Tripoli Membership Confusion

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SandiaMan

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Hi all,

I'm (optimistically maybe) working on my L1 certification build, but I've hit a bit of a wall, which is my TRA membership itself. I attempted to join on 7/12/2020, but since sending my payment I haven't gotten anything back. I reached out to the HQ email address as well as using the online form. Nothing. I'm not worried about losing my money, this isn't a big hobby filled with scammers. What I am wondering is if there have been COVID complications in the Tripoli offices, or if I just missed something. I checked my Spam folder, re-read my receipt, nothing seems to provide clarification, so I'm hoping that someone here might have an inside scoop or recent experience that helps.

Graham
 

NateB

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It took a few weeks for them to process everything from me earlier this year. I wouldn't worry yet, you'll get a nice binder in the mail with your card and the handbook.
 

SandiaMan

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Thanks for the info @NateB that's exactly what I was hoping for. I'm not trying to start any commotion just couldn't find any info stat specified that detail. There was mention of a physical or digital binder in the sign-up, and since payment was all digital I kinda assumed there would be some sort of automated digital delivery. Thanks for the info!

Graham
 

Steve Shannon

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Hi all,

I'm (optimistically maybe) working on my L1 certification build, but I've hit a bit of a wall, which is my TRA membership itself. I attempted to join on 7/12/2020, but since sending my payment I haven't gotten anything back. I reached out to the HQ email address as well as using the online form. Nothing. I'm not worried about losing my money, this isn't a big hobby filled with scammers. What I am wondering is if there have been COVID complications in the Tripoli offices, or if I just missed something. I checked my Spam folder, re-read my receipt, nothing seems to provide clarification, so I'm hoping that someone here might have an inside scoop or recent experience that helps.

Graham
Calling Steve Shannon.....
Graham,
I apologize. You should have gotten a membership card by now. Deb’s really good at getting those out, but it really has only been one week and with the pandemic HQ only takes stuff to the post office a couple times a week now. You signed up on the 12th, which was a Sunday. In case we may have had a problem with our online signup, I’ve emailed her. In the meantime please send me your contact information in a conversation. That shouldn’t delay anything though. To certify you can just show the Prefect your receipt and the Prefect can write TBD or “Pending” for your ID number on the certification form.
Depending on what level of membership you signed up for it may take a week or possibly two to get your member handbook. Or if you signed up for either junior or student membership at the special $10 rate, you don’t receive a binder, but instead you download the contents.
Our IT people will send you an announcement when you have been added to the database for the website so you can participate in the forums there. That takes a couple weeks usually.
Again, I’m sorry for the wait. I can still remember sending off box tops to get a pup tent and having to wait 8 weeks. They were excruciating!
Steve
 
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SandiaMan

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@Steve Shannon I think it was down to 3-6 weeks by the time I tried for the cool cardboard space plane on the back of the Cheerios box. It didn't fly well. Boy was it agonizing.

A few years back I joined our local hacker space. At orientation everything that could have gone smoothly didn't. At one point two of the officers there looked at each other and one said:
"Have you reminded them we're a volunteer organization?"
"Yes that came up pretty quickly this time."
"Oh. Good."

I try to always keep that in mind when working in an area that's about passions and not money, so hopefully nothing I wrote came of as distressed or upset.

I appreciate your time and the helpful information. I will wait patiently and use the time to better understand all the principles of HPR I can fit in.
 

Steve Shannon

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@Steve Shannon I think it was down to 3-6 weeks by the time I tried for the cool cardboard space plane on the back of the Cheerios box. It didn't fly well. Boy was it agonizing.

A few years back I joined our local hacker space. At orientation everything that could have gone smoothly didn't. At one point two of the officers there looked at each other and one said:
"Have you reminded them we're a volunteer organization?"
"Yes that came up pretty quickly this time."
"Oh. Good."

I try to always keep that in mind when working in an area that's about passions and not money, so hopefully nothing I wrote came of as distressed or upset.

I appreciate your time and the helpful information. I will wait patiently and use the time to better understand all the principles of HPR I can fit in.
@Steve Shannon I think it was down to 3-6 weeks by the time I tried for the cool cardboard space plane on the back of the Cheerios box. It didn't fly well. Boy was it agonizing.

A few years back I joined our local hacker space. At orientation everything that could have gone smoothly didn't. At one point two of the officers there looked at each other and one said:
"Have you reminded them we're a volunteer organization?"
"Yes that came up pretty quickly this time."
"Oh. Good."

I try to always keep that in mind when working in an area that's about passions and not money, so hopefully nothing I wrote came of as distressed or upset.

I appreciate your time and the helpful information. I will wait patiently and use the time to better understand all the principles of HPR I can fit in.
Thanks, but please still send me your name and contact information so I can relay it to Deb.
 

Tobor

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A few years back I joined our local hacker space. At orientation everything that could have gone smoothly didn't. At one point two of the officers there looked at each other and one said:
"Have you reminded them we're a volunteer organization?"
"Yes that came up pretty quickly this time."
"Oh. Good."
That is really funny....

Oh and welcome to Tripoli!
 

Steve Shannon

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Thanks for the info @NateB that's exactly what I was hoping for. I'm not trying to start any commotion just couldn't find any info stat specified that detail. There was mention of a physical or digital binder in the sign-up, and since payment was all digital I kinda assumed there would be some sort of automated digital delivery. Thanks for the info!

Graham
So here’s the where this stands. Deb has your packet all ready to go, but there’s a problem with the postal meter. Deb will email you your member ID so you have that in the meantime and Pitney Bowes has been called to fix their meter. 🤓
Welcome to Tripoli!
 

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complaining after ONLY a week? Unbelievable.
Jim,

I don't think he was complaining ....He was asking a question because he got NO feedback from his attempt to join.....
I do agree.. a week is hardly enough time to worry about it yet.
 

Steve Shannon

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Jim,

I don't think he was complaining ....He was asking a question because he got NO feedback from his attempt to join.....
I do agree.. a week is hardly enough time to worry about it yet.
I agree, he was not complaining. And it doesn’t hurt to check on things. We had an issue with the online system a little while ago that limited how people could pay for membership. Our people got that fixed as soon as they could, but I’m always a little anxious when someone mentions that they haven’t heard anything. In this case Graham had a receipt, so I knew that part went through. Based on what Deb said it’s obvious the necessary information got through to her also. All’s well that ends well!
 

heada

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We live in an instant world now. I order something from Amazon at 3AM last night and it's in my mailbox at 1PM today. This is the new normal for the vast majority of things. When we come across something that we expect to be instant but isn't, it causes questions and confusion. It's entirely possible to fully automate the TRA new membership sign-up process such that once you fill out the form online, it creates your membership in the database, it prints the handbook customized to you, your membership card and mailing label and then emails out electronic copies and tracking info on the handbook. Fully automating the process isn't cheap or easy so it isn't justified but when someone not familiar with the TRA office fills out the online form, there is some expectation that there would be an "instant" result. I don't blame them when after several days they're still left wondering if things are broken because they didn't get the instant result that they're used to.
 

Steve Shannon

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I agree, he was not complaining. And it doesn’t hurt to check on things. We had an issue with the online system a little while ago that limited how people could pay for membership. Our people got that fixed as soon as they could, but I’m always a little anxious when someone mentions that they haven’t heard anything. In this case Graham had a receipt, so I knew that part went through. Based on what Deb said it’s obvious the necessary information got through to her also. All’s well that ends well!
And, just so people know, they can always join Tripoli at a launch by turning in this form to the Prefect. They can even get their L1 certification on the same form.
 

Steve Shannon

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We live in an instant world now. I order something from Amazon at 3AM last night and it's in my mailbox at 1PM today. This is the new normal for the vast majority of things. When we come across something that we expect to be instant but isn't, it causes questions and confusion. It's entirely possible to fully automate the TRA new membership sign-up process such that once you fill out the form online, it creates your membership in the database, it prints the handbook customized to you, your membership card and mailing label and then emails out electronic copies and tracking info on the handbook. Fully automating the process isn't cheap or easy so it isn't justified but when someone not familiar with the TRA office fills out the online form, there is some expectation that there would be an "instant" result. I don't blame them when after several days they're still left wondering if things are broken because they didn't get the instant result that they're used to.
That’s exactly it. We’re accustomed to instant feedback. Maybe we need to add some verbiage on our receipt that helps manage expectations.
But we also keep our membership database unavailable from online access for security reasons. The website uses a limited copy that is separate from the membership dB.
 

SandiaMan

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I work as a contractor to the federal government so I agree that expectation management is the name of the game. I got an instant receipt from PayPal and Tripoli both, so that set the expectation. I definitely don't mind waiting at all, I just became concerned when the upfront was instant and then radio silence. I have been in contact with Deb and we're all set. 5/5 stars would recommend to a friend.

I appreciate everyone's participation and feedback. I'm really looking forward to getting more in to HPR and have met nothing but nice folks This only continues that pattern and hopefully nothing I said has conveyed anything other than my appreciation for the assistance.
 

speed

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I just got my new card with my new certification level! Personalized congratulation note included. Took about 2 weeks total.
Question, i am a member of both Tripoli and NAR. If my cert is recognized by the NAR for life, why doesn't Tripoli reciprocate?

Jeff
TRA 5903
 

phyzzld

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We had an issue with the online system a little while ago that limited how people could pay for membership. Our people got that fixed as soon as they could, but I’m always a little anxious when someone mentions that they haven’t heard anything.
I tried to renew my membership twice today and kept getting the error
"3ds Verification: Authentication/Authorization Failed: You do not have permissions to make this API call"
I think there may still be a problem.

Jeff
 

Steve Shannon

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I tried to renew my membership twice today and kept getting the error
"3ds Verification: Authentication/Authorization Failed: You do not have permissions to make this API call"
I think there may still be a problem.

Jeff
That sounds like a new one. Could I get you to try a different browser?
 

Worsaer

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I tried to renew my membership twice today and kept getting the error
"3ds Verification: Authentication/Authorization Failed: You do not have permissions to make this API call"
I think there may still be a problem.

Jeff
Jeff, I sent you a PM.

-Bill
 

mrwalsh85

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Thanks to all for volunteering to take on these activities that we, as members, sometimes take for granted. Without your hard work, we would not have these wonderful organizations to support our hobby - if we even had one!
 

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Back in 1968 I was the middle man responsible for collecting Estes orders and getting the order sent to Estes and getting back the items that could only be delivered to the local Sears store (which I thought was weird but it was rockets and motors), and having to go pick them up, this process took 3 to 4 weeks

Recently I waited for my Prusa mini for 7 months and have been waiting for a scanner for 8 months.

Some things are quick, some still take a really long time.
 

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I work as a contractor to the federal government so I agree that expectation management is the name of the game. I got an instant receipt from PayPal and Tripoli both, so that set the expectation. I definitely don't mind waiting at all, I just became concerned when the upfront was instant and then radio silence. I have been in contact with Deb and we're all set. 5/5 stars would recommend to a friend.

I appreciate everyone's participation and feedback. I'm really looking forward to getting more in to HPR and have met nothing but nice folks This only continues that pattern and hopefully nothing I said has conveyed anything other than my appreciation for the assistance.
What a nice man you are Graham,
I like to think of it that things happening instantly aren't the norm, they are the recent.
The norm is things done by hand and taking an appropriate time to do so..

You put it best here---

I just became concerned when the upfront was instant and then radio silence.

The banking side happens by today's recent / instant methode and the rest the norm methode..

As you have seen here there are lots of volunteers here..
What they do for us isn't their day jog.
With that in mind I am usually amazed at how quickly things do get done..

Graham,
Welcome to High Power,,
Welcome to Tripoli..
You are in a place of a great deal of knowledge and experience..

Thank you for your wonderful / pleasant demeanor..

Stay safe and healthy,,

Teddy
 

prfesser

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I just got my new card with my new certification level! Personalized congratulation note included. Took about 2 weeks total.
Question, i am a member of both Tripoli and NAR. If my cert is recognized by the NAR for life, why doesn't Tripoli reciprocate?

Jeff
TRA 5903
This is merely my opinion of the "why" of TRA's policy. Simply put, if you don't use it, you lose it.

HPR is an activity that requires certain knowledge and skills. If knowledge and skills aren't used they deteriorate. Knowledge and skills for L1 aren't too difficult, and I don't think there would be a serious issue in allowing a lifetime L1 cert. L2 and L3---nope. I would be more than a little frightened if an L3 who got out of rocketry for five or six years decided to come back and build an L or M-powered rocket right off the bat.

Not to mention advances in technology---electronics, building materials, motors, etc.---can be confusing to someone who hasn't kept up with the activity.

No doubt there are some who could take a five-year break, come back, and successfully fly an M motor. But a blanket lifetime cert for everyone---especially the people I've seen (and most of you have, too) who failed their L1 or L2 more than once---scares me.**

Best -- Terry
**At one LDRS about 20 years ago I watched a guy fail his L2 flight three times in a row. In each case the chute didn't deploy and the rocket screamed in. Mind you, this was before electronics were required, so he was using simple motor ejection on a J350. Turned out that the BP he was using for ejection was Pyrodex, just dumped into the ejection well, no confinement.
 

Steve Shannon

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I just got my new card with my new certification level! Personalized congratulation note included. Took about 2 weeks total.
Question, i am a member of both Tripoli and NAR. If my cert is recognized by the NAR for life, why doesn't Tripoli reciprocate?

Jeff
TRA 5903
Terry nailed it. There is a thread on this very subject in TRF as well so I’m not going to repeat everything that I said in that post. It boils down to this though, when we first established reciprocity, NAR and Tripoli both had policies that reset certifications if a person dropped out for more than a year. A few years ago the NAR changed their policy without discussing it with Tripoli. That put us into this position.
There are plenty of reasons for both policies. Add to that the fact that in Tripoli a person is allowed to fly Research motors which can also include class 3 motors. It would have been better to have worked out a compromise rather than the position NAR adopted.
 

Steve Shannon

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Terry nailed it. There is a thread on this very subject in TRF as well so I’m not going to repeat everything that I said in that post. It boils down to this though, when we first established reciprocity, NAR and Tripoli both had policies that reset certifications if a person dropped out for more than a year. A few years ago the NAR changed their policy without discussing it with Tripoli. That put us into this position.
There are plenty of reasons for both policies. Add to that the fact that in Tripoli a person is allowed to fly Research motors which can also include class 3 motors. It would have been better to have worked out a compromise rather than the position NAR adopted.
And here’s the post where I addressed the question before:
 
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