Tragedy in Vegas

[bobby_hamill]

My prayers and sincere condolences go out to the victims in the Las Vegas shooting
50 fatalitys 200 hurting

Bobby

 

[RocketFeller]

I believe that the shooting in Florida last year killed 49. This guy just had to one-up it. Sad...


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

 

[K'Tesh]

Praying for all those who were hurt, killed, or were somehow affected by this senseless act of violence.

Praying for Las Vegas.

 

[Sooner Boomer]

From what I've seen on TV, it sounded like this was an actual full-auto weapon. It's incredible rare that a legally owned one is used in a crime.
Thoughts and prayers to all those involved and their families. Really, really sad.

 

[LW Bercini]

I apologize in advance if what I am about to say leads to getting this thread locked.

But DAMMIT, I am so tired of reading about crap like this happening! When is there going to be some EFFECTIVE dialog about curtailing American-on-American gun violence???

 

[DavidMcCann]

I apologize in advance if what I am about to say leads to getting this thread locked.

But DAMMIT, I am so tired of reading about crap like this happening! When is there going to be some EFFECTIVE dialog about curtailing American-on-American gun violence???

[h=3]Number of deaths for leading causes of death:[/h]

• Heart disease: 633,842
• Cancer: 595,930
• Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 155,041
• Accidents (unintentional injuries): 146,571
• Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 140,323
• Alzheimer’s disease: 110,561
• Diabetes: 79,535
• Influenza and Pneumonia: 57,062
• Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 49,959
• Intentional self-harm (suicide): 44,193

[h=3]All unintentional injury deaths[/h]

• Number of deaths: 135,928
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 42.6
• Cause of death rank: 4

[h=3]Unintentional fall deaths[/h]

• Number of deaths: 31,959
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.0

[h=3]Motor vehicle traffic deaths[/h]

• Number of deaths: 33,736
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 10.6

[h=3]Unintentional poisoning deaths[/h]

• Number of deaths: 42,032
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 13.2

Source: Deaths: Final Data for 2014, tables 9, 18[PDF – 5.4 MB]

• From 1999 through 2010, a total of 46,419 deaths from unintentional drowning (including boating) occurred in the United States, an average of 3,868 deaths per year.
• Drowning death rates decreased over time for all age groups except for adults aged 45–84.
• The average daily number of deaths from unintentional drowning on a weekend day was 48% higher than that on a weekday (13.8 versus 9.3 deaths).
• Since 2005, unintentional drowning has replaced motor vehicle traffic incidents as the leading cause of death from unintentional injury for boys aged 1–4 years.
• Drowning occurred most often in a bath tub for persons under 1 year of age and for adults aged 85 and over, in a swimming pool for children aged 1–4 years, and in natural water for persons aged 5–84 years.

---


All the above is from the CDC.

Yes, gun violence is an issue. It's not anywhere close to being our biggest issue. I don't see rage and T-shirts and people protesting backyard pools, But it's more likely your kid will die in one than a mass shooting....

 

[KidRockET]

I apologize in advance if what I am about to say leads to getting this thread locked.

But DAMMIT, I am so tired of reading about crap like this happening! When is there going to be some EFFECTIVE dialog about curtailing American-on-American gun violence???

Agreed...

Let's start in Chicago...

 

[dr wogz]

sorry..

Compare US gun fatalities to other countries.. And what do the numbers show? We can all spin this different ways to support an argument..

How does one get 10 firearms into a hotel room?!


-------------

I was shocked as I drove in this morning, hearing the news of this horrific tragedy. Deepest sorry & sympathies for the victims, the families, and the general LV population.

 

[LW Bercini]

Number of deaths for leading causes of death:
Source: Deaths: Final Data for 2014, tables 9, 18[PDF – 5.4 MB]

Yes. And your chance of getting struck by lightning is small too. But they still close the rocket range when it thunders

 

[Onebadhawk]

My prayers go out to the Vegas tragedy...

Teddy

 

[KidRockET]

Yes. And your chance of getting struck by lightning is small too. But they still close the rocket range when it thunders

What is your proposal...

 

[DavidMcCann]

What is your proposal...

If we eliminate all guns, people will stop being crazy and wanting to kill people. Duh.

 

[DavidMcCann]

How does one get 10 firearms into a hotel room?!

Elevator.

 

[KidRockET]

If we eliminate all guns, people will stop being crazy and wanting to kill people. Duh.

We will have to...

Ban lightning as well...

 

[DavidMcCann]

We will have to...

Ban lightning as well...

Hop in here...we'll keep you safe...

 

[Mushtang]

I apologize in advance if what I am about to say leads to getting this thread locked.

But DAMMIT, I am so tired of reading about crap like this happening! When is there going to be some EFFECTIVE dialog about curtailing American-on-American gun violence???

I'm not sure what else could be done.

There are existing laws that make it illegal to own the fully automatic guns it sounds like this guy had.
There are existing laws that make it illegal to sell the fully automatic guns it sounds like this guy had.
There are existing laws that make it illegal to fire any weapons from the place this guy shot from.
There are existing laws that make it illegal to kill the people that this guy killed.
There are existing laws that make it illegal to do quite a lot of things that mentally ill mass murders are willing and able to do.

Take a way guns from all citizens to keep a very small number of crazy people from getting them? No. Thankfully the 2nd amendment will keep that from happening.

Make it too difficult for a crazy person to get a fully automatic rifle? We've seen others resort to driving trucks into large crowds, 168 were killed when Timothy McVeigh blew up a building with fertilizer, and thousands were killed on 9/11 with box cutters.

Limiting guns will not stop gun deaths, nor will it stop mass killings. The existence of guns is not the problem.

 

[LW Bercini]

What is your proposal...

I personally don't have a proposal - I am one man with limited information. But if you look at my original post on this topic, what I yearn for is a effective dialog. But before we can get there, I think there needs to be some decent analysis done. Get some facts and data!

Here is a snippet of what I just wrote on Facebook:

"Nobody says it is simple. Complex issues require complex analysis. Analysis requires collecting facts and assessing the data in a non-confrontational, non-political manner. Apply scientific root cause analysis!!!"

 

[LW Bercini]

Limiting guns will not stop gun deaths, nor will it stop mass killings. The existence of guns is not the problem.

How curious that you immediately went there, given there is nothing in my comment that suggests anything like that.

 

[KidRockET]

This happens routinely...

In Chicago on any given weekend...

And nary a peep...

90 killed in August this year alone...

All of this in a "Gun-Free-Zone"...

We clearly need more laws...

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/13-shot-5-fatally-in-first-3-hours-of-weekend/

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-chicago-homicides-august-20160901-story.html

 

[GrouchoDuke]

We were safely at our home in Vegas last night. We started a "check in" thread on our Tripoli Vegas group. So far, we haven't heard of any rocket folks that were there.

Definitely crazy stuff.

 

[Peartree]

Okay folks, I know that many of us have strong feelings about many of the issues surrounding this. We've hashed them out (or at least hashed at them) before. Please don't make this thread an argument about gun control. The history of this forum says that once that happens, less than a page later someone will become less than civil, or will otherwise break forum rules in such a way that the entire thread is locked or deleted.

This MAY be a thread about the events in Las Vegas.

This MAY NOT be a political thread about gun control.

Your friendly neighborhood moderator...

 

[Gary Byrum]

I'm not sure what else could be done. The existence of guns is not the problem.

You're right. People snap. They live day to day with everything that bothers, angers, frustrates & worries them, bottled up inside until they’re about to explode. Then all it takes is some small issue that “pops their balloon” (if you will) and all hell breaks loose. If you have ever seen someone go off at you, or anyone else for that matter, for no apparent reason, it’s very likely you have already seen it. Count your blessings while you’re at it. They could have had a gun.

They must have put something in the water again.

 

[Mushtang]

How curious that you immediately went there, given there is nothing in my comment that suggests anything like that.

Clearly I focused on guns because the guy last night in Vegas was using a gun.

How curious that you edited my post to remove all my mentions of other weaponry that have been used in mass killings to make it seem like I only mention guns.

 

[Peartree]

Last warning. Any further posts regarding gun control or second amendment rights will result in this thread being locked.

 

[georgegassaway]

"Now is not the time to talk abut gun control"

Say time and again the political cowards in Washington as an excuse to try to avoid EVER TALKING ABOUT IT.

But if Sandy Hook didn't do it, apparently NOTHING will.

Yeah, let's sell MACHINE GUNS to civilians. THAT MAKES SENSE.

[video=youtube;gIteeiT9Y94]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIteeiT9Y94[/video]

[video=youtube;jitRBo6Eb2M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jitRBo6Eb2M[/video]

 

[ttabbal]

Apply scientific root cause analysis!!!"

Here's the thing though... I doubt there is a single root cause, or even just a few. By all means, do the research! But these sorts of issues are often not all that related. There are some similar thoughts, perhaps, but even in the few events where we have the perpetrator alive and in prison, reasons vary. I don't see any reason that should be different for those that kill themselves or are otherwise killed during their crimes. I suspect that what we would find is that it's not useful to apply logic to the insane. However, that doesn't mean I'm right or we shouldn't try.

Even if we can't address the root cause(s), perhaps something like this would be a start? https://nonadventures.com/2015/06/20/the-some-of-all-fears/

At the very least, we wouldn't be giving them and their platform so much free advertising as a result of their heinous actions. It won't happen though, the news people get too many eyeballs when they air it.


History has also shown us that the knee-jerk legislative reactions that will surely be forthcoming don't work. I doubt that will slow down the various groups pushing for more laws, but it's doubling down on a method that doesn't work, and likely cannot work. I mean, if you are contemplating mass murder, is one more life sentence going to deter you? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results isn't helpful. Sadly, the groups involved will go there anyway, wasting a ton of time/effort/money on all sides, while achieving nothing. The hyperpolarization of the false dichotomy of US politics is a hinderance rather than a help. Hopefully enough people will figure that out to stop the cycle.

 

[Nytrunner]

Before its too late, calls for blood donations are going out.

If you're a healthy individual with clean blood, that is an immediate need that can be helped by you. (For Vegas and other places around the country)

 

[LW Bercini]

Clearly I focused on guns because the guy last night in Vegas was using a gun.

How curious that you edited my post to remove all my mentions of other weaponry that have been used in mass killings to make it seem like I only mention guns.

Rather than include your entire post, for brevity, I included only your summary statement. Summary statements typically encapsulate the core point of an argument - at least that is what my English teachers told me.

 

[Sparky]

In honor of the tragedy of last night in Nevada.

 

[Bat-mite]

My grief and prayers to the families and friends of the victims.

Richard Dawkins had an interesting response.