Tripoli Membership Confusion

[John Kemker]

As a BABABAR (born-again, born-again, born-again rocketeer) who has to recertify, it's no big deal for me.

Do I feel I could build and fly an L3 rocket today? With the funds, yes. Successfully? Absolutely. Am I upset that I can't? Heck no. I understand the reasoning behind the policy and agree with it, even if I don't think it applies to me. However, if an exception is made for me, how can TRA enforce the rule when someone who really shouldn't be flying an L2 without going back through the process tries to fly an L3 bird? Also, who knows? I may *think* I'm capable of successfully flying an L3 off the rip, but what if my confidence is misplaced?

 

[Nytrunner]

decided to come back and build an L or M-powered rocket right off the bat.

Or perhaps Q/R powered?

 

[prfesser]

I'd like to point out the reality of "if you don't use it, you lose it" with a real-life example.

I taught undergrad and grad level chemistry for over 40 years in one venue or another, not to mention co-authoring lab manuals and textbooks (and a book that a lotta rocket folk have found useful ) Two years ago a colleague could have asked me to cover his/her freshman chem class, and I'd have been able to do so with not more than five minutes warning. Literally. In fact I've walked into a class with no prep whatsoever, only knowing where my colleague left off, and given a successful lecture and demonstrated relevant problem solving.

Today...I'd need at least an hour of prep, if not more, for every hour of lecture. And I'd still have difficulty because my problem-solving skills have deteriorated. In two short years.

Please, tell me again how every L2 or L3 (not just one, but every single one of them) who hasn't flown anything for several years can be expected to retain the skill set and knowledge that was acquired in his/her rocketry career, after a three-year (or more) hiatus.

Best -- Terry

 

[John Kemker]

I'd like to point out the reality of "if you don't use it, you lose it" with a real-life example.

I taught undergrad and grad level chemistry for over 40 years in one venue or another, not to mention co-authoring lab manuals and textbooks (and a book that a lotta rocket folk have found useful ) Two years ago a colleague could have asked me to cover his/her freshman chem class, and I'd have been able to do so with not more than five minutes warning. Literally. In fact I've walked into a class with no prep whatsoever, only knowing where my colleague left off, and given a successful lecture and demonstrated relevant problem solving.

Today...I'd need at least an hour of prep, if not more, for every hour of lecture. And I'd still have difficulty because my problem-solving skills have deteriorated. In two short years.

Please, tell me again how every L2 or L3 (not just one, but every single one of them) who hasn't flown anything for several years can be expected to retain the skill set and knowledge that was acquired in his/her rocketry career, after a three-year (or more) hiatus.

Best -- Terry

Prfesser, my confidence in my ability to successfully fly an L3 project today boils down to my knowing that I'd spend a lot of time refreshing myself with knowledge to cover the gaps. The knowledge may need refreshing, but I retain enough to know what I need to concentrate on, just like you do with your class analogy. Again, not everyone is going to realize what they no longer know and some will bull forward with no consideration to regaining lost skills/knowledge. Some of them will be incredibly lucky and not blow anything up or harm anyone. Others, not as lucky. Hence, why I have zero problem with TRA policy and am following it on my journey back to L3.

 

[speed]

This is merely my opinion of the "why" of TRA's policy. Simply put, if you don't use it, you lose it.

HPR is an activity that requires certain knowledge and skills. If knowledge and skills aren't used they deteriorate. Knowledge and skills for L1 aren't too difficult, and I don't think there would be a serious issue in allowing a lifetime L1 cert. L2 and L3---nope. I would be more than a little frightened if an L3 who got out of rocketry for five or six years decided to come back and build an L or M-powered rocket right off the bat.

Not to mention advances in technology---electronics, building materials, motors, etc.---can be confusing to someone who hasn't kept up with the activity.

No doubt there are some who could take a five-year break, come back, and successfully fly an M motor. But a blanket lifetime cert for everyone---especially the people I've seen (and most of you have, too) who failed their L1 or L2 more than once---scares me.**

Best -- Terry
**At one LDRS about 20 years ago I watched a guy fail his L2 flight three times in a row. In each case the chute didn't deploy and the rocket screamed in. Mind you, this was before electronics were required, so he was using simple motor ejection on a J350. Turned out that the BP he was using for ejection was Pyrodex, just dumped into the ejection well, no confinement.

Thank you, makes sense!

 

[OverTheTop]

Please, tell me again how every L2 or L3 (not just one, but every single one of them) who hasn't flown anything for several years can be expected to retain the skill set and knowledge that was acquired in his/her rocketry career, after a three-year (or more) hiatus.

It comes down to the individuals I believe. I know if I came back, even after five or ten years, I would be able to build and safely fly a rocket of whatever level. It depends on the mindset of the individual involved, and not just memory. Would there be holes in my knowledge by then? Probably not, but maybe. Would I let them remain unattended? No. Would I research any new methods that might have come along? Absolutely. That is just me personally, as I am the only one I can reliably vouch for. Other people might be more inclined to take a "she'll be right mate" attitude, or not. I know where I stand on the continuum, and will always do what is required to fly safely. YMMV.

Having said that it is not that difficult to fly L1, L2 and L3 again if needed.

 

[SandiaMan]

So I did get my membership card and binder earlier in the week. I also got my H130W in the mail and my L1 build well under way. Thanks to all for information and assistance and a lively discussion afterwards.

 

[o1d_dude]

I received my membership package this morning (yesterday morning as of this writing) and had a good laugh at my Level ZERO cert level on my membership card.

Not sure I‘m going to submit my actual NAR cert level as zero is the boss of all numbers. Think about it. Any ignorant savage can count from 1 to 10 but the concept of “zero” is a step beyond that because it is both a real number as well as an imaginary one.

Imaginary numbers are kewl.

 

[John Kemker]

Speaking of imaginary numbers...

sqrt(-1)
2**3
Σ
Π

It was good.

 

[tsmith1315]

Imaginary numbers are kewl.

They're not square, that's for sure.

 

[heada]

Pi*r^2 .... No, cake are square, pie are round!

 

[f.geiger]

Going to take a lot of heat for this . I started launching rockets in 1951 , I was 11 years old . Guess I was a basement bomber , except we do not have

basement's in south Fla.. Most of my rocket were low to mid power . Never hurt myself or any property ! Rocket kits were not invented , no clubs and almost

no information of any kind . {the information available today is mind blowing , think God for computers and 3D printers } Joined Tripoli a few month's ago trying to find

anyone in this area [ north cent . Ar. ] with the same interest , no luck

Rocket kits are fine , get a lot of people in the hobby . As far as starting the hobby ,that's a bunch of bull ! ALL OF THE EARLY BUILDER'S WERE HOME

BUILDERS ! SO LAY OFF .
Frank



























[

 

[Alby]

Does anybody know if Tripoli Memberships are still running slow?

 

[Worsaer]

Does anybody know if Tripoli Memberships are still running slow?

The following message is still on the Tripoli Membership page:

Please Note: Due to the pandemic, it may take longer than usual to process your membership. We appreciate your patience.

 

[jimzcatz]

Tripoli aint slow, YOU are impatient!!

 

[NateB]

My cert was updated by email, I received a reply the next day and my new card in less than a week. If you have a question, try emailing them.

 

[cichlidgoob]

I got my new membership card in the mail in about a week, but I’m still waiting to get loaded into their database so I can login to the site as a member. They told me they do bulk uploads about three weeks after you sign up and it has been three weeks, but no access yet. I’m patiently waiting...

 

[rfjustin]

Tripoli aint slow, YOU are impatient!!

Is this really necessary? What is the prickly attitude accomplishing here?

Seriously.

 

[dlb]

I renewed in May.
I still have not received my card.
Two calls so far, but Crickets.
Starting to get concerned, don't wanna lose my L3.

 

[Nytrunner]

I renewed in May.
I still have not received my card.
Two calls so far, but Crickets.
Starting to get concerned, don't wanna lose my L3.

If you have your receipt, shouldn't be a loss

 

[3stoogesrocketry]

I renewed October 25th , still nothing .

 

[Swany]

Same here. I’ve emailed them twice since September and have not received a reply.

 

[prfesser]

Hello Frank,

I know this is rather late but I did not see your post until today.

I am not sure to whom you are replying, or yelling at to "lay off," but rockets have been made for hundreds of years, by individuals, companies, and governments, both for serious uses and for fun. I do not know whether someone in the last 700 years came up with a toy rocket similar to today's....but over that 700 year period, with hundreds of thousands (millions?) of people worldwide making rockets, it would seem inevitable that *someone* did come up with the idea (but didn't patent it in the US).

Orville Carlisle was awarded that patent on his Rock-A-Chute in 1958. It is unfortunate that one or more of the early builders of whom you speak did not patent a reusable toy rocket that flies with a disposable motor and deploys a recovery system. Considering the money that has been spent on half a billion model rocket motors and millions of kits since then, that person(s) could have made a fair piece of change on the invention.

Check the Prefecture list on the Tripoli web page to find launch sites that may be close to you. It's not at all unusual for high-power folk to drive 4-6 hours or more to a FAA-waivered launch site. I used to drive seven hours to a field in Alabama. It's incredibly lucky that the Music City Missile Club's new field is just over an hour away from me.

Regards -- Terry
PS: I deleted a bunch of empty space after your name in this reply, I assumed it was accidentally included.

Going to take a lot of heat for this . I started launching rockets in 1951 , I was 11 years old . Guess I was a basement bomber , except we do not have

basement's in south Fla.. Most of my rocket were low to mid power . Never hurt myself or any property ! Rocket kits were not invented , no clubs and almost

no information of any kind . {the information available today is mind blowing , think God for computers and 3D printers } Joined Tripoli a few month's ago trying to find

anyone in this area [ north cent . Ar. ] with the same interest , no luck

Rocket kits are fine , get a lot of people in the hobby . As far as starting the hobby ,that's a bunch of bull ! ALL OF THE EARLY BUILDER'S WERE HOME

BUILDERS ! SO LAY OFF .
Frank

 

[jimzcatz]

I dont see why you cant use your original L3 rocket to recert.