# TRFProject 001 : Aeronautica Argentina Orion 2

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#### Silverleaf

##### Well-Known Member
Howdy,

Well, the detail drawing is done after 9 hours of work - a large drawing at that, and uploaded to my page found at:

https://members.tripod.com/silverleaf_design/id57.htm#sd

The diameter is based on a BT60 ( I think ), which I got from Red Arrow Hobbies. 31.9 inches in length, and a 1/5th scale design. I had to add some additional detail info for the fin dimensions and decal placement. Its not perfect, but hopefully it will work.

I forgot to add in the thickness on the fin stock - but since we still need to pull together a part's list, I thought that could be done later.

Also, if someone is interested in doing it, we could use a Rocksim file created for this - just so we can be sure its stable - which I believe it will be based on the simple line of the rocket. I use Spacecad, and my Rocksim is only demo version 5.

I'm hoping that some of you will enjoy this project, and more importantly, would be willing to help me with the details and planning of the details.

NOTE Tripod is stingy with bandwidth, so if the site goes down, please try back in 2 hours.

Please let me know what you think of the drawing, and if I need to change anything. IF this works for you, and other projects are done in this series, I'd be willing to use this format for them.

Cheers,

#### sandman

##### Well-Known Member
Nice Job!

What did you draw that with?

What program?

sandman

#### Silverleaf

##### Well-Known Member
Sandman,

Many thanks 8)

A year or so ago I was searching for details on the Delta rockets, and I was searching for CAD software as well - so I typed in CAD, and hit search - not knowing I had Delta already in the searchbox, so when the search came up.. voila:

sandman

#### Silverleaf

##### Well-Known Member
Oh man, I just saw Quickcad at the local staples for 12 bucks, I think there was 1 left. lol

I don't use AutoCad, but on the off chance I create something that someone wants to look at in AutoCad, it would be nice to export it.

DeltaCad exports in DXF format..BUT it has 2 format options and the problem is that 1 will make all the lines super thick, or the other will lose all bmp objects and lose dimensions.

#### cls

##### Well-Known Member
OK, attached below is a rocksim for this project.

- I selected all Estes parts because those might be more familiar to most beginners. Estes does make BT-60/BT-20 centering rings but those are not listed in my rocksim db so I just made those parts marked as "custom".

- BT60 comes in 18" lengths, so I used one 18" and a coupler and a short piece to make up the scale length of the airframe.

- (maybe BT60 is not an exact scale match? the CAD drawings have airframe OD as 1.65". my beat-up old General plastic calipers have a sample of Estes BT60 as 1.63". Rocksim puts it at 1.637". I am not a scale freak so "whatever"!!)

- the fin pattern in this rocksim does not include the 0.27" bevel on the leading edge, as shown in the CAD drawings.

- I put 18mm MMT in the rocksim. that makes the model a bit underpowered perhaps and it could easily take a D12. putting an E9 in it would require nose weight.

for the decals, could someone put together a JPG & post it here?

I think the most difficult part of building this will be turning the nose cone. we should recommend the "soak-the-tip-with-CA" trick, it's a long skinny delicate nose cone.

#### Silverleaf

##### Well-Known Member
Cls,

Thank you very much for creating this file. 8)

Man, I'm amazed at how fast you created this. Guess I should mess around with Rocksim a bit more. lol

Ok..

- I selected all Estes parts because those might be more familiar to most beginners. Estes does make BT-60/BT-20 centering rings but those are not listed in my rocksim db so I just made those parts marked as "custom".

Estes parts are absolutely fine, and Totally Tubular, Red Arrow Hobbies and Fliskits have these available.

The centering ring was something I didn't think of, so great catch. 8)

- - BT60 comes in 18" lengths, so I used one 18" and a coupler and a short piece to make up the scale length of the airframe.

Yeah, a coupler would be needed for this, unless you were to get the TT 34 inch length tubes:

T-60 1.637 34 inch length \$3.50

- (maybe BT60 is not an exact scale match? the CAD drawings have airframe OD as 1.65". my beat-up old General plastic calipers have a sample of Estes BT60 as 1.63". Rocksim puts it at 1.637". I am not a scale freak so "whatever"!!)

I have the Red Arrow equivalent here and I didn't have a sheet to tell me the precise size at the time, so I rough measured, and guessed on the Scale conversion number to input. A BT-60 will work for this - even if it is off by .02. lol

- the fin pattern in this rocksim does not include the 0.27" bevel on the leading edge, as shown in the CAD drawings.

Thats absolutely fine, that should not make a difference for the stability issues here.

- I put 18mm MMT in the rocksim. that makes the model a bit underpowered perhaps and it could easily take a D12. putting an E9 in it would require nose weight.

Cool, I was guessing a D size motor would be the proper size here, and she should go fairly high.

for the decals, could someone put together a JPG & post it here ?

I've got the originals, the only thing that needs to be cleaned up is the O-14 image. The Aeronatica Argentina image will work as is, I just need to remember how to vector them as originals for proper sizing.

One last thought, when I tried to open the file, I got an error 3 times which read :

An Unknow Rocket part was read from this file, the offending part has been ignored.

Then Rocksim 5 crashed, perhaps its not compatible with your version.

Could you possibly post an image of the rocket and a screenshot of a flight with a D-12 - I'm curious about heigth and stability.?

Thanks again CLS, this will help immensley. 8)

#### cls

##### Well-Known Member
Hi Silverleaf,

the file was created with rocksim 7, I am not surprised it died in rocksim 5. I don't know any way to "down-rev" convert it. perhaps Mr Teflon will pipe up here.

since we're looking at 500+' on C6-5 I would guesstimate 1000'+ with a D12-5.

also, falling asleep last night I remembered - I forgot to put a launch lug on it! gasp! if you don't have any other suggestions I will put a 1/8" estes one at the CG.

unfortunately I am at work & don't have rocksim on this computer so I will do all this at home tonight.

regards,
Cliff

#### Rocketmaniac

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by cls
the file was created with rocksim 7
I guess we have to add CLS to the list of Rocksim guru's!!!!!

#### Silverleaf

##### Well-Known Member
CLS,

Rocksim 7 - ahh, that explains it..no worries though. 8)

Adding a basic LL will do just fine as well. I should have thought about the LL a little more myself. lol

Would you do me a favor and upload the parts list for this rocket ?

I ask only because I "should" be able to recreate it with Rocksim 5, and be able to post a dimensional image to the same page. I say should because I've not worked with Rocksim much.

Overall, I'm really inpressed with how quick you did this design, and that you were kind enough to help out with this project.

My admiration and a debt of gratitude to you. 8)

Guru for sure..^5ss

A

#### Austin

I am still using Version 5, 6.0 and 6.9...one of these days I may go to 7...sonn as the smoke clears.

Carl

#### graylensman

##### Well-Known Member
If you can send/direct me to the original artwork, I'll be happy to recreate in Illustrator.

#### Silverleaf

##### Well-Known Member
Gray,

Many thanks for the offer. 8)

The same link has the just added originals, after I cleaned them up for the larger detail drawing.

https://members.tripod.com/silverleaf_design/id57.htm#sd

I'm very grateful to everyone who is showing interest in this project, really, your willingness to help with this is very gratifying.

The next thing is to pull together a parts list and then formulate the building/tutorials process. I'm very excited by this project, and hopefully it will help newer designers along the way.

Thanks again..8)

#### cydermaster

##### Well-Known Member
Just butting-in here to:
• Get myself subscribed to this thread, so I get e-mails when its replyed to, and the thread is highlighted on the new posts page.
• Up my post-count by one.
• Say that I'm following this thread with a view to building one of these birds. I think this Forum Project idea is capital.
[/list=a]Keep up the good work chaps, you're efforts are much appreciated.

#### cls

##### Well-Known Member
OK Cyder, build one! and post pix & stories about how you turn the nose cone. I'm stewing about how to do it. I have a crummy drill press and no lathe. I have a checkbook and BMS's address, that might be easier.

here's the updated rocksim file, including the D12-5 simulation (1062') and a launch lug. also it looks like I was wrong about putting an E9 on it, it is plenty stable for that. 1800+ feet anyone??

unfortunately I can't make rocksim save a downrev file, nor can I make it print text nicely. so here's the parts list:

- 1x nose cone
- 1x BT-60 3.66" long
- 1x BT-60 coupler
- 1x BT-60 18" long
- 1x shock cord, eye bolt, parachute
- 1x 1/8" x 1" launch lug, 20" aft of nose cone tip (calculated CG)
- 4x fins, cut to pattern. 1/4" bevel on leading edge.

- 2x BT-60 to BT-20 centering rings
- 2.75" BT-20
- BT-20 to BT-5 centering ring for motor block

substitute BT-50 for BT-20 above, if you want a D & E sized MMT.

these days I wrap masking tape around the bottom of the motor and friction fit it in to the MMT. but you could put an Estes/Custom/Flis style bent wire clip on the MMT.

#### cydermaster

##### Well-Known Member
Originally posted by cls
I have a checkbook and BMS's address, that might be easier.
Agreed.