Quantcast

Tripoli Rocketry Association or the NAR. Additional

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

DynaSoar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
3,007
Reaction score
0
Originally posted by scottluther1369
Which one should I join????
--Scott
For what?

They don't offer exactly the same things. It depends on what you want to do.
 

rstaff3

Oddroc-eteer
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
11,716
Reaction score
8
And possibly which one has a club closeby.
 

BobH48

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
3,370
Reaction score
1
Personally, I joined the NAR because I'm mostly interested in LPR.

I am planning to build a couple of MPR birds over the winter but they will be at the low power end of the range.

I also joined the NAR Section (CMASS) in my area and the launches that they put on have far exceeded what I was expecting.
 

GuyNoir

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
1,365
Reaction score
66
Location
Woodstock, IL
Ok, so this is an admittedly shameless plug, but here's a few things to think about . . .

<b>Sport Rocketry Magazine</b> - Expert Rocketry Tips. Remarkably Informative “how to” Articles. Electrifying Launch Coverage. Stunning Rocket Plans. Timely Product News.

<b>NAR Member Guidebook</b> - Even More Rocketry Tips. Classic Plans. Complete NAR Program Information. Manufacturer's Directory. Club Contacts

<b>NAR Clubs</b> - Practical, Proven Rocketry Experts. Valuable Rocket Help. Bigger, Better Fields. Terrific Equipment. Sensational, Amazing Launches. Wonderful Friends.

<b>Rocket Launches</b> -Thrilling Flights. Mind-Blowing Models. Unparalleled Rocketry Fun. The Ultimate Rocketry Experience.

<b>NAR Discount Coupons</b> - Save Rocketry Dollars with Unique Product Discounts. Discover Exciting New Rocketry Products. Exclusively Available for NAR Members.

<b>NAR Contest Flying</b> - Discover Hidden Secrets. Incredible and Unique Models. Remarkable Flight Performance. Unlock Your Competitive Fire. Become A Champion.

<b>NARTREK Program</b> – Challenge Your Rocketry Skills. Reach Beyond Your Boundaries. Imagine New Rocketry Horizons.

<b>High Power Certification</b> - Sizzling Motors. Superior Vehicles. Powerful Flights. Reach Beyond the Ordinary. Conquer Your Rocketry Challenge.
 

Darian Rachal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
628
Reaction score
0
Mark, Has any thought been given to allowing people to subscribe to Sport Rocketry, at a lower price than NAR senior membership, w/o joining the NAR? I know in the past this was possible.

I think SR is a very good rocketry magazine, but for personal reasons I am not inclined to join the NAR simply to receive the magazine.
 

hokkyokusei

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
2,895
Reaction score
2
Originally posted by Darian Rachal
Mark, Has any thought been given to allowing people to subscribe to Sport Rocketry, at a lower price than NAR senior membership, w/o joining the NAR? I know in the past this was possible.

I think SR is a very good rocketry magazine, but for personal reasons I am not inclined to join the NAR simply to receive the magazine.
You mean you can't currently do that?
 

Darian Rachal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
628
Reaction score
0
Not to my knowledge. If the policy has changed, let me know. I'll definitely subscribe, if it's a reasonable price.
 

hokkyokusei

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
2,895
Reaction score
2
I'm not a NAR member but I get Sport Rocketry through Apo11o in the UK.
 

Darian Rachal

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
628
Reaction score
0
Probably the simplest way would be just to buy a number of back issues at a time. That may be the best route to take.
 

Ozymandias

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
544
Reaction score
0
For a time I was a member of both the NAR and TRA. As I moved into HPR and began to pursue my certifications, I decided to drop my NAR membership. If you plan on starting in model rocketry and taking up HPR later I would suggest joining the NAR. They actively support both LP and HP rocketry. Tripoli is second to none in HPR and is gradually starting to support amatuer/experimental activities. If that's all you plan to fly Tripoli would be the best choice IMHO.
 

llickteig1

KLOUDBusters Chief Logistician
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
1,657
Reaction score
340
Location
Wichita, KS
I think your #1 consideration should be accessibility to a local club and launch site.

I live in Wichita, KS and we have a very strong TRA prefecture here with launches every month at a field that has a 25,000' waiver and wide open space for 10 miles in every direction. The focus is on HPR, but at each and every launch you will see more model rockets flown in terms of numbers than you will high-power. At every launch I see experienced HPR flyers assisting kids and adult model rocket flyers with various things like motor selection, design/build tips, etc.

On the other hand, there is a local NAR section, but I'll be darned if I can figure out when their launches take place. Their web site and launch schedule is not up-to-date (shows 2002 information) and one of their launch fields is bordered by a lake and a landowner who, as I understand, hates trespassers. High altitude flights are simply not possible there and even modest sized rockets on E or F motors can easily drift away to inaccessible areas. They do hold a NAR contest launch at another site which the TRA club doesn't; if that is your cup of tea. I understand that more of their launches are being held at the better launch site, but I can't find out when the next one might be.

This all makes the choice very simple for most local rocketeers, IMHO. It certainly was for me. I must add a disclaimer here: I am on the Board of the TRA club; but just a few years ago I was trying to decide just like you which to join and the strength of one club vs. the other made the choice back then very easy.

I suggest you attend nearby club launches of your most local TRA and NAR affiliated clubs and see if the strengths and/or weaknesses of one or the other is an important factor. Membership in a national organization isn't required to fly until you are ready to attempt your Level 1 certification and fly HPR anyway, so take some time to decide if you have options in your area.

My $0.02, --Lance.
 

Chilly

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
1,165
Reaction score
1
I'm considering switching allegiances for a couple of reasons and it's a very difficult decision.

Tripoli is great for high-power, but our club's launch record the past couple of years has been dismal (mostly for reasons beyond their control). But when they do have launches, they're first-rate. The local NAR section, however, has access to a pretty nice field that is available through the prime flying months. Unfortunately, they offer zero high-power support beyond having a field big enough for I motors.

So, I'm trying to get access myself to fields closer to home. I've been kicking around the idea with a friend of joining NAR and forming our own section that would focus on mid & high power. We'd both prefer to remain with Tripoli but flying only two or three times a year just ain't getting it.
 

GuyNoir

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
1,365
Reaction score
66
Location
Woodstock, IL
Originally posted by Darian Rachal
Mark, Has any thought been given to allowing people to subscribe to Sport Rocketry, at a lower price than NAR senior membership, w/o joining the NAR?
No, I can't see that happening. I don't think running a subscription business benefits the NAR either from a membership or financial perspective. We'll continue newsstand sales as a promotional tool for the NAR, however.
 

Elapid

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 2, 2009
Messages
1,734
Reaction score
0
Originally posted by narprez
No, I can't see that happening. I don't think running a subscription business benefits the NAR either from a membership or financial perspective. We'll continue newsstand sales as a promotional tool for the NAR, however.
i think selling subscriptions would get the magazines into more people's hands. people that NEED the information...maybe even people that might decide to become a full member at some point...by limiting the subscriptions to members, i think you are losing out on a HUGE segment of future rocketeers and denying valuable information to other members of our hobby. promotional tool.. i gues.. i thought NAR was supposed to be more concerned with education than self-promotion :confused:

just my .02

as to the original question, i'm a NAR member, but there are no NAR launches nearby. I fly with a Tripoli club. if i can afford two memberships, i'll renew my NAR membership; if not, Tripoli will be receiving my funds.
 

rstaff3

Oddroc-eteer
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
11,716
Reaction score
8
Unless the incremental cost of managing a subscription is over the cost to print an extra issue, I can't see why you wouldn't do it. Unless you think members would drop out because all they want is the mag? I tend to agree with elapid, however. But then my opinion doesn't count.

BTW, I am a happy (at least reasonably happy) member of both organizations.
 

GuyNoir

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
1,365
Reaction score
66
Location
Woodstock, IL
Originally posted by Elapid
i think selling subscriptions would get the magazines into more people's hands. people that NEED the information...maybe even people that might decide to become a full member at some point...by limiting the subscriptions to members, i think you are losing out on a HUGE segment of future rocketeers and denying valuable information to other members of our hobby. promotional tool.. i gues.. i thought NAR was supposed to be more concerned with education than self-promotion :confused:
The business question here involves distribution channels and conversion rates vs. the cost to support the channel.

Promotion of the NAR via the magazine isn't free so I'm looking for where to get the most "bang for the buck". Our rate of conversion from newsstand sales isn't all that high, roughly 2% or so. The newsstand sales help support the cost of the magazine production and distribution via the retail channels we use.

If we switch to a subscription model, I have to bear the cost of doing that distribution, meaning labeling, bundling for the USPS, postage, etc. Most direct sales models hit about the 2% conversion rate, so I don't honestly expect better conversion from this model. When we did this sort of subscription model in the 80's and 90's, the conversion rates were actually lower than the 2% we see with newsstand distribution. Since all the magazine subscription pricing I see is lower than newsstand, this distribution method also cuts our revenue. Higher cost, lower conversion, lower revenue; looks like a bad business deal to me.

Generations of NAR magazine editors, who mainly wanted to print neat articles about rocket stuff, struggled with the budget and economic issues, and our quality and production suffered. When I finally resolved to set up and manage the magazine as a business back in 1996, that changed. We wiped out $40,000 in outstanding debt and caught up with production, churning out 7 issues in a year. Two years later, I asked the president of our ad sales company what else I should have done, and he said "nothing, Mark; most magazine that far in the hole and that far behind in production schedule go bankrupt."

While about 90% of Sport Rocketry's success is directly attributable to Tom Beach's unparalleled editing skills, I think he'd tell you that not having to worry about cutting the magazine or skipping issues due to money problems is no small relief to him. The combination of the two, his editing and "NAR management's" prudent fiscal controls, in my opinion, result in a rocketry publication that can't be beat.

That's why I think offering Sport Rocketry to non-members via the retail channel is a reasonable compromise between making the information more broadly available and maintaining the NAR's financial integrity.
 

wwattles

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
2,859
Reaction score
0
A lot of good information there, Mark! Thanks for helping us understand "the business" behind the decisions.

It sounds to me like the main drawbacks to the subscription model lie in packaging and distribution. Today, many periodicals offer a "web only" subscription option, wherein a customer may purchase a subscription to the publication to view online. Costs involved, of course, switch from being on the packaging and distribution of print media to the packaging and distribution of web media. Personally, I have no experience in either, so I have no idea of how they compare, but I would think that electronic distribution might be cheaper.

Have you and your leadership team ever considered that possibility as an option?

WW
 

rstaff3

Oddroc-eteer
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
11,716
Reaction score
8
I still don't fully get it, but then I get my copy regularly so I don't really care either :)
 

Bill

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2010
Messages
479
Reaction score
0
Originally posted by narprez

While about 90% of Sport Rocketry's success is directly attributable to Tom Beach's unparalleled editing skills, I think he'd tell you that not having to worry about cutting the magazine or skipping issues due to money problems is no small relief to him. The combination of the two, his editing and "NAR management's" prudent fiscal controls, in my opinion, result in a rocketry publication that can't be beat.
No need to be so humble, Bunny. The two of you are doing a great job!


Bill
 

GuyNoir

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
1,365
Reaction score
66
Location
Woodstock, IL
Originally posted by wwattles
Today, many periodicals offer a "web only" subscription option, wherein a customer may purchase a subscription to the publication to view online. Costs involved, of course, switch from being on the packaging and distribution of print media to the packaging and distribution of web media. Personally, I have no experience in either, so I have no idea of how they compare, but I would think that electronic distribution might be cheaper.

Have you and your leadership team ever considered that possibility as an option?
I'm personally familiar with two publications I subscribe to who have web options. Both of them go at this in different ways.

I subscribe online to the Wall Street Journal. The content is 100% parallel to the printed edition. I pay them about $60 per year for this access. If I took the printed edition at about $75 per year, the web access would cost about $30 more. I chose to do web only because I leave the house at 5:30 AM each workday, and the papers in my neighborhood get delivered between 6 and 7.

Since these guys have stuff nobody else has, they are one of the few mainstream publications that have actually made money from their web distribution. The fact that they have nearly 2 million subscribers, many of whom are well heeled types on Wall Street doesn't get lost on adverstisers, and their ad rates undoubtely reflect that.

The second publication, RC Microflight, is completely different. For $29.95 per year, I get a 16 page two color publication devoid of ads, about 9 times per year, dealing strictly with micro RC "stuff". Their last issue showed their subscription base to be about 4,000 or so (the financial model is left to the reader as an exercise). Via the web, I can access the entire mag in advance of the printed copy. Portions of it on a delayed basis are available to non-subscribers; I'd estimate less than 10% of the total content is available in that way.

I've not run any financials on this, so I frankly don't know how it works. But I can tell you the problem I see with this is mechanical, i.e. how to make it happen.

To move to something like this, I'd have to have another dedicated volunteer willing to work on developing and maintaining the deployment of this material, figuring out how to set up and maintain the password protection for "subscribers", figuring out how to collect the funds, manage the subscriber database, coordinating with Tom Beach and the printer re: content, etc., etc. I think this sort of operation is a bit beyond our grasp.

It's not that any of this stuff isn't possible. Obviously others have figured out how to make it happen, but doing that while making $$ or at least not going broke is a distinct challlenge. When I see the problems facing the NAR right now, I just don't think this is the most important mountain for us to climb. In my opinion, we've got bigger fish to fry.
 
Top