
So, how's the joint event plan going? I would like to see Kari there, she's cute as a button.
Want to see that NAR/TRA pin and hear about the revision of the L2 test and maybe a discount for mutual members. Or, how about a mutual publication.
 

ksaves2

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Ahhhhh,

I like NAR 'cause all the stuff they do with kids. No section anywhere near me so I support them. TRA as I like mixing when I can and like their casual flying that's usually the norm during club launches. Hence I support them too. Kurt
 

Ez2cDave

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Changing the meaning of LDRS from "Large & Dangerous Rocket Ships" to "Let's Do Rockets Safely" was discussed in the past. First, it was seen as revisionist history. Secondly, it was seen as political correctness. Third, the original reminds people that this is an inherently dangerous activity, when not done with care and attention to detail. Even low power rockets can be dangerous, when we don't practice safety.
Rich, I disagree with your assessment. I also disagree with your characterization of those who don't see a need to change the name of LDRS. (By the way, very few people that I know refer to it as "Large and Dangerous Rocket Ships."
The "Pansification" of Rocketry in the 21st Century, "Land of the Snowflakes" . . .

To me, it was, and always will be, "Large & Dangerous Rocket Ships" . . . even if it gets changed to the "Summer Rocketry Festival" or some other lame moniker !

As for"BALLS", it speaks for itself . . . Why try to turn it into "Beautiful Aerodynamics for Little Lame Snowflakes" ?

Dave F.
 
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ksaves2

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LDRS is a historical fact and the name should be left alone. Most just say the letters out loud and keep in mind what the meaning was from the early days. I think that perhaps it was a tongue in check thing as the early fliers knew they could pull off HPR safely and desired a contrarian nomogram just to show the naysayers they were wrong. Kurt
 

Richard Dierking

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Yeah, I don't think there is any chance LDRS or BALLS is going to change names. I think everyone is pretty cool with that, including me.
I want to see the name of the new NAR-TRA event. I'm sure you all will come up with something interesting. (Actually, it's a bit frightening.)

Party on
Peace, Love, and Rockets,
Richard Irking
 

Richard Dierking

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NAR is the most middle of the road organization I have ever held a membership in.

I have no problem with Large Dangerous Rocket Ships or Big Ass Load Lifting Suckers. The names are good by me.

Maybe I should join Tripoli. After all, I am a world champion log tosser whilst wearing a skirt so I‘ll fit right in.

View attachment 417030
Hey, where are the fins!!!
Oh, it's Toss Vector Controlled.
BTW: Thank goodness that rocket motors were created otherwise this is what we would all be doing.
 
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