TRFKAB The Rocket Formerly Known as Black [IS BACK!!!!}

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blackjack2564

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Anyone remember this debacle ?

The Black rocket Vatsaas bros, made years ago.............

Screen Shot 2017-05-08 at 1.15.31 AM.png

Add letter from lawyer threatening lawsuit if built.

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Add reply here

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Add employee comments after bankruptcy.
 
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blackjack2564

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Explanation of molds.... pre assembled fins....prefabbed glass body.

20170505_105603.jpg

Even nose weight is included,[only 10oz] just pour shot into NC cavity with pre-installed eyebolt...add epoxy & done. Nothing to chipher... already done & done. Test flown proto ...like a bullet on H-123 and G-67-R..motor eject.

20170507_103502.jpg

Coming soon to a theater near YOU!!!!!
 
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blackjack2564

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It just became a reality. Test flown & Cj approved. Might even come in carbon if you want something NO one else has.

Not quite back in black.....more like 50 shades of GREY.:wink:

20170404_192343.jpg



Kinda looks like the TRF logo, don't it....or Marvin the Martian's ride?

Screen Shot 2017-05-08 at 1.34.04 AM.png Screen Shot 2017-05-08 at 1.34.34 AM.png


EVERYbody wants one...ya know you do to! 38mm motor mount.

It's not suppose to fly, but it does!
 
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cwbullet

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Where do we order?
 

Gary Byrum

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I took this photo of it this past weekend in Camden. Quite impressive too. Excellent flight.

12.JPG
 

rstaff3

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Awesome! I used to love the Vatsaas' website.
 

Onebadhawk

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Wow, is that cool Jim...
Hech yeah,, you've got a winner there for sure...
I love retro,,
everyone does these days I think...
That is a super cool kit Jim,,
good for you man...

Teddy
 

stealth6

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A bit of Vatsaas, mixed in with a bit of CrazyJim, throw in some AP, (and it's black)..........

It just doesn't get any cooler than this.

(unless you go that extra bit and make it carbon...)

sweet, s6
 

blackjack2564

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Hmmmm.....launch lug/s or button/s?
First to be perfectly clear...

This design is TOTALLY Charlie Ogino's [Carolina Composites] he's been developing new [resin infusion] methods to make this thing light enough and moldable enough to make it work.
There was no intention of selling these at all, but 11 have money down on pre-orders from 2 launches already, with several clamoring for the full size version to come back.
I'm just doing my thing with photo's & instructions......

Full length 3/8 brass tube/lug, built into body. Cut flush with airframe,at angle matching body curve, close to the stuffer tube. You barely notice it
Bottom end of lug . Don't think many would want to attempt cutting that hole! On interior the full length brass tube is covered with 2 layers of cloth on each end & laminated to body.

20170507_110113.jpg

Motor mount [carbon fiber] and motor retention, not installed yet in this photo



That parts already done when you get it, so are the body tubes pre-assembled.

Umm this rascal is being molded in 2 parts with RESIN INFUSION & real Gel-coat for a smooth exterior finish, I don't think anyone else in rocketry has got this far yet.

I'm just the mouthpiece for Carolina Composites. The build & instructions coming as soon as I finish it.

The complex nature of how this is done is very complex for such a simple looking kit.

Fins are 3 part. Center core of G-10 for strength and function with 2 outer layers of ply glued up, then routed and hole cut. They come pre-assembled and ready to glue to stuffer tube.

Fin slots are pre cut. I sure as heck would not want to tackle these.

As well as fin alignment jig included.
Even the CR has notches pre-cut for the recovery harness, which is included [1/8 kevlar]

This cute little rocket is a premium kit with a premium price, but after I do the build thread, I believe you will see where the hands on labor , thorough design & perfect flight capabilities justify the 225.00 tag

Body is obviously a 2-part mold,[resin infusion...google it] NC is another resin cast mold, which by the way is placed in pressure vessel and cured under 50lbs psi to eliminate any & all bubbles. The quality and attention to tiniest details is remarkable.

More coming soon.........
 
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blackjack2564

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Ok, continuing on with the story.

It's so hilarious the long read is worth the Brother's reply!

Whole thing came about when they notified the company of intent to build "Black".

This was the shocking reply from company attorney .....
...................................................................................

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Screen Shot 2017-05-08 at 4.43.45 PM.png





Dogbert Answers RTV Email
Letter Number 3

The Rocket Formerly Known as Black


I have a rocket that has no name. It is referred to only by the symbol or by the phrase "The Rocket Formerly Known as Black" or (TRFKAB). This is a pretty long story. I apologize. I'll try to make it as short as I can.

A company called Genuity has a product called Black Rocket. It isn't a rocket at all, but an Integrated E-business Platform, whatever that is. I really didn't care -- but their advertising featured a sleek, cigar-shaped, retro-styled, black rocket that I just had to build for myself. I found pictures of the icon on the Internet, and as is my custom, I documented both the build of the rocket and where the idea came from. So I posted the pictures on this web site, simply to give a comparison between the rocket I was building and the one I first saw.

Sometime during the build of I had the great idea; Hey! I'll bet the people at Genuity will think this is really cool! I thought their employees might get a kick out of seeing a flying rocket like the one in their advertising. Maybe they'd even like it enough to use it in their advertising.... Who knows? Being the enthusiastic chap that I am, and always eager to show off my handiwork, I wrote to the kind folks at Genuity several times trying to pique their interest.

I also politely asked them to voice any reservations they might have over me calling my project The Black Rocket because of its similarity to the name of their product, Black Rocket. It would have been simple and neighborly for them to do so. Instead of hearing from them, I received a threatening letter from Merton Thompson, an intellectual property attorney from the nation's top patent litigation firm, Fish and Richardson, P.C.:

From: Merton Thompson
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 1:21 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: Merton Thompson

re-send of correspondence

-----Original Message-----
From: Merton Thompson
Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 2:48 PM
To: [email protected] <--- Editor's Note: See this? It's WRONG!
Cc: Merton Thompson
Subject: BLACK ROCKET

VIA EMAIL September 13, 2002 Bradley Vatsaas [email protected]

Re: use of BLACK ROCKET

Dear Mr. Vatsaas:

We represent Genuity Inc. in intellectual property matters are writing to you on behalf of Genuity.

Thank you for your email message dated September 4, 2002, to Susan Kraus, Senior Vice President, Corporate Communications. We have reviewed your web site at http:/www.vatsaas.org/rtv/arsenal/bradrocs/black/black.aspx and have noted your use of Genuity Inc.'s (Genuity's) Black Rocket trademark, Black Rocket design mark (the rocket design logo you found interesting) and marketing material relating to Genuity's Black Rocket product offerings.

As you are aware, Genuity has incurred considerable expense in using and promoting its Black Rocket trademark and Black Rocket design mark since Genuity launched its flagship service offering in September of 2000. In addition to acquiring common law trademark rights in these marks, Genuity has also incurred additional expense by filing trademark applications with the United States Patent and Trademark Office and in numerous foreign countries. Under trademark law, Genuity, as owner of the Black Rocket trademark, must take action in order to prevent the dilution of its marks or the unauthorized use of our marks.

While we are pleased that you have found Genuity's advertising compelling, it was never our intention for the Black Rocket to take flight. In order to avoid confusing our customers or potential customers who might otherwise believe that Genuity sponsors or is in some fashion affiliated with your endeavors, we must insist that you cease all use of Genuity's Black Rocket trademarks and copyrighted marketing materials immediately. In addition to requiring that you cease and desist using our marks, posting or referencing our service offering and the marketing materials on your web site, we must also insist that you refrain from affiliating the rocket device that you intend to launch in Phoenix, Arizona during the weekend of October 12-13, 2002, or any other rocket device, with Genuity and/or its Black Rocket marks and products.

Please be advised that Genuity is prepared to take whatever measures are necessary to protect its valuable Black Rocket trademarks.

Very truly yours,

Merton E. Thompson
Fish & Richardson P.C.
225 Franklin Street
Boston, MA 02110-2804
[email protected]
Direct line: 617-956-5910
Fax: 617-542-8906
www.fr.com
This torqued me off for several reasons:

They didn't need hired muscle; all they had to do is ask. I can only imagine what Genuity paid to have that letter drafted. It's free to hit the REPLY button.
If no income is solicited or earned by using someone else's mark, this use is not normally infringement. Trademark rights protect consumers from purchasing inferior goods because of false labeling. If no goods or services are offered, there is no commercial use, hence no infringement.
They went too far. A common law trademark like Black Rocket is NOT the same as a registered trademark Black Rocket. The registration is not yet granted, so their exclusivity claims are not as far reaching as they portray. And even if it was , trademarks do not negate First Amendment rights, so they can't prohibit me from making any references to Genuity or their products, like I'm doing now, or to parody their advertising.

Genuity's Scope of Submission (a legal term) doesn't extend to rocketry. I can't go to market with an Integrated E-business Platform called Black Rocket, but if I want to paint my rocket black and name it that way, they have to live with it. I could paint my butt black and call it Black Rocket, too, and they couldn't do anything about that, either.

The letter above makes it sounds as though Genuity has a stranglehold on the black rocket name. Not so! According to the records database at the U. S. Patent and Trademark Office, the BLACK ROCKET CORPORATION of San Francisco, CA (ironically, a media advertising firm) obtained their registration of the mark in December of 1999 - almost a year BEFORE Genuity even filed. As a result, the service mark (not trademark) that Genuity is using is very narrow. (click HERE for proof!)


The bottom line is that I could legally continue calling "Black Rocket" and post it on the web site without fear of repercussions. But at this point I wouldn't do it just on the remote chance that someone thought I was promoting Genuity or their product. No free advertising from me.

For the record - I have no gripe with Merton Thompson (who has since left Fish & Richardson for Berns & Levinson). From his picture he looks like a really nice guy who would probably love to come and see the rocket fly. I feel for guys who have to do asinine, jerky things as part of their jobs.

Let it be known, however, that even though I may not hold any individual corporate lacky responsible for being compelled to comply with an idiotic decision or issue an empty threat, that will in no way stop me from pulling on his nose.

Our response follows.

Bradbert replies: (I'm worked up enough to write this one myself!)
....................................................................................
To: Janet Ledbetter, Vice President Marketing - Communications and Product Marketing, Genuity Inc

Cc: Susan Krause, Senior Vice President - Corporate Communications, Genuity Inc.
Cc: Merton E. Thompson, Fish & Richardson P.C.

Dear Ms. Ledbetter

I would like to start by setting your minds at ease and inform you that, as of 09/17/02, The Rocket Formerly Known as Black (TRFKAB) will, for an undetermined period of time, have no name but will be referred to only by the symbol .

I must also express my admiration for your insightful decision to disassociate Genuity from my project "in order to avoid confusing our customers or potential customers" as "it was never our intention for the Black Rocket to take flight." Presenting a rocket icon that can actually fly may erroneously bring to mind such negative adjectives as 'sleek', 'agile', 'spectacular', or 'lightning-fast'. As an Internet platform supplier, it is clearly in your best interest to recoil from these attributes as vehemently as you would from a child puking in a crowded elevator. The ingenious creation of an utterly inert Black Rocket icon displays an amplitude of innovative flair that must certainly be rare in the imaginative circles of branding and advertising.

I also thank you for the stark lesson in shrewd business tactics you so ruthlessly delivered in the letter from your legal council. It was a bold stroke, your commanding me to "cease and desist using our marks, posting or referencing our service offerings and the marketing materials on your web site." Had I continued to display your advertisements and provide direct links to your corporate web site, one can only speculate at the detrimental consequences that could result from such exposure - like commerce.

I should inform you that one of the ads I previously had on display was first seen on the CNN web site, accompanying a story on Osama bin Laden. No doubt you will engage the esteemed barrister Merton E. Thompson of Fish & Richardson P.C. to issue a cease and desist order, thereby preventing any unfortunate associations between Genuity and terrorism - although it may not be clear whether to send the correspondence to CNN or al Qaeda. Just make sure Merton checks the email address as he appears to have difficulty with cut and paste.

All this leaves me with the problem of selecting a permanent name for . In the remote likelihood that your scope of submission actually extends to model rocketry, it is my hope that further legal entanglements can be avoided through pre-emptive consultation with you and your legal counsel. I would like to know if there are any other innocuous combinations of commonly used words from the English language which, when shown together, may infringe on one of your valuable protected trademarks.

Below is a list of potential candidate titles:

Block Racket
Black Rocnot
Piceous Rocket
Svarte Rocket
The Rocket Whose Color Is Due To The Fact That It Absorbs All Colors Of Light And Gives The Appearance As Such
The Rocket Whose Color Is That Which Is Described On The Album [after the album previous to the Black album] From The Artist Formerly Known As Prince While He Himself Was Still Known By The Name Which He Was No Longer Known By And Is Now Known By Once Again
The Pot That Calls The Kettle Rocket
Couldn't Market My Way Out of A Paper Bag Rocket
As Creative As A Warm Pitcher Of Spit Rocket
Twitching Sphincter
Janet Bedwetter
Mrtonssan (kind of like farfegnugen)
Gen-Ptoooo-ity
Genscrewyoutooity
And the current frontrunner:
Merton
In anticipation of the future use of the Merton trademark, Rocket Team Vatsaas intends to acquire common law trademark rights in these marks and will file trademark applications with the United States Patent and Trademark Office and in numerous foreign countries. Under trademark law, RTV, as owner of the Merton trademark, will be prepared to take whatever measures are necessary to protect its valuable Merton trademarks. In order to avoid confusing our friends, creditors, and distant relatives who might otherwise believe that RTV sponsors or is in some fashion affiliated with your endeavors, we must insist that you be prepared to cease all use of RTV's Merton trademarks and copyrighted materials. We also suggest that Merton Thompson change his name to Mark, in which case Rocket Team Vatsaas will take whatever measures are necessary to protect its valuable trademerton.


In conclusion, I wish you the best of luck in all your future advertising endeavors. I have no doubt that, under your unrivaled visionary leadership, each successive campaign will be even more obtuse and incomprehensible than the ones that came before.
Sincerely yours,
Bradley A. Vatsaas
Fish and Cutbait, DMA*
*Doesn't Mean Anything

Getting complicated just to build a stupid rocket.....ain,t it?

Saga will continue!!!
 

rstaff3

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I remember seeing that on their website :point: It is worth a 2nd read!
 

blackjack2564

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I remember seeing that on their website :point: It is worth a 2nd read!
That site was one of my favorites when I first started back in 2002. Shame it's gone now.

I found it on the WayWay back machine.

Charlie called Brad and asked his permission to replicate "Black" of course he thought that was the ultimate opposite response needed , since his entire soliloquy was about not needing permission.LOL

He has a crashed original version, [1 of only 2 made] that he took scale measurements from to make this.
Several have "demanded he bring that one back to life too. But that things weighs a ton 38lbs for something of it's size.....the one in picture with Brad above.
 

rstaff3

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That site was one of my favorites when I first started back in 2002. Shame it's gone now.

I found it on the WayWay back machine.

Charlie called Brad and asked his permission to replicate "Black" of course he thought that was the ultimate opposite response needed , since his entire soliloquy was about not needing permission.LOL

He has a crashed original version, [1 of only 2 made] that he took scale measurements from to make this.
Several have "demanded he bring that one back to life too. But that things weighs a ton 38lbs for something of it's size.....the one in picture with Brad above.
I loved all their 'bulbous' rocket designs. They were working on a big SpaceShipOne when they seemed to burn out. Good stuff and their Dogbert stuff was hilarious, as evidenced by the one you posted. This one looks nice but is a tad out of my price range.
 

stealth6

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First to be perfectly clear...

This design is TOTALLY Charlie Ogino's [Carolina Composites] he's been developing new [resin infusion] methods to make this thing light enough and moldable enough to make it work.
OK, now it's a Vatsaas/Crazy Jim/Carolina Composites thing.
That IS actually even cooler.

Way friggin' unbelievable totally cool, in fact.

peace,
s6
 

Incongruent

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Can you rename it "The Rocket Formerly Burdensomely Labeled As Black?"

Or TRF-BLAB.
 

terryg

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My favorite Vatsaas creation was: "The Happy Birthday Party Napkin Rocket of the Apocalypse". This would be a great second project for this construction method.

View attachment 319579

napkinflight1.jpg
 
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blackjack2564

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Still taking "orders"?
Yes, by all means.......send info here, you can do web or put ph# for call back. Mention "Black" in comments . Charlie will call/reply with deposit info. [50.00 deposit] Price of kit 225.00 ,if you wish to reserve one. Otherwise they will become available public,when the pre-orders are filled.
The molds are running overtime.



https://www.carolinacompositerocketry.com/contactus.sc

I'll be doing a build thread in High Power. Just seems this test area ran rampant, that's Ok. we'll keep the noise here & build separate.
 
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blackjack2564

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Finally a typical letter from former employee after company went "belly up''.....



From: Tom
Sent: Tuesday, January 28, 2003 8:31 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc:
Subject: The Rocket Formerly Known As Black

Brad,

I'm sure you will hear (or have heard) from many former Genuity employees. Bravo for your very well written perspective on the Genuity debacle!
I did technical writing and web development for the web hosting group until May of 2002. Since I worked in the HQ area, I decided to take some pictures of the real Black Rocket icon to put on an internal web site. It was on a pedestal, under glass (see attachment). I remember thinking how bizarre that it was located in an area that few people ever got to see and how impotent it looked. I wanted to create an animation to give it some life but there was no enthusiasm for the effort so I dropped it.
As an employee, I was puzzled by their failure to put anything meaningful in their ads to give the mysterious symbol a modicum of credibility. After awhile, it became apparent that even though we had a huge infrastructure and the best of employees, there was no game plan. There really was no intention of making the rocket fly! I can't get over how you have documented the words from their own lips! We came to know through this fact through unfortunate circumstances but your chance encounter with Genuity has illuminated the truth for all the world to see!
Many of us invested money out of pocket because we were encouraged to "catch the vision" of what the organization was doing. What a load of crap! (not to mention that employee incentives & 401Ks were tied up in their bogus scheme). Hundreds of people are now out of work and by the end of this week, about 1000 more will join our ranks.
For many of us, seeing your web site is certainly a poetic way to cap off the "Twilight Zon-esque" blip in our careers. You might find it interesting that a $1100.00 minimum investment in Genuity IPO stock (issued in Aug., 2000) yielded $0.38 when we cashed it in last December (of course, a lot of people got suckered out of much more than we did). A company named "Level 3" is at this moment going through Genuity's corporate holdings in Woburn, MA, picking the corpse as part of the bankruptcy proceedings. Wonder what they will do with the Black Rocket icon?
You should have been the CEO -- at least we would have gotten to see the rocket fly.
Regards, Tom

If you wish to delve into the inner dark secrets of the Black Rocket, enter here to find original build, Rocksim etc...etc..

https://web.archive.org/web/2015091...aas.org/rtv/arsenal/bradrocs/black/black.aspx
 

MaxQ

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ChuckH

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I loved reading that story back in the day. Thanks CJ for bringing it back around.
 

blackjack2564

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Ok, which one of you nutz, talked Charlie into to making you an ALL Carbon Black?
Even stacking carbon plate to get fin profile in All Carbon.
 
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