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Tobor

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It was brought to my attention that not everyone has Openrocket or Rocsim and I can't wrap my head around that idea. LOL. I had Openrocket before I had rockets to fly. So I am posting the sim results and a brief write up on said results. Now to those of you who know OR inside and out...I may have missed a detail. I have about 14 iterations of this thing in my sim folder so be gentle. Mass and Cg will change after it is assembled. I will mark the CP, and maybe empty CG, when complete and come back here with the updated file(s). Omitting the retainer doesn't help enough for me to fool with the hook. I will save some mass when I mod the MMT (yes I fixed that you witch hunters 😁) and fin tabs; and there are a few tricks I can use to shave a little here and there. A wood or paper CR up front will help some, the fin tabs will hold the MMT once everything is assembled. I think I can remove enough glass to account for the added mass of the epoxy.

View attachment 445797

View attachment 445813
It looks like the website fubar'd your uploads. The links are not valid. Would you mind uploading them again?

Also, I just noticed that I am fourth on the list. I won't be attending any launches until Mini Midwest Power or Woosh/TWA at Bong in late May. So, you may wish to put me at the end of the list.
 

tsmith1315

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That's a good topic to bring up, Tobor.

Not to optimize the route, but to minimize dormant time, would it be helpful for fliers report if they will be flying individually or depending on a club launch?
 

MikeyDSlagle

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It looks like the website fubar'd your uploads. The links are not valid. Would you mind uploading them again?

Also, I just noticed that I am fourth on the list. I won't be attending any launches until Mini Midwest Power or Woosh/TWA at Bong in late May. So, you may wish to put me at the end of the list.
I'm not surprised. I have been having issues here and with OR since I took over the project. Makes me look like a goof! LOL.

I've been hurriedly working on this project in the evenings and small details have been slipping by me. I found an incorrect value in the sim file I posted, it had little bearing on the results but I needed to correct it. I'm not real happy with that fin shape but it's not horrible. I found a sim I had built that had DRM looking fins that improved the performance quite a bit. But it makes the thing look like a DRM and will be thought to be a clone. But function over form, it may be the best way to go. Doesn't look bad, just DRMish.

On the Wanderer V3, you can edit the fins and delete the second point in the fins to give it a more traditional sweep. Bring the ballast in the nose cone up to a 1.0 oz and that is another iteration that we have been playing with. It's more form over function but performance is similar. I was doing that myself and uploading various iterations, but it has me juggling multiple iterations of the same file and I inevitably leave out details. And believe me, folks let me hear about it. LOL

Wanderer V5 is with the DRM-esque fins.

I may have some 1/4" tubing here for lugs. If not I can print something.
I managed to bring the adapter down from .37 to .22 oz (estimated using Cura).

The kevlar that came with it is 3/16 or so, weighs .5 oz, seems like overkill for such a small rocket. I have some thinner stuff that came with my MDRM that I am not using for it. I will dig it out and check the mass. I can save quite a bit there. Will use the heavy stuff as an attachment point to the MMT and the thin stuff for the main harness.

Sure @Tobor I can bump you down as needed, no problem there.

@DeepOvertone
I got you on the list
 

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jqavins

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I did some work on it this morning then went out for most of the day then came home to find that what I started from is now obsolete. I'll open up V3 and V5 and see if they would still benefit from what I did. I had managed to get the static margin with a D12 up to 0.9, and the rod exit speed over 40 mph with a C11 and a 34" rod.

I'll post again later.
 

dhbarr

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That's a good topic to bring up, Tobor.

Not to optimize the route, but to minimize dormant time, would it be helpful for fliers report if they will be flying individually or depending on a club launch?
I, for one, will be flying at home.
 

jbrracer

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That's a good topic to bring up, Tobor.

Not to optimize the route, but to minimize dormant time, would it be helpful for fliers report if they will be flying individually or depending on a club launch?
i can fly at home or feb 13th depends on when it gets to me.
 

jqavins

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I'll be flying in the farm field next dor, If I can get the farmer's permission.
 

Tractionengines

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I can fly 2nd & 4th saturdays at club site, or at home if needed other times depending on what altitude it sims to.
As for switching places, doesn't matter to me . Put me in where needed...
Mike
 

rdrown

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MikeyDSlagle sent me the .rkt file converted from his open rocket. He also sent data including weights and measurements. I went over all the data and have included the .rkt file for Rocksim here.
Richard

ps. I can fly anywhere, anytime.
 

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Wally Ferrer

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A club launch would be preferable, but I think I can manage a low altitude launch fairly close by.
 

MikeyDSlagle

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Folks
I've been a bit absent the last couple days so here is an update.

I printed some 1/4" lugs but they just look too big. I found what I think is 1/4" tubing I can use for launch lugs, it will look better. I am going with the smaller Kevlar that came with my MDRM as the harness with 1/4" attachment points in the nose cone and MMT.

I got the fins cut to the final profile late Saturday, and managed to get the MMT assembly built last night. Went to test fit the fins and now it seems the fin tabs have grown. They will need to be trimmed. But ... winter showed up Sunday with a little snow, some ice and sub freezing temps, combined with my 10 hour days at work... hopefully I can get it done this weekend. I don't have a shop so I have to drag everything out and then put it back up.

Good news though is that working 10 hour days results in having Friday off. Bad news is we got the call last night with a death in the family and Friday is the funeral, and I may be a pallbearer. Friday will be a long day.

We will need to hash out the details on when everyone can fly and such eventually, I just haven't had time to work on the details. If I can't get access to the larger field nearby then I may not be flying it at all. I thought I had some C18s in the hoard but turns out I don't, so I either need to order them or find a bigger field..preferably both.j
 

shawn_rocket

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No worries! I am excited to help kick this off, but no rush! I have a field in Saint Louis that I can fly on anytime (weather permitting). Thank you for putting this together and building the rocket. As a N00b BAR as of March 2020, I can't even begin to tell you and everyone else here on TRF how cool my experience has been getting back into rocketry. Secret Santa, Traveling Box and this! Just amazing. And a big THANK YOU Mikey! 🤓 :headspinning: And no matter what, family (and yourself) first, rocketry second (at least for me)!!!
 

Sooner Boomer

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Hang in there, Mikey. You've done a great job on this rocket, even if I do poke at it from time to time. Look forward to flying it!

On a seperate subject, you have any problems with tape retention for engines, or does it *have* to use a hook?
 

MikeyDSlagle

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Folks, we have a rocket. :dancingelephant:

20210115_165945a.jpg


Turns out the fin tabs were fine. When I cut down the fins I trimmed the fin tabs as well and took a bit out of the root chord, which left a gap between the root and the airframe. And since I no longer needed to drag out my saw I was able to work on it a little last night and I just finished pulling the fillets. The conformal guides on are as well, it is sitting on the rail until they cure. It's a good way to make sure they are aligned but I had to spin the rocket a tad and will probably have epoxy to clean up. Yeah I can pull it up and check. Then when I put it down I may have to spin it again. Rinse repeat. Been there.

So yeah, the fins changed again. I cut several profiles from paper and this one looked the best. I expect to need a tad more nose weight in the nose but it won't be much and according to the sims it will only lose a tad bit of velocity off the rail and will result in lower altitudes, which isn't a bad thing for this project. These fins won by one vote as only one vote was cast. 🙂

That top fillet isn't as ugly as it is in the picture, I guess that is just the way the light plays off of it. There will be some sanding to do on the fillets as always and may need to put some spot potty on it but I think they turned out well. I've never pulled silky smooth fillets using Cabosil (fumed silica) but the stuff is light and strong, and sanding won't be too bad. And I still need to sand the nose cone.

Yeah my work station is pretty cluttered... mind yer bizness. LOL You can see the shock chord material there in the background. It's small but should be plenty for this small rocket.

Hang in there, Mikey. You've done a great job on this rocket, even if I do poke at it from time to time. Look forward to flying it!

On a seperate subject, you have any problems with tape retention for engines, or does it *have* to use a hook?
I have never used tape retention. Some folks do and swear by it but I prefer more positive means of retention. It's got an Estes retainer on it.


Thank you everyone for the words of support and encouragement.

I'll get the list updated in a bit and I have a caveat to the (nonexistent) rules I need to run by the group.
 

MikeyDSlagle

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Updated list:
If I missed anyone, let me know. Some folks missed the instructions....
  1. shawn_rocket ---- Missouri
  2. jbrracer ---- Indiana
  3. Wally Ferrer ---- Virginia
  4. Tobor ---- Illinois
  5. bobbyg23 ---- South Dakota
  6. Tractionengines --- Ohio
  7. jqavins ---- New York
  8. CPUTommy ---- Massachusetts
  9. rdbrown ---- Kansas
  10. dhbarr ---- Oklahoma
  11. Sooner Boomer -- Oklahoma
  12. tsmith1315 --- Georgia
  13. TheTank ------ Connecticut
  14. tcblightning ---- Arkansas
  15. DeepOvertone --- Louisiana
The caveat I mentioned and it isn't really a caveat just something that needs to be put out:
This is a group project. We all want to fly the rocket or we wouldn't be here. Be mindful of those in line behind you. Everyone has been patient and mostly cooperative but if I send you a message or tag you here with a question I will be needing a response. A few of you have given me a phone number and I will resort to that if need be but rather wouldn't.

When you as a Host receive the rocket, let me know either via tagging me here or sending a message, so we all know what is happening and where it is.
Try to fly it as soon as you can though sometimes flying a rocket just isn't possible so don't feel pressured into flying it in unfavorable conditions. The rest of us will need to be patient so as not to pressure the Host into doing so.

Once flown, pack it up and let me know it is ready. I will contact the next in line to see if they can fly it soon and are ready to receive it, if not I will move down the list. If I don't receive a response in a timely manner then that Host will be skipped until I hear back from them. Hate to do that but that is how it has to be I can't wait two or three days here and there waiting for responses. If there is no response within a week then that Host will be removed from the roster until they contact me to be put back on the list. Sound fair? I don't want to be constantly contacting a Host and getting no response.... Well I won't be. LOL. If we get into a lull or reach the end of the list and someone wants to fly it again then let me know I will have it sent back to you. Maybe you want to take it to Airfest or Midwest Power or whatever. Let everyone get a turn first.

As it stands now the last person on the list is my flying buddy from South Louisiana so that would bring it full circle.

If you want, you can send me a phone number so I can contact you directly when it is your turn. Be prepared to receive a text because I prefer not to call anyone. Once you hear my accent, a deep southern drawl, you will wonder how I manage to tie my shoes in the morning. LOL

I am waiting to hear from a family friend to use his property to fly. I had permission years ago but haven't talked to him in quite some time. I'm sure it won't be a problem. There are a few fields here by me as well, literally right down the road, that will be big enough to fly on I just need to track down the owners. Yeah I am a horrible neighbor. Lived here almost 15 years and don't know the property owners.

Still no stickers from TRF, so....
 

jqavins

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May I suggest, first, that you PM the next host when the rocket is ready to ship. We don't all get notified of @ tags.

Second, if someone has to be skipped, on the first offense you could move them to the back of the line (and notify them) rather than off the list pending a response. The if there's no response when it gets around to them again, go ahead and drop them.

And really, we don't expect it to happen. If it were to show up at my door when I couldn't fly it for a month, I'd tell you right away (and ask you to move me to the end of the list) and send it on. I expect we're all that way. I expectit will go smoothly. And good thinking to decide ahead in the unlikely event it doesn't.
 

Tobor

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@MikeyDSlagle The updated rules work just fine for me. As to TRF stickers, I recently received a pair in the mail. I can mail one to you if you are interested. Just PM an address.

Alternatively, you could print up some from the png image shown on the top left corner of every forum page. Admittedly, not as convenient as a sticker. Just a thought...
 

MikeyDSlagle

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May I suggest, first, that you PM the next host when the rocket is ready to ship. We don't all get notified of @ tags.

Second, if someone has to be skipped, on the first offense you could move them to the back of the line (and notify them) rather than off the list pending a response. The if there's no response when it gets around to them again, go ahead and drop them.
Yes, the next Host will be contacted via PM when they are on deck as well as tagged just to keep things in the open and PMs get difficul to juggle at times. But good point on notifications.

And I think we are thinking pretty much the same thing. You just laid it out better.

I don't really expect a problem as only one person hasn't responded to one of my PMs but I see they are active on the thread. I just tag folks when I need to get someone's attention or reply without a quote.

@Tobor
I can probably make some stickers with my CriCut. I'll look at it and see. I'm kinda weird in that if I am going to display a logo or company name or some such, then the company will provide me with the means to display it. Be it a shirt, hat, or sticker. Yeah, weird.

I am permitted to use the TRF logo, not required. It's not something that will hold up the project. Nothing negative towards TRF or the admins here. You can slap one on the box when it gets to you if you want.
 

jqavins

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I am permitted to use the TRF logo, not required. It's not something that will hold up the project. Nothing negative towards TRF or the admins here. You can slap one on the box when it gets to you if you want.
I might. When it's advertisimg a company for profit I feel just as you do. When it's promoting something I want to support for my own reasons, I don't mind spending a couple of bucks. I know the forum owners are running it as a business, but it still feels more like the other case to me.

If some business wants me to wear their shirt like a walking billboard then I'm damn well not paying. Sure I like, let's say, Dinosaur Barbeque, but they'd have to pay me to do their advertisimg for them.
 

MikeyDSlagle

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Nose cone and fillets were sanded today and spot putty applied amid 20 mph winds. 🥶 Should be able to sand it down tomorrow and, weather permitting, get a coat of primer sprayed.

I might. When it's advertisimg a company for profit I feel just as you do. When it's promoting something I want to support for my own reasons, I don't mind spending a couple of bucks. I know the forum owners are running it as a business, but it still feels more like the other case to me.

If some business wants me to wear their shirt like a walking billboard then I'm damn well not paying. Sure I like, let's say, Dinosaur Barbeque, but they'd have to pay me to do their advertisimg for them.
Yes! BassPro and RealTree are the worst! They want me pay 20 to 40 bucks for a hoodie with their logo covering the entire chest. Nope but if they give it to me I will wear it. They can pay broadcasting companies for air time, or NASCAR for space on the car and such but they want me to advertise for free. The only logo I wear is a cap with Nichols Dry Goods, a local small business department store that been has been here forever. I bought a rifle for my daughter and they gave me a nice cap, I wear it often. I do wear shirts with logos such as Vault-Tec, Nuka Cola, Floki Ship Builders and stuff like that. 😁
 

Sooner Boomer

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Rocket looks good. Can't wait to put it up. I might just have to spring for some composite SU motors.

An idea; put another thumb drive in with the rocket (I can send you one). On this will go pictures (or videos) of the launches and the folks doing the launch. You could alsp put a copy of the Open Rocket installer on the drive. Wish I had a cheap digital camera to throw in, but I gave mine away to a forum member a couple of years ago.

Can we put stickers on the rocket? I think this was mentioned in a previous post somewhere up there ^. I also think signing the rocket was mentioned. I guess there would have to be a minimum amount of rules about this - just items of politeness. Don't pull other peoples stuff off or cover it (unless necessary). Maybe a maximum size for the stickers. I was thinking of putting on a sticker with the OU logo, and one with the new Oklahoma state logo (my avatar).
 

jqavins

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It really shouldn't need two thumb drives for all of that. The OR and RS files will take virtually no space at all. You could add the OR installer, the RS demo version installer, and still have lots lf room for pictures and video.

I request that people who do put on pictures and video, pleas use nicely descriptive file names.

Also, maybe include a spreadsheet on the drive for people to record their results? Or maybe that's better done with a file on a cloud service (I vote or Google Drive)?
 

tsmith1315

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The spreadsheet is a good idea, Joe. That would facilitate an easy running total of flight distance and links to things like to online videos or flight coordinates, too.

Perhaps a link in the OP to the sheet?
 

MikeyDSlagle

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@Sooner Boomer
Yes. Get out of the dark ages and get some composite SU motors already! LOL

The thumbdrive is 32Gb. That should hold plenty of photos and videos. If it starts to get full then someone can grab another. They are cheap nowadays.

The OR installer is on the thumbdrive.

As for the stickers. Yes stickers are fine. Sizes will need to be limited of course. Can't really say one sticker per Host as some are bigger than others. 🙄 Yeah I said it LOL. Maybe a maximum amount of real estate taken up on the rocket. But I don't really want to get out into that weed patch. All I can say is use your best judgement on the stickers. There will be a notebook riding along that folks can use for stickers also, along with the box of course.
A few stipulations on stickers:
  1. No profanity should go without saying. But we are all adults and that doesn't mean small catchy phrases are out. Example is I have a patch for my hat (and maybe some stickers here somewhere) that is a bomb with a big letter F on it. We know what it means and it's not exactly profanity, though not exactly acceptable in all circles. I love a good joke and sometimes a dirty word goes a long way to get a giggle out of someone. Just keep it clean(ish).
  2. No PRO sports teams....At all. College is not professional so I don't have (too big of) a problem with college teams. This may be a touchy subject but some teams I hate and don't want to see them on this project.
  3. We are not advertising for free for anyone. If JayBob's Diner wants their logo/name on the box then they need to come off of some money to help buy motors, shipping, parts, whatever. Same for rocket vendors. If any of them want their name on the project, they will need to pay for it either by donating parts, motors, or cover shipping. If necessary I could even have the Wanderer rerouted to a vendor if they wanted to toss in some motors. Exception is TRF. As I have mentioned before I have no problem with a TRF sticker on the box or rocket or whatever. We are using the forum, some of us for free, to organize this project. Without TRF the project wouldn't be happening. If you don't agree chime in and we can discuss it.
I made up a spreadsheet on an old version of Excel and it is on the thumbdrive. It needs updated and I may not get to it as it has to be done on my old desktop. I did upload it to Google and some stuff worked well, others didn't. I will post a link so ya'll can look at it.

Everyone having a separate folder is a good idea. That should be simple enough for everyone and keep it clean. I can get that done pretty quickly. As Hosts join, they will need to create their own directory or, for those who only know Windows, folder. LOL

Here is the spreadsheet. It is set to view only and I am the only one who can edit it. I will need everyone's email so I can add you to the list so that you can edit it.
------The Wanderer Flight Log -------
Every persons name is linked to their respective sheet.
The main page should automatically populate and sum the totals when you enter you data on your sheet.
You can do whatever you want to your sheet, just don't move any of the original data fields as it will break the main page and I shouldn't have to say it but don't fool with anyone else's sheet. Add pictures, links, whatever. I'm not familiar with Google sheets so I don't know what all is possible.

@tsmith1315
I can't edit the OP. I have asked the admins and it's a no go. I can put a link in my signature, though not everyone sees signatures, and there will be a shortcut on the thumbdrive. Maybe even a QR code in the box.

I got the lugs mounted today and a color coat on the nose cone. Nose and fins will be blue, body will be white. Should get the color coat on the body tomorrow if the lug fillets don't need much work.
 
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shawn_rocket

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Yes, the next Host will be contacted via PM when they are on deck as well as tagged just to keep things in the open and PMs get difficul to juggle at times. But good point on notifications.

And I think we are thinking pretty much the same thing. You just laid it out better.

I don't really expect a problem as only one person hasn't responded to one of my PMs but I see they are active on the thread. I just tag folks when I need to get someone's attention or reply without a quote.

@Tobor
I can probably make some stickers with my CriCut. I'll look at it and see. I'm kinda weird in that if I am going to display a logo or company name or some such, then the company will provide me with the means to display it. Be it a shirt, hat, or sticker. Yeah, weird.

I am permitted to use the TRF logo, not required. It's not something that will hold up the project. Nothing negative towards TRF or the admins here. You can slap one on the box when it gets to you if you want.
I have 2 stickers. I can put on one the rocket when it gets here. Just let me know where it should be placed.
 
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